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12/14/2009 03:28:44 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by dmadden:
As a non U.S. citizen and I would never ever take a camera with me on trips to the states. My first fear would be ending up in a situation like this. Me being a black tourist with a camera in hand and a non-u.s. citizen. You could'nt pay me enough to photograph anything.
When I visit, I go straight to the malls and restaurants. If it was'nt for the shopping, I would'nt visit. Period!!!
I however would not visit europe, because I fear the same level of harassment and the shopping is'nt good there :) |
Sorry but that's just stereotyping Americans as anti photographer. If you read closely all the stories about cops asking photographers questions on why they're shooting and where, it's mostly the arrogant photographer that makes things worse for him by starting to state his rights and claiming the police don't have a right to ask him questions, etc. It's the police's job to ask you questions about why you're shooting a federal government building or a museum where hundreds of people can be at the same time. It's your security they're looking after, after all.
Looks like you're going to spend most of your life in your living room afraid of Americans and now, Europeans. ;\
I hear that if you go to Jamaica you're hassled by people selling ganja incessantly and when some people do end up buying some, those same pot sellers alert the police and they come and arrest you and steal your pot and money. I guess that's what you get in a country where everyone smokes pot.
Message edited by author 2009-12-14 15:32:25. |
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12/14/2009 03:42:00 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by dmadden:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by dmadden:
As a non U.S. citizen and I would never ever take a camera with me on trips to the states. My first fear would be ending up in a situation like this. Me being a black tourist with a camera in hand and a non-u.s. citizen. You could'nt pay me enough to photograph anything.
When I visit, I go straight to the malls and restaurants. If it was'nt for the shopping, I would'nt visit. Period!!!
I however would not visit europe, because I fear the same level of harassment and the shopping is'nt good there :) |
Come on up here Dave and bring your camera. I'm pretty sure that you won't stick out at all. Then I wanna come to Jamaica. |
Where u located spazmo? Anyone is welcome here anytime, I'll happily show you around. I'd really love to tour europe and photograph lots of places, but I cant seem to shake this concern no matter how hard I try. Sounds silly I know, but just the way I feel. |
I'm in Michigan...with the gloomy cold here, I could use some sunshine... You should come in Spring or Fall tho. |
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12/14/2009 03:47:25 PM · #28 |
| I just read the article linked in the OP (From the US) and while it was enough to get the blood warmed up, the comments following the article are pretty amazing as well. Talk about having to "bite your tongue". I'd love to respond to some of those, but it's most certainly a waste of time and energy. |
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12/14/2009 03:47:32 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Jac:
If you read closely all the stories about cops asking photographers questions on why they're shooting and where, it's mostly the arrogant photographer that makes things worse for him by starting to state his rights and claiming the police don't have a right to ask him questions, etc. |
Dear me, have you actually read these stories jac? Or the information regarding what rights the photographer has and what rights the police have? Not sure what stories you've been reading but the ones generally referred to in these threads are not about people complaining that the police have been asking them questions.
Originally posted by Jac:
I hear that if you go to Jamaica you're hassled by people selling ganja incessantly and when some people do end up buying some, those same pot sellers alert the police and they come and arrest you and steal your pot and money. I guess that's what you get in a country where everyone smokes pot. |
This is irony i take it. ;)
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12/14/2009 03:48:40 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Sorry but that's just stereotyping Americans as anti photographer. If you read closely all the stories about cops asking photographers questions on why they're shooting and where, it's mostly the arrogant photographer that makes things worse for him by starting to state his rights and claiming the police don't have a right to ask him questions, etc. It's the police's job to ask you questions about why you're shooting a federal government building or a museum where hundreds of people can be at the same time. It's your security they're looking after, after all.
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My experience in Dallas wasn't like that at all, I was shooting on a public sidewalk and the police came up to me and the first thing out of his mouth was, "Stop taking pictures" when I asked why, I was told, "Leave now or I'm going to arrest you." There was no "Who are you?" or "What are you doing?" or any of that.
