Trolling, Ranking, Rating - 3 TECHNIQUES for SCORE

10/26/2009 10:31:58 AM · #76

Originally posted by snaffles:

Yep, there are definitely a few voters sitting there nitpicking the pix apart technique by technique by technique and leaving unhelpful comments. Guess some people don't have a life.

You might be right but by looking at some of the images it seems people used the techniques, in some cases like they were crossing them off a checklist...or with no rhyme or reason. There are some really great images in the Challenge although a few techniques do seem to be missing, as listed or not understood. I would suggest that the voters take subtlety into account... because not every technique has to punch you in the nose to be valid.

Votes: 28
Views: 62
Avg Vote:6.5714
Comments:3
Favorites:3

Good numbers and still, I think I'm getting totally robbed.

Ken

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/26/2009 10:38:32 AM · #77

Votes: 31
Views: 53
Avg Vote: 5.9355
Comments: 0

Nice drop this morning, just as expected. At least I'm enjoying it.

sadiebird

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

10/26/2009 11:03:59 AM · #78

Originally posted by pawdrix:

not every technique has to punch you in the nose to be valid.

i agree 100%. one of my techniques is very subtle but i researched that technique the most (it's not one i use often) and am very sure that it's valid and appropriately used.

i think there are several images in this challenge that are like that and, honestly, i prefer those images to the in your face ones. they're the better photographs in this challenge, imho.

Message edited by author 2009-10-26 11:04:32.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/26/2009 11:10:38 AM · #79

Originally posted by sadiebird:

Originally posted by pawdrix:
not every technique has to punch you in the nose to be valid.

i agree 100%. one of my techniques is very subtle but i researched that technique the most (it's not one i use often) and am very sure that it's valid and appropriately used.

i think there are several images in this challenge that are like that and, honestly, i prefer those images to the in your face ones. they're the better photographs in this challenge, imho.

I'm not sure if I agree with this, but I take your point. Still, for what it's worth, here's my perspective:

I saw the challenge as a request to produce an image that *illustrates* 3 separate techniques in a single image. I saw the challenge as one requiring thought and planning. In my mind, if the use of the technique is not fairly obvious then the image isn't really working in terms of the challenge: I want to be able to look at an image sans title and see if I can pick the 3 techniques used. Then I have been checking the title to see if I got it "right".

A surprising number of times I haven't even been close, and for me those images are less successful in terms of the challenge, even if they are aesthetically excellent, so they aren't getting my highest scores.

Certainly, I went to a lot of trouble to make my image in-your-face as far as the 3 techniques go :-)

R.

david_c

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/26/2009 11:28:35 AM · #80

Votes: 29
Views: 53
Avg Vote: 6.4138
Comments: 2

I must say, there are some really outstanding images in this one...well done, everyone. A visual smorgasbord, a feast for my eyes.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

10/26/2009 11:31:09 AM · #81

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

If the technique is present and noticeable to any degree, that should be perfectly fine and there's no reason to discount any technique, simply because it wasn't plowed into the frame. If you can't see it, that's fine BUT if it's there and was used well or to good effect, however subtle that should be respected. More important is how it helps the overall image.

It's sad if people are judging volume over quality...

eta: I'd be happier if the techniques were there and I didn't notice them, fwiw. There's plenty of beauty in the delicate hand. Id rather see the image on the whole and not have the techniques stand out as to put the carriage before the horse.

Message edited by author 2009-10-26 11:35:05.

sadiebird

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

10/26/2009 11:50:57 AM · #82

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by sadiebird:

Originally posted by pawdrix:
not every technique has to punch you in the nose to be valid.

i agree 100%. one of my techniques is very subtle but i researched that technique the most (it's not one i use often) and am very sure that it's valid and appropriately used.

i think there are several images in this challenge that are like that and, honestly, i prefer those images to the in your face ones. they're the better photographs in this challenge, imho.

