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12/28/2009 07:46:07 PM · #376 |
paid for by the "Centrist Party"......enough said about that debunk!
Message edited by author 2009-12-28 19:51:46. |
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12/28/2009 09:20:26 PM · #377 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
paid for by the "Centrist Party"......enough said about that debunk! |
?? It's just a name, chosen to imply "the majority of normal people." If it makes you happy, pretend it says Extremely Conservative Party. The facts won't magically change. |
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01/06/2010 07:36:14 PM · #378 |
Baby, It Is Cold Outside
I have been reading several arguments throughout the net regarding how cold it is this winter here in the USA. I found this article to be useful. |
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01/06/2010 10:43:13 PM · #379 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by David Ey:
paid for by the "Centrist Party"......enough said about that debunk! |
?? It's just a name, chosen to imply "the majority of normal people." If it makes you happy, pretend it says Extremely Conservative Party. The facts won't magically change. |
Note: the centrist party is a single guy.
So a guy disagrees with another guy, posts it on the internet, and you call it debunked?
I debunk your debunk. |
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01/07/2010 01:06:40 AM · #380 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
So a guy disagrees with another guy, posts it on the internet, and you call it debunked? |
It's debunked by content, not author. Weather is not climate, and John Coleman is simply not qualified in this subject at all. It's like an orthodontist who writes an article denying a report on the age of an allosaurus tooth. Sure, both scientists deal with teeth, but in VERY different areas of expertise. |
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01/07/2010 09:40:51 AM · #381 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
So a guy disagrees with another guy, posts it on the internet, and you call it debunked? |
It's debunked by content, not author. Weather is not climate, and John Coleman is simply not qualified in this subject at all. It's like an orthodontist who writes an article denying a report on the age of an allosaurus tooth. Sure, both scientists deal with teeth, but in VERY different areas of expertise. |
Quoting/linking think progress or the centrist party is worse then quoting/linking fox news. I'm sure I can find several links that say global warming is all a sham, but just like you posting left wing links, it would be a waste of time.
I do love how you discredit a supposed biased source with a clearly biased source though. NICE! |
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01/07/2010 10:32:37 AM · #382 |
Originally posted by njsabs:
Baby, It Is Cold Outside
I have been reading several arguments throughout the net regarding how cold it is this winter here in the USA. I found this article to be useful. |
I've lost count of the number of people who, because of cold weather, have rolled their eyes and said "... so much for global warming." *sigh*
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01/11/2010 02:15:18 PM · #383 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by njsabs:
Baby, It Is Cold Outside
I have been reading several arguments throughout the net regarding how cold it is this winter here in the USA. I found this article to be useful. |
I've lost count of the number of people who, because of cold weather, have rolled their eyes and said "... so much for global warming." *sigh* |
How about a UN Climate Scientist?
"America is caught in an icy grip that one of the U.N.'s top global warming proponents says could mark the beginning of a mini ice age."
"Oranges are freezing and millions of tropical fish are dying in Florida, and it could be just the beginning of a decades-long deep freeze, says Professor Mojib Latif, one of the world's leading climate modelers."
"According to the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center in Colorado, the warming of the Earth since 1900 is due to natural oceanic cycles, and not man-made greenhouse gases."
article - beware it is from the evil FOX site |
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01/11/2010 02:59:33 PM · #384 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I do love how you discredit a supposed biased source with a clearly biased source though. NICE! |
Biased in what way... by actually knowing facts? As an example, Coleman's inference that catalytic converters reduce CO2 emissions is just plain wrong. Different sources don't change this fact.
Originally posted by Flash:
How about a UN Climate Scientist? ...Professor Mojib Latif, one of the world's leading climate modelers. |
You're misquoting him, badly. Latif is saying that even warming trends experience fluctuations that could include cooler periods (this is hardly news), but it's still a warming trend and still significantly influenced by humans. Article- beware, it's from Latif himself.
Message edited by author 2010-01-11 15:03:11. |
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01/11/2010 03:08:01 PM · #385 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
How about a UN Climate Scientist? ...Professor Mojib Latif, one of the world's leading climate modelers. |
You're misquoting him, badly. Latif is saying that even warming trends experience fluctuations that could include cooler periods (this is hardly news), but it's still a warming trend and still significantly influenced by humans. Article- beware, it's from Latif himself. |
The Fox article said that Latif's position was that this interim mini-iceage was a short diversion from the larger global warming trend and that Global Warming would continue despite the next few decades of cooling. The point however was that this followed patterns, and cycles, and historic movements - NOT man made impact.