As far as looking after security, they're free to do that without violating my rights. |
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12/14/2009 04:09:45 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
My experience in Dallas wasn't like that at all, I was shooting on a public sidewalk and the police came up to me and the first thing out of his mouth was, "Stop taking pictures" when I asked why, I was told, "Leave now or I'm going to arrest you." There was no "Who are you?" or "What are you doing?" or any of that.
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Wow, what asses. What were you near? Federal bldg. etc? Were these official Dallas police officers? Interesting that they didn't want to ID you. That is very strange. |
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12/14/2009 04:18:12 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I hear that if you go to Jamaica you're hassled by people selling ganja incessantly and when some people do end up buying some, those same pot sellers alert the police and they come and arrest you and steal your pot and money. I guess that's what you get in a country where everyone smokes pot. |
HAHAHAH LMAO For the record, I have never and dont smoke pot.
But It does sound to me like your sharing a personal experience. So on behalf of all Jamaicans, I apologise to you for the loss of your money. And your "pot" :D |
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12/14/2009 05:00:21 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by dmadden:
Originally posted by Jac:
I hear that if you go to Jamaica you're hassled by people selling ganja incessantly and when some people do end up buying some, those same pot sellers alert the police and they come and arrest you and steal your pot and money. I guess that's what you get in a country where everyone smokes pot. |
HAHAHAH LMAO For the record, I have never and dont smoke pot.
But It does sound to me like your sharing a personal experience. So on behalf of all Jamaicans, I apologise to you for the loss of your money. And your "pot" :D |
Never been to Jamaica. I posted that to emphasize the fact that you're reacting to blown out stories about very isolated incidences that seem to be picked up by just about any newspaper/tabloid just because the headlines attract newspaper buying people.
My post was just to show you how stories get blown out of proportion. I never heard that about Jamaica actually. When I heard it, Mexico was used as the bad country.
There are bad cops everywhere, not only in the US. There are arrogant photographers everywhere too. :)
Clive, read Melethia's US story in this post. I know this is one story but most of the American ones I have read all sound like the one in Melethia's post. Cops doing their jobs, photographers getting all righteous about being able to photograph what they like, sorry but that isn't the case anymore. This is post 911 folks, paranoiaville. And I'm all for it for everyone's safety. When I see a cop come towards me to ask questions, I answer them and move on without a hitch. Most of the time I get permission to continue what I was doing after they see I'm just a photographer.
Message edited by author 2009-12-14 17:23:25. |
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12/14/2009 05:20:24 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
My experience in Dallas wasn't like that at all, I was shooting on a public sidewalk and the police came up to me and the first thing out of his mouth was, "Stop taking pictures" when I asked why, I was told, "Leave now or I'm going to arrest you." There was no "Who are you?" or "What are you doing?" or any of that.
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Wow, what asses. What were you near? Federal bldg. etc? Were these official Dallas police officers? Interesting that they didn't want to ID you. That is very strange. |
It's a famous building in downtown Dallas, I was across the street on the sidewalk. And yes, they were Dallas P.D. |
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12/14/2009 05:29:58 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Clive, read Melethia's US story in her post named We Are Not Terrorists. I know this is one story but most of the American ones I have read all sound like the one in Melethia's post. Cops doing their jobs, photographers getting all righteous about being able to photograph what they like, sorry but that isn't the case anymore. This is post 911 folks, paranoiaville. And I'm all for it for everyone's safety. When I see a cop come towards me to ask questions, I answer them and move on without a hitch. Most of the time I get permission to continue what I was doing after they see I'm just a photographer. |
Melethia's US story seems to be more about someone complaining/worried that he was taking photos of kids so it's a slightly different thing (although the whole peodophile-mania and paranoia that has been growing in the UK (not sure about the US) the last couple of decades is a worrying social trend and detrimental to photography i feel). Most of the other stories from the UK are about the police misusing anti-terror laws to stop, search and move on people when they have every right to be there and take photographs. I take your point about post 911 paranoia but i can't agree with you that that is a good thing. I find it abhorrent that so many civil rights and liberties have been reduced in the name of the so called 'war on terror' with 'anti-terror' legislation. Just my 2p on the subject. |
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12/14/2009 06:30:10 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by FireBird:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
My experience in Dallas wasn't like that at all, I was shooting on a public sidewalk and the police came up to me and the first thing out of his mouth was, "Stop taking pictures" when I asked why, I was told, "Leave now or I'm going to arrest you." There was no "Who are you?" or "What are you doing?" or any of that.