I'm not sure if I agree with this, but I take your point. Still, for what it's worth, here's my perspective:

I saw the challenge as a request to produce an image that *illustrates* 3 separate techniques in a single image. I saw the challenge as one requiring thought and planning. In my mind, if the use of the technique is not fairly obvious then the image isn't really working in terms of the challenge: I want to be able to look at an image sans title and see if I can pick the 3 techniques used. Then I have been checking the title to see if I got it "right".

A surprising number of times I haven't even been close, and for me those images are less successful in terms of the challenge, even if they are aesthetically excellent, so they aren't getting my highest scores.

Certainly, I went to a lot of trouble to make my image in-your-face as far as the 3 techniques go :-)

R.

i didn't mean to imply that all of the "in your face" images were bad or, as you put it, "less successful". only that i prefer the ones that illustrate that a technique can be used in different, less obvious ways and still be effective. i also appreciate what pawdrix called a "delicate hand". having an image that uses something subjective and having to look at it several times to understand why the photographer used that or considered it integral, is just as illustrative as having a more obvious image.

mpeters

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/26/2009 11:56:52 AM · #83

Votes: 36
Views: 83
Avg Vote: 6.7778
Comments: 7
Favorites: 3

Been dropping from a nice 7.4 earlier but I'm very pleased(especially with the 3 favs!)

ralph

Nikon Z9

10/26/2009 11:58:11 AM · #84

Votes: 32
Views: 61
Avg Vote: 4.3125

very very lame ..

sarsonuk

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

10/26/2009 12:00:37 PM · #85

Votes: 34
Views: 59
Avg Vote: 6.0882
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 10/26/09 11:51 am

sadiebird

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

10/26/2009 12:08:45 PM · #86

Votes: 34
Views: 71
Avg Vote: 5.8529
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0

slipping a bit but still happy :)

SEG

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

10/26/2009 12:27:02 PM · #87

Originally posted by albc28:

Originally posted by SEG:
Did not fully read the discription and getting hammered with DNMC comments. People are soooo literal.

Score = 4.4

Pre-warning: I haven't browsed the entries nor voted yet....

Comment: So you didn't fully read the challenge description, so you didn't completely follow it, yet it's the voters fault?

not at all. I think people just get a kick out of telling people that it's a DNMC. It's not like you're REALLY voting on the techniques. If it was a horrible shot that used 3 specific techniques it would still get lower than a 5 score from most. Why not vote the shot on it's artist merit and maybe drop a point or two because the description was not followed to the letter instead of doling out 1s because of a technicality? Not trying to ruffle feathers, just wanted to converse on the topic.

Then again my image might just suck

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

10/26/2009 12:48:25 PM · #88

Put your thinking caps on before voting -
I'm noticing that there are soooo many things to consider when rating these images ...

albc28

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/26/2009 01:02:45 PM · #89

Originally posted by SEG:

Originally posted by albc28:

Originally posted by SEG:
Did not fully read the discription and getting hammered with DNMC comments. People are soooo literal.

Score = 4.4

Pre-warning: I haven't browsed the entries nor voted yet....

Comment: So you didn't fully read the challenge description, so you didn't completely follow it, yet it's the voters fault?

not at all. I think people just get a kick out of telling people that it's a DNMC. It's not like you're REALLY voting on the techniques. If it was a horrible shot that used 3 specific techniques it would still get lower than a 5 score from most. Why not vote the shot on it's artist merit and maybe drop a point or two because the description was not followed to the letter instead of doling out 1s because of a technicality? Not trying to ruffle feathers, just wanted to converse on the topic.

Then again my image might just suck

that's understandable. I've been doing a sense of that. I'll knock off a couple of points for DNMC (and make sure I comment why I think it's DNMC) and then evaluate the artistic/technical aspect of the photo. I can't find myself giving a DNMC higher than a 6 no matter how great the photo is. Then again, if the photo is that good, it's prolly not DNMC because they probably knew how to include all 3 techniques.

albc28

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/26/2009 01:04:53 PM · #90

Originally posted by albc28:

My god....I've never started this high in the morning. I can't believe my score. I'm afraid to hit the update button because I know it's going to plummet. If the usual trend holds up, It'll drop by 0.4 during the week, then raise back up by 0.2 points...and it will still plow my current PB out of the water.