"Latif, a professor at the Leibniz Institute at Germany's Kiel University and an author of the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report, believes the lengthy cold weather is merely a pause -- a 30-years-long blip -- in the larger cycle of global warming, which postulates that temperatures will rise rapidly over the coming years. "
"At a U.N. conference in September, Latif said that changes in ocean currents known as the North Atlantic Oscillation could dominate over manmade global warming for the next few decades. Latif said the fluctuations in these currents could also be responsible for much of the rise in global temperatures seen over the past 30 years. "
Ocean currents = Hotter + cooler
Message edited by author 2010-01-11 15:14:39. |
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01/11/2010 03:38:05 PM · #386 |
Originally posted by Flash:
The point however was that this followed patterns, and cycles, and historic movements - NOT man made impact. |
Wrong. He's talking about short term changes there, not global warming.
NPR: Now, your research, Dr. Latif, has been cited by climate change skeptics here in the U.S., by for example, George Will, a conservative columnist with the Washington Post, to show that the Earth actually goes through natural warming and cooling trends and that climate change is really being overhyped. Do you think your work is being misused?
Dr. LATIF: Yes. It is misused. I must say this, unfortunately, because these changes we are talking about, these short-term changes, you know, their amplitudes are much smaller than the long-term warming trends.
Over the next 2-3 decades, Latif expects the climate to warm "maybe .2 or .3 degrees, but it may accelerate thereafter. So it basically depends on, you know, how we behave during the next decades, right? So if we emit - or if we continue to emit these greenhouse gases at the present rate, you know, then the warming trend will be faster." Latif's position on mad-made warming is crystal clear. Furthermore, the "mini-Ice Age" headline is an outright fabrication. Latif said nothing of the sort— predicting only a slowdown in the inexorable warming trend that we've caused. He explains it himself. |
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01/12/2010 06:54:37 AM · #387 |
| "Latif said the fluctuations in these currents could also be responsible for much of the rise in global temperatures seen over the past 30 years. " |
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01/12/2010 07:07:11 AM · #388 |
Originally posted by Flash:
"Latif said the fluctuations in these currents could also be responsible for much of the rise in global temperatures seen over the past 30 years. " |
I will work on the assumption that you didn't read Scalvert's post in its' entirety nor the link he posted.
Ray |
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01/12/2010 08:16:57 AM · #389 |
Originally posted by njsabs:
Baby, It Is Cold Outside
I have been reading several arguments throughout the net regarding how cold it is this winter here in the USA. I found this article to be useful. |
Originally posted by citymars:
I've lost count of the number of people who, because of cold weather, have rolled their eyes and said "... so much for global warming." *sigh* |
There are those of us naive types out here who do have some issues understanding how with Chicken Little out there screaming about global warming how this last year of record colder temperatures and rainfall are reconciled.
In all my 54 years, I never remember mowing straight through the summer because it was so temperate that the grass didn't stop growing like it has in mid-July my entire life.
What does it mean when we rack in weeks of record low temps? How does that coincide with the theory? How does one of the coldest winters, and the most temperate summer in a half century, all in the same year, correlate with the global warming theory?
I'm not saying this cancels out any theories, I'm just curious as to how it doesn't throw a wrench into it.
Message edited by author 2010-01-12 08:19:32.
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01/12/2010 08:21:33 AM · #390 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
What does it mean when we rack in weeks of record low temps? How does that coincide with the theory? How does one of the coldest winters, and the most temperate summer in a half century, all in the same year, correlate with the global warming theory?
I'm not saying this cancels out any theories, I'm just curious as to how it doesn't throw a wrench into it. |
Pennsylvania isn't the globe (nor even the entire U.S. and Europe). While we're experiencing unusual cold, Australia and the poles are seeing unusual heat, and the trend of global averages has been warmer.
Another factor (and this is just speculation on my part) is that as the Arctic rapidly melts, some of that cold is transferred south... sort of like dumping truckloads of ice cubes in a river. I noticed last week when the Midwest was well below zero that Anchorage, AK was getting rain.
Message edited by author 2010-01-12 08:46:42. |
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01/12/2010 09:13:49 AM · #391 |
Great strategy! State that it's going to cool the next 20-30 years and it's not related to global warming.
See, this way if it cools they are right, if it stays the same they can say it is only because global warming is fighting the cooling trend, and if it actually warms, they can say global warming is fighting the cooling trend and winning. This allows them to scare monger the next 30 years even if it cools.
Brilliant!
I'm just wondering, how many years of cooling or non warming do we need before faces start getting red and people admit that maybe it's not all our fault? Doubtful, they will wait 30 years until this cooling trend ends, then say their policies ended global warming and claim victory. |
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01/12/2010 09:15:40 AM · #392 |
I have a question for the climate change skeptics.
I have read a few papers that propose straightforward and relatively cheap ($1-2bn) ways of reversing the impact of global warming. For example, we could mimic mega-volcanic activity by pumping similar gasses into the right part of the atmosphere to cause a proven and controllable cooling effect.