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Wow, what asses. What were you near? Federal bldg. etc? Were these official Dallas police officers? Interesting that they didn't want to ID you. That is very strange. |
It's a famous building in downtown Dallas, I was across the street on the sidewalk. And yes, they were Dallas P.D. |
If I was brave enough at the time to use it, it's the reason why I carry the Photographer's Bill of Rights. I agree with you though, there are many times it's all attitude and no discussion that comes your way. What are you going to do? The cop is obviously not following the rules so there is no telling what his next step is. Is it worth tempting fate?
Were you using a tripod or something else? Every once in a while the cop probably has a legit (or at least semi-legit) reason for doing what they are doing. Not all sidewalks, for example, at the PPG building in Pittsburgh are public. As another example, taking pictures on the property of the federal courthouse here in Eugene is prohibited by court order. Blah blah blah. Anyway, I extend some commisseration with the lame-o cop. That can be quite scary sometimes.
Message edited by author 2009-12-14 18:36:24. |
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12/14/2009 06:38:11 PM · #37 |
I carry several copies of the Photographer's Bill of Rights in my camera bag. However, I have yet to come to an honest confrontation where they would have proved to be worth pulling out.
Most times people are being pricks, and if you pull this out you instantly become the prick. Some people will not believe its legit anyway. Though I will confront the officers who question me. I will ask if where I am is indeed a public place as I assumed it was. That is an honest question that gets the point across to the officers that you know your rights. There is nothing threatening in that question unless it is in the manner in which you ask it.
I have had harbor patrol tell me yes it is a public place and yes I had every right to be there. However... blah blah bitchy bitchy people I should move on. So I packed my gear and headed out. I don't need the drama and I was not shooting for anything other than myself anyway. The crap is not worth the shot in my opinion. No shot is. Not even a once in a lifetime opportunity shot is worth the drama and crap these stupid jerkoffs ruin. Because by the time you 'fight' for your right to be there to photograph you missed the opp anyway.
If its meant to be, it will be.
Me, I error on the side that everyone is an asshole, because I have run into way too many to think other.
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12/14/2009 07:48:24 PM · #38 |
imagine being a cop these days, never knowing if someone is going to pull a gun on you or go ballistic cause you asked them a simple question. I mean its not like your average teenager is trying to join Al Qaida.......oh wait never mind. give it a rest, the guy is doing his job, obviously there is something that got his attention in the way you were behaving(say tying to be inconspicuious while finding your street photos entry) that tweaked their training, right or wrong its their job, you can either be reasonable and honest and polite to them or you canbe an idiot, I frankly think most of them are trying to do the best they can and like most humans they occasionally make a mistake. give them a break.
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12/14/2009 07:57:16 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by jhomrighaus:
imagine being a cop these days, never knowing if someone is going to pull a gun on you or go ballistic cause you asked them a simple question. I mean its not like your average teenager is trying to join Al Qaida.......oh wait never mind. give it a rest, the guy is doing his job, obviously there is something that got his attention in the way you were behaving(say tying to be inconspicuious while finding your street photos entry) that tweaked their training, right or wrong its their job, you can either be reasonable and honest and polite to them or you canbe an idiot, I frankly think most of them are trying to do the best they can and like most humans they occasionally make a mistake. give them a break. |
Amen. |
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12/14/2009 08:15:34 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by jhomrighaus:
imagine being a cop these days, never knowing if someone is going to pull a gun on you or go ballistic cause you asked them a simple question. I mean its not like your average teenager is trying to join Al Qaida.......oh wait never mind. give it a rest, the guy is doing his job, obviously there is something that got his attention in the way you were behaving(say tying to be inconspicuious while finding your street photos entry) that tweaked their training, right or wrong its their job, you can either be reasonable and honest and polite to them or you canbe an idiot, I frankly think most of them are trying to do the best they can and like most humans they occasionally make a mistake. give them a break. |
Who is gonna give me the break huh?
