Dork. aka Idiot... work flow needs changing!

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

10/28/2009 01:35:30 PM · #1

Yes, I am a dork. More, I am an ID 10 T. When I go through and edit shots, I of course then save them at the lovely and oh so very useful size of 720 pixels on the long side. I have a TON of edited work at this size. But this doesn't help much if one is looking through folders for stuff from which to build calendars for relatives... WHY do I do that? Why do I not save something at a printable size? Dork. That's the only thing I can come up with.

So when editing stuff, do you save a large jpeg a printable dimensions? tiffs? Photoshop docs? Is it worth the extra storage to do this? (Dumb question, really - of course it is.) And finally, what should I make for calendars this year? I'm thinking one of pictures from Keukenhof (for those relatives that like pretty pictures of flowers), one of European landmark type things (tourist shots!), and one of pigeons, though that one would be for me as my relatives aren't all that into pigeons....

Last year I used mpix and was very happy with the quality of the prints and paper but not so much with the text on the calendar itself which seemed rather inelegant. Still will probably use them again. May try Shutterfly for one or two. Any other recommendations?

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

10/28/2009 01:42:14 PM · #2

As for saving printable copies I always save first the RAW files. Then after processing i save a full size TIFF version without sharpening. Then I use the TIFF to make whatever else I need, inlcuding DPC challenge entries or website uploads.

Storage needs for this are obviously higher so I use an internal 1 TB drive as my working drive for photos, a 500 GB internal drive as my system drive and then two external backup drives, one for my photoes and the other for the rest of my computer needs.

BTW - I have been considering saving in DNG instead of TIFF since I work in Lightroom and PS. It is suposed to be a smaller file.

Message edited by author 2009-10-28 13:45:50.

david_c

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/28/2009 01:42:24 PM · #3

Generally, yes. I'll start by making a folder to which I copy/paste everything from my media card. If I'm working on an image (let's say for a DPC entry), and I like what I see, I'll start a new edit from the RAW or JPEG at full size, and save that as a PSD...in case I'm in the mood to get a print.

I never resize the whole batch, unless I plan to e-mail them somewhere. Even then, I'll make an entire copy of the original folder, and resize the images in the sub-folder. Come to think of it, I think I learned this type of workflow/paranoia from hanging around here.. . ;-)

10/28/2009 01:51:45 PM · #4

Oh, after the first year when I only saved my little edited files and threw everything else away (I'm so sad I did that!) I do keep all my RAW files. I do need to go clean out folders a bit, though. I need to be a whole lot more ruthless in what I keep. Not because of storage but because it takes so long to go through stuff when I'm looking for something. If there were less of it....

10/28/2009 01:57:34 PM · #5

Unless it is a junky illustration snapshot that will never be used for anything more, I always save a full size jpeg and the reduced web size version. I append the long edge pixel size to the filename so I can tell them apart when looking at the thumbnails.

I put my RAW files in the uppermost folder for the session, with a descriptive folder name that includes the date. Under that is a folder for the output of the RAW converter, and the lowest level folder contains the in-work images as PSPIMAGE files and the end result JPG's.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/28/2009 02:00:56 PM · #6

What do you mean by "output of the RAW converter"? Do you batch convert everything to jpegs, then edit from that?

I just keep everything in the same folder, though my names aren't quite as descriptive (or intriguing) as "hiking in good clothes"... Perhaps I need to start with separate folders - I like that structure for the edits. Would make it a darn bit easier to find things.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

10/28/2009 02:02:43 PM · #7

Besides keeping all my RAWs, I save every image I edit as a full-sized, layers-included PSD file. From that PSD file I spin off files at different sizes for DPC, printing, whatever... Uses a ton of space, yeah, but.... Someday I'll probably go prune the RAW tree, but not this week.

R.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/28/2009 02:10:08 PM · #8

I keep all my originals (JPEGs in my case) in separate, dated folders, and edited files in a new folder (one each month).

I then keep an edited, full-sized Photoshop file and a full-sized final, unsharpened TIFF, from which I create any other files ... for DPC entries I make a re-sized TIFF which is then saved after sharpening to a JPEG; if I'm making prints I start with the full-sized TIFF and make a new Photoshop file which includes any borders, captions, or ganged-images, and then export that to a final JPEG. If I'm ganging images on a print, there will also be a composite TIFF file of the final print used for placement.

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

10/28/2009 02:10:23 PM · #9

Originally posted by Melethia:

Yes, I have become much more ruthless when it comes to culling out RAW files I will never use. Obvious bad photos get deleted on the first pass after importing to Lightroom. Then I go through and decide which I will work on further and do a second delete of duplicates or similar shots that do not offer anything worthwhile to keep. Lightroom makes this process very easy.

If you are so inclinded Lightroom also offers a robust system for tagging your RAW photos with different keys to rate them or to keyword them. Although i do not do much of that it would make going through them later much easier. What i do to make mine easier is I save the TIFF files in appropriately named folders to help me find them when needed.

Message edited by author 2009-10-28 14:11:10.

10/28/2009 02:14:51 PM · #10

Originally posted by Melethia:

What do you mean by "output of the RAW converter"? Do you batch convert everything to jpegs, then edit from that?

Yes I tweak the RAW file in Canon DPP or Photomatix basic, and export them to TIFs or JPGs, which then go into PaintShop Pro for more work. PSP can open the CR2 files, but DPP does a better job. I generally don't batch convert them, but will copy a recipe between similar shots.