If the "fix" for climate change did not rely upon the reduction of CO2 emissions, would this affect your views on whether climate change is something that needs to be tackled?
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01/12/2010 09:39:34 AM · #393 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Great strategy! State that it's going to cool the next 20-30 years and it's not related to global warming. |
Who stated that? |
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01/12/2010 02:01:41 PM · #394 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Great strategy! State that it's going to cool the next 20-30 years and it's not related to global warming. |
Who stated that? |
Mojib Latif did.
From: //www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html#ixzz0cPzPSHPF
Last night he told The Mail on Sunday: ‘A significant share of the warming we saw from 1980 to 2000 and at earlier periods in the 20th Century was due to these cycles – perhaps as much as 50 per cent.
'They have now gone into reverse, so winters like this one will become much more likely. Summers will also probably be cooler, and all this may well last two decades or longer.
‘The extreme retreats that we have seen in glaciers and sea ice will come to a halt. For the time being, global warming has paused, and there may well be some cooling.’
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01/12/2010 02:08:30 PM · #395 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Mojib Latif did. |
I'm not always up on the latest, but I definitely remember a front-page news story about a scientist some years back saying that global warming could (or would, in his prediction) also cause more severe winters. This was 15-20 years or ago. |
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01/12/2010 02:16:28 PM · #396 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I have a question for the climate change skeptics.
I have read a few papers that propose straightforward and relatively cheap ($1-2bn) ways of reversing the impact of global warming. For example, we could mimic mega-volcanic activity by pumping similar gasses into the right part of the atmosphere to cause a proven and controllable cooling effect.
If the "fix" for climate change did not rely upon the reduction of CO2 emissions, would this affect your views on whether climate change is something that needs to be tackled? |
If the fix was cheap, harmless and easy I would not argue against it, even though I'm not sure it needs to be fixed and it would be a waste. If it makes people happy and ends the discussion I'd be happy.
However, I seen some of those proposed solutions and they scare me. I'd hate to see us create an ice age. mother nature does not like to be messed with, messing with her more may not be the answer?
PS I don't oppose reducing CO2, I think it's a good idea. I just don't want to see it mandated, and I don't like the costs often associated with it. Plus, I like eating meat and I love my dogs. |
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01/12/2010 02:30:54 PM · #397 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Great strategy! State that it's going to cool the next 20-30 years and it's not related to global warming. |
Who stated that? |
Mojib Latif did... |
Bzzzzt. Latif said cooling in the Atlantic and Pacific (particularly the North Atlantic) may offset global warming for a decade so that there may be not much of an additional warming. He did NOT say the global climate would be cooler. Latif— "we are talking about a hold, okay, in the last 10 years. We are not talking about a net cooling... and also what we predicted for the future is basically that this hold may continue for another 10 years or so, okay, but we did not predict a cooling. We basically said that we would stay for some more years on this plateau... It is a forecast, but as I pointed out, we do not have much skill at longer lead times. It may well be that the warming will be even stronger." |
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01/12/2010 02:36:38 PM · #398 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I'd hate to see us create an ice age. mother nature does not like to be messed with, messing with her more may not be the answer? |
Wait... so you don't think pumping billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere is contributing to global warming, but you're afraid that reducing that output could result in an Ice Age?!? |
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01/12/2010 05:18:37 PM · #399 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I'd hate to see us create an ice age. mother nature does not like to be messed with, messing with her more may not be the answer? |
Wait... so you don't think pumping billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere is contributing to global warming, but you're afraid that reducing that output could result in an Ice Age?!? |
I thought you were smarter then that. My bad. The ice age thing was what is called an extreem example. |
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01/12/2010 05:26:46 PM · #400 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Great strategy! State that it's going to cool the next 20-30 years and it's not related to global warming. |
Who stated that? |
Mojib Latif did... |
Bzzzzt. Latif said cooling in the Atlantic and Pacific (particularly the North Atlantic) may offset global warming for a decade so that there may be not much of an additional warming. He did NOT say the global climate would be cooler. Latif— "we are talking about a hold, okay, in the last 10 years. We are not talking about a net cooling... and also what we predicted for the future is basically that this hold may continue for another 10 years or so, okay, but we did not predict a cooling. We basically said that we would stay for some more years on this plateau... It is a forecast, but as I pointed out, we do not have much skill at longer lead times. It may well be that the warming will be even stronger." |
Argue with the daily mail, not me. They quoted him saying 20+ years of cooling.
Prof Anastasios Tsonis, head of the University of Wisconsin Atmospheric Sciences Group, also said it in that article,
'We have such a change now and can therefore expect 20 or 30 years of cooler temperatures.̢۪
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