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12/14/2009 08:52:49 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by jhomrighaus:
imagine being a cop these days, never knowing if someone is going to pull a gun on you or go ballistic cause you asked them a simple question. I mean its not like your average teenager is trying to join Al Qaida.......oh wait never mind. give it a rest, the guy is doing his job, obviously there is something that got his attention in the way you were behaving(say tying to be inconspicuious while finding your street photos entry) that tweaked their training, right or wrong its their job, you can either be reasonable and honest and polite to them or you canbe an idiot, I frankly think most of them are trying to do the best they can and like most humans they occasionally make a mistake. give them a break. |
Who is gonna give me the break huh? |
Or who will give me a break for that matter, at least your an American with rights. As Jac said, I'm just a pot smoking Jamaican. Imagine the 3rd world pothead being where I'm not supposed to be camera in hand. You actually think I can dare tell the authorities about bill of rights? |
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12/14/2009 08:56:58 PM · #42 |
...
Message edited by author 2009-12-15 16:13:31.
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12/14/2009 09:44:03 PM · #43 |
How is some poor cop, that is just trying to do his or her job, supposed to discern between the innocent photographer just trying to take some pictures and this;
//www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580223,00.html
without asking a few questions?
And imagine, knowing that 90% of the people you try to talk to, bow up and become indignant and self rightous when asked. |
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12/14/2009 09:53:54 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by picklenose:
And imagine, knowing that 90% of the people you try to talk to, bow up and become indignant and self rightous when asked. |
I never give cops attitude precisely for that reason.
I usually figure that if I wasn't doing something that attracted his attention, I wouldn't be talking to him in the first place. I look them in the eye, ask them whjat they'd like from me, and do the best I can to accomodate them. They have a gun and handcuffs, so I don't feel that being an unarmed person of interest is any time to get self-righteous.
I just don't have problems with people in those situations. If someone asks me what I'm doing, I look them in the eye, and answer their question in a civilized and polite manner. Most often, the courteous and polite attitude is enough to defray any further action. If they ask me to move along, I do.
Just as a cop will remember you if you give him a bag of shit, they will remember you if you're polite and respectful.
The last time I encountered a cop, they responded to a call where I was taking senior portraits at an abandonded farnmhouse. He asked nme what I was doing, so I explained. I also apologized as I had not mentioned it to anyone. In turn, he said, "Oh, that's okay, I didn't realize there was an adult here, we were just answering a call that there were kids over here.". I talked to him a little, chatted and told him that I was local and where I worked, and he was satisfied that we weren't wrecking the place. I asked him if he wanted us to leave, and he said, "No, have fun", and turned, walked to his car, and drove off.
I'm not saying that you won't encounter a jerk every now and then.....but I won't give him grief, either. There are other days, and other places to shoot.
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12/14/2009 10:10:14 PM · #45 |
VERY WELL SAID JEB.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by picklenose:
And imagine, knowing that 90% of the people you try to talk to, bow up and become indignant and self rightous when asked. |
I never give cops attitude precisely for that reason.
I usually figure that if I wasn't doing something that attracted his attention, I wouldn't be talking to him in the first place. I look them in the eye, ask them whjat they'd like from me, and do the best I can to accomodate them. They have a gun and handcuffs, so I don't feel that being an unarmed person of interest is any time to get self-righteous.
I just don't have problems with people in those situations. If someone asks me what I'm doing, I look them in the eye, and answer their question in a civilized and polite manner. Most often, the courteous and polite attitude is enough to defray any further action. If they ask me to move along, I do.
Just as a cop will remember you if you give him a bag of shit, they will remember you if you're polite and respectful.