Well the trend is looking pretty good so far...have dropped 0.5 today. DANG!

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/26/2009 01:05:44 PM · #91

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Put your thinking caps on before voting -
I'm noticing that there are soooo many things to consider when rating these images ...

I agree. I think some folks were quite mindful about how they worked the techniques they chose and to slap together a vote wouldn't be doing them justice.

Being the guy who suggested the Challenge my main thought was to have people produce a great image first while using a set of techniques combined in a meaningful way. The techniques aren't a side note but can be used to any degree that works on any level. The main thing is to think more artistically and less in terms of rock hard rules. It's more about the strength of the image and if the techs are present in any way...that's good enough. Let it ride. If the image works give the artist some latitude. Nowhere in the description does it say "boldly" use any three techniques so, they should probably be judged on their simple presence and effect, however delicate. The overall image should rule at the end of the day otherwise the winner will just be a grocery list of techniques without meaning.

It's certainly not a great Challenge to get all boxed up in. Probably, best enjoyed if people park the bullshit elseware....

eta: A few weeks back we had a Low-Key Challenge where many people didn't seem to have an understanding of what low key was (IMO). I'm not defending that, in anyway. There will always be people and images that miss the mark on every level but the viewer is also responsible for casting a smart vote even if it does take an extra moment.

Message edited by author 2009-10-26 15:22:46.

TrollMan

Fujifilm X-T4

Fujifilm XF 35mm f/1.4

10/26/2009 01:18:52 PM · #92

I would also strongly suggest that voters look at the definition of the techniques before they comment that they think a particular technique is not correctly executed...

njsabs

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/26/2009 01:21:43 PM · #93

I have four comments thus far. Two of the comments state that they can see my three techniques right off the bat. The use of them was very obvious. The other comment states they can see only one of the three techniques being used in the image. It will be an interesting week. My personnel opinion was that two of them are obvious and the third one is subtle. I wonder in the power of suggestion comes into play here?

JulietNN

Canon EOS R7

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

10/26/2009 01:35:56 PM · #94

I like my score as the shot is not my usual style, so really rather happy with it!!!

Votes: 38
Views: 67
Avg Vote: 6.1053
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0

scarbrd

Leica M10

Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux M Aspherical MF - Black

10/26/2009 01:41:11 PM · #95

Originally posted by TrollMan:

I would also strongly suggest that voters look at the definition of the techniques before they comment that they think a particular technique is not correctly executed...

"Norway" is not a technique, it's a country. ;-)

Good to see you're in a challenge!

TrollMan

Fujifilm X-T4

Fujifilm XF 35mm f/1.4

10/26/2009 01:55:07 PM · #96

Originally posted by scarbrd:

"Norway" is not a technique, it's a country. ;-)

Good to see you're in a challenge!

Dang - I thought it was a technique! Voters always misunderstand me - :)

Good to see you in here too

J-Me

Sony DSLR-A200

Sony 75-300 mm f/4.5-5.6

10/26/2009 02:02:27 PM · #97

Originally posted by scarbrd:

Originally posted by TrollMan:
I would also strongly suggest that voters look at the definition of the techniques before they comment that they think a particular technique is not correctly executed...

"Norway" is not a technique, it's a country. ;-)

Good to see you're in a challenge!

LOL...I beg to differ about Norway. Iceland is a technique and wins a lot of ribbons! ;-P *grin*

10/26/2009 02:55:57 PM · #98

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Originally posted by scarbrd:

Originally posted by TrollMan:
I would also strongly suggest that voters look at the definition of the techniques before they comment that they think a particular technique is not correctly executed...

"Norway" is not a technique, it's a country. ;-)

Good to see you're in a challenge!

LOL...I beg to differ about Norway. Iceland is a technique and wins a lot of ribbons! ;-P *grin*

Hopefully, the next time they run the Challenge the can list Iceland as a singular technique.

sarsonuk