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

10/28/2009 02:17:11 PM · #11

Originally posted by jbsmithana:

Obvious bad photos get deleted on the first pass after importing to Lightroom. Then I go through and decide which I will work on further and do a second delete of duplicates or similar shots that do not offer anything worthwhile to keep. Lightroom makes this process very easy.

My approach to culling the obvious junk is to first dump the file from my memory card to an external hard disk. I then use the Windows preview to view the RAWs and the ones I think have potential get moved to the previously mentioned folder structure on my internal drive.

Eventually the throwaway files on the external will get deleted in a few months when I need to free up some space.

Message edited by author 2009-10-28 14:18:18.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

10/28/2009 02:17:46 PM · #12

In todays world of technology, space is cheap. For a couple hundred dollars you can get a 1 terrabyte hard drive. Now to put that into perspective, that is 1024 Gigabytes. This can hold, dependinding on filesize, about 200,000 pictures give or take. The way I categorize my photos is really simple. I have 2 folders 1 for un-edited right out of the camera. The other folder is for my edited pics. Then under each folder I have sub-folders that have all my shots. Both the edited and unedited folders have the exact same subfolders in them. That makes it easier to find a shot that has either been edited or that I want to edit later...I hope this has helped.

10/28/2009 02:19:38 PM · #13

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

For a couple hundred dollars you can get a 1 terrabyte hard drive.

Things must be pricier there. I can pick up a terabyte drive for well under $100 now.

EstimatedEyes

Fujifilm GFX 50R

Fujifilm GF 45mm f/2.8

10/28/2009 02:23:28 PM · #14

That's why I love Lightroom and its nondestructive edits. I keep the original full size RAW files in place, and can always export a fully edited version out of LR in any size I want. Only time I have to save a separate .tiff or .psd is when I edit the export in a separate program, like HDRs out of Photomatix. For Noise Ninja and other plug ins, I usually just rerun those in PS Elements every time I export, which eliminates the hassle of having to save separate files with minor edits.

I keep two copies of all the files I transfer from the camera cards, one dupe in the working folders to import into LR, and the original hidden away in a folder called Original Imports. But that's just cuz I'm a dork. I've never once had to go back to the originals for anything. (I also keep a third copy via the automatic backups of the working files)

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

10/28/2009 02:35:01 PM · #15

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Obvious bad photos get deleted on the first pass after importing to Lightroom. Then I go through and decide which I will work on further and do a second delete of duplicates or similar shots that do not offer anything worthwhile to keep. Lightroom makes this process very easy.

My approach to culling the obvious junk is to first dump the file from my memory card to an external hard disk. I then use the Windows preview to view the RAWs and the ones I think have potential get moved to the previously mentioned folder structure on my internal drive.

Eventually the throwaway files on the external will get deleted in a few months when I need to free up some space.

Given what Judy has painfully learned this week, I do hope you have another copy other than the one you use Windows preview to view...

And I will echo that Lightroom is awesome for this task. Granted, it seems a lot to pay for something just to view and cull photographs, but think about how much time you spend doing that? It's a far better tool than the Windows viewer for showing detail and nuances. And of course you can do a whole lot more than just view and cull with it. I would say it's a very justifiable expense for anyone who spends as much time on this hobby as most of us do.

In fact, as

EstimatedEyes points out, I need to take more advantage of the LR capabilities to do basic edits, which is what I do most of anyway. I'm about to upgrade to 2.0 which should help quit a bit. That way, as he says, you always have an edited full sized file PLUS the RAW (the edit is layered data - it doesn't change the RAW file) and you can easily export to Photoshop or whatever for a sharpening pass and resize for print. Good idea!

Ja-9

Nikon D750

10/28/2009 02:39:56 PM · #16

don't cringe...but I used Costco...they will even mail it to you for little or no cost!!! I assume that Sams would to...you can do it online that's the great part and their prices were great....

I have gotten into the habit now of doing a save as in PSD at full size just before I downsize...

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

10/28/2009 02:40:15 PM · #17

Originally posted by Melethia:

[I'm about to upgrade to 2.0 which should help quit a bit.

You might want to wait just a little while. Although I love LR2 they have released a LR3 Beta and the new vesion will be out in the new year. it looks like a worthwhile upgrad so you might just skip 2 and go right to three. Unless of course the upgrade cost from 1 to 2 and then to 3 is cheaper.

10/28/2009 02:41:02 PM · #18

Originally posted by Melethia:

Given what Judy has painfully learned this week, I do hope you have another copy other than the one you use Windows preview to view...

The keepers do get backed up to a different folder on the external drive, and I don't immediately erase the CF card until I have filled them all up.

10/28/2009 02:43:36 PM · #19

Originally posted by jbsmithana:

Originally posted by Melethia:
[I'm about to upgrade to 2.0 which should help quit a bit.

You might want to wait just a little while. Although I love LR2 they have released a LR3 Beta and the new vesion will be out in the new year. it looks like a worthwhile upgrad so you might just skip 2 and go right to three. Unless of course the upgrade cost from 1 to 2 and then to 3 is cheaper.

That's a good point. I also need to upgrade Photoshop, unless I want to use the Canon software to open RAW files for awhile... something to do with a new camera... :-)