The last time I encountered a cop, they responded to a call where I was taking senior portraits at an abandonded farnmhouse. He asked nme what I was doing, so I explained. I also apologized as I had not mentioned it to anyone. In turn, he said, "Oh, that's okay, I didn't realize there was an adult here, we were just answering a call that there were kids over here.". I talked to him a little, chatted and told him that I was local and where I worked, and he was satisfied that we weren't wrecking the place. I asked him if he wanted us to leave, and he said, "No, have fun", and turned, walked to his car, and drove off.
I'm not saying that you won't encounter a jerk every now and then.....but I won't give him grief, either. There are other days, and other places to shoot. |
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12/14/2009 11:57:05 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by FireBird:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
My experience in Dallas wasn't like that at all, I was shooting on a public sidewalk and the police came up to me and the first thing out of his mouth was, "Stop taking pictures" when I asked why, I was told, "Leave now or I'm going to arrest you." There was no "Who are you?" or "What are you doing?" or any of that.
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Wow, what asses. What were you near? Federal bldg. etc? Were these official Dallas police officers? Interesting that they didn't want to ID you. That is very strange. |
It's a famous building in downtown Dallas, I was across the street on the sidewalk. And yes, they were Dallas P.D. |
If I was brave enough at the time to use it, it's the reason why I carry the Photographer's Bill of Rights. I agree with you though, there are many times it's all attitude and no discussion that comes your way. What are you going to do? The cop is obviously not following the rules so there is no telling what his next step is. Is it worth tempting fate?
Were you using a tripod or something else? Every once in a while the cop probably has a legit (or at least semi-legit) reason for doing what they are doing. Not all sidewalks, for example, at the PPG building in Pittsburgh are public. As another example, taking pictures on the property of the federal courthouse here in Eugene is prohibited by court order. Blah blah blah. Anyway, I extend some commisseration with the lame-o cop. That can be quite scary sometimes. |
I had a monopod, but I was carrying it attached to my bag, which was on my shoulder. And since I was standing on the sidewalk next to the curb, in front of a public parking structure. I'm 99.99% certain I was on the public right-of-way. It was by no means crowded and I certainly wasn't blocking foot traffic.
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12/15/2009 12:04:17 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
They have a gun and handcuffs, so I don't feel that being an unarmed person of interest is any time to get self-righteous.
I just don't have problems with people in those situations. If someone asks me what I'm doing, I look them in the eye, and answer their question in a civilized and polite manner. Most often, the courteous and polite attitude is enough to defray any further action. If they ask me to move along, I do.
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Just because they have a badge and gun doesn't mean they can intimidate people for no good reason. |
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12/15/2009 12:22:09 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by picklenose:
How is some poor cop, that is just trying to do his or her job, supposed to discern between the innocent photographer just trying to take some pictures and this;
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The cop simply told spaz to leave or be arrested. He didn't want to know anything.
That my friend is an asshole. That cop deserved the same break he was giving spaz. |
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12/15/2009 12:33:28 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by picklenose:
And imagine, knowing that 90% of the people you try to talk to, bow up and become indignant and self rightous when asked. |
I always supply my credentials when approached by a uniformed police officer. I'll identify myself to un-uniformed officers upon display of their credentials.
I have no problem with it at all.
And I seriously doubt that 90 percent of the people that cops approach become indignant or self-righteous. I figure about 70 percent are fine with identifying their self, with 25 percent scared s(*);ess, and 5 percent representing your figure. |
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12/15/2009 06:38:30 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
They have a gun and handcuffs, so I don't feel that being an unarmed person of interest is any time to get self-righteous.
I just don't have problems with people in those situations. If someone asks me what I'm doing, I look them in the eye, and answer their question in a civilized and polite manner. Most often, the courteous and polite attitude is enough to defray any further action. If they ask me to move along, I do. |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Just because they have a badge and gun doesn't mean they can intimidate people for no good reason. |
You're absolutely 100% right!
You want to try and prove that point to someone with a gun and an attitude, you go right ahead.
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