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10/15/2009 12:22:29 PM · #1 |
Last night, a pipe burst in the kitchen of the apartment above me. The pipe burst in their kitchen, which is directly over my bedroom, where I keep EVERYTHING. So almost all of my equipment (save a few lenses that were protected by multiple bags) was doused with some pretty nasty water (about the color of dark amber beer).
I took everything apart and removed all batteries as soon as I could.
Some batteries, both lithium ion for my camera and 24 NiMh rechargables for my flashes, were submerged, as were the chargers for both types of batteries, my firewire card reader, the cord that connects my camera to my computer, and a few other wires.
I know I just have to wait for my computer, camera, and lenses to dry, but I'm not sure about everything else. My landlord (since this is completely his fault--I won't go into details why, but it is, and he admitted it is) said that he will pay for all of my equipment that was damaged.
So my question(s): Should I even try to save the batteries or are they already destroyed from the water? What about the chargers and the card reader? The dirt and stuff from the water left a very noticeable film on everything. I don't want to stick my card in there if it's not going to work, or even if it's just going to break my card too. The wires were in that dirty water too, so even though I can't see if there's dirt in there or not, should I assume there is (to be safe) and get new ones? How should I go about cleaning the dirt off the rest of my equipment (including cds/dvds)? Should I also play it safe by sending in everything that got wet for service or would that be a waste of time (I'm in photography school, so I use my equipment very regularly)?
Pretty much everything in my bedroom got wet, so if you have any tips for items not mentioned here, they'd be appreciated too! |
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10/15/2009 12:32:13 PM · #2 |
| Holy Cow ... I can't even imagine the mess ... I don't really have any advice for what may/may not be ruined ... I think I'd send it all in to be cleaned and make the landlord rent you some equipment while they're gone ... |
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10/15/2009 12:45:07 PM · #3 |
| I'd take photos of all damage, collect all the receipts and prices you can and document every word the landlord says with witnesses hearing it and saying they heard it. Document document document. I bet there's a good chance the land lord will change his tune when he finds out what all that stuff costs, or you may have to battle his insurance company. Sucks, sorry to hear that happened. |
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10/15/2009 12:52:38 PM · #4 |
My first thought is the water just "dirty" or is it sewer water?
If its just dirty then the CD's and DVD's can just be rinsed good and gently wiped clean with a soft cloth. Anything that plugs in to the wall I wouldn't risk trying to salvage them as there could be a potential fire hazard there. As for the camera equipment, send it in for service, they may tell you to just replace them as that's what Canon did with my 17-40 that I drown.
If its SEWER water then I wouldn't take the risk at all and just have anything affected replaced...
-dave
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10/15/2009 01:12:12 PM · #5 |
That really sux. If the water was not sewer water, the cables should be fine if they are dried out and cleaned. The cameras and lenses should be taken to a respectable dealer and inspected/cleaned. The card reader should be leaned extremely well or it won't read the card. Rubbing alcohol on a q-tip works good for cleaning computer equipment. The batteries should be good. I have never heard of a battery getting damaged from getting wet unless it stayed under water for an extended period of time. The chargers should also be inspected but it might be cheaper and easier to replace them. If it was raw sewage.....toss it all and start over. Have the landlord buy new equipment and rent you some equipment in the meantime. Your landlords insurance is probably going to hate you. Do you have renters insurance? If you don't the landlords insurance might not pay.....
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10/15/2009 01:26:49 PM · #6 |
The landlords insurance will not cover your stuff. Their insurance covers the building only. That's what renters insurance is for. Now if it was due to neglect then you might be able to get your landlord to pay it or sue them for it but their insurance will not touch it.
ETA: Your landlord may have a separate business insurance that would cover him if you sue him but they wouldn't touch it either unless you do.
Message edited by author 2009-10-15 13:30:19. |
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10/15/2009 01:33:05 PM · #7 |
Maybe you missed the part where she said, "My landlord said that he will pay for all of my equipment that was damaged." I'm pretty sure her question was, "What can be salvaged?"
Originally posted by danculwell:
The landlords insurance will not cover your stuff. Their insurance covers the building only. That's what renters insurance is for. Now if it was due to neglect then you might be able to get your landlord to pay it or sue them for it but their insurance will not touch it.
ETA: Your landlord may have a separate business insurance that would cover him if you sue him but they wouldn't touch it either unless you do. |
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10/15/2009 03:03:50 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by danculwell:
The landlords insurance will not cover your stuff. Their insurance covers the building only. That's what renters insurance is for. Now if it was due to neglect then you might be able to get your landlord to pay it or sue them for it but their insurance will not touch it.
ETA: Your landlord may have a separate business insurance that would cover him if you sue him but they wouldn't touch it either unless you do. |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Maybe you missed the part where she said, "My landlord said that he will pay for all of my equipment that was damaged." I'm pretty sure her question was, "What can be salvaged?" |
That may very well be what he said, but the tune may change once the number is determined.
Cover your tail every which way from Tuesday.....once you have replacement stuff on hois nickel, THEN you know for sure he meant it.
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10/15/2009 03:26:19 PM · #9 |
Thanks so much for the responses.
I told my landlord that if every single piece of my equipment was damaged, the cost would be around $10,000, and he said ok. I also mentioned that that number did not include paper, mount board, etc. I'm not really concerned about how he'll pay as long as he does pay, and I don't need to gain anything as long as I don't lose anything.
I'm definitely documenting everything. I have two roommates that have been acting as witnesses. They've also been incredibly amazing at lending me everything I need, which is helping with the stress.
The pipe was from the kitchen sink, so the water is not sewage, but there was dirt, dust, plaster, and all kinds of nasty stuff (including chunks of my ceiling) that the water picked up as it ran through their floor/my ceiling.
I wish I could have taken pictures of the waterfalls in my bedroom (they lasted for about an hour since it took almost 45 minutes for the handyman to arrive and turn the water valve off), but my camera was definitely out-of-service by then. I took pictures when my roommate came home with her camera, but the men had turned off the water and vacuumed most of it up by then.
It sounds like the consensus is that I should send my equipment in for service, that the batteries should be fine, and that the chargers should probably be replaced. I'll try cleaning everything else. I'm still kinda worried about trying the card reader in case some of that dirt gets lodged in my card and breaks that too. Eek! Anyway, thank you all for your help. I'll keep you posted on how everything progresses. |
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10/15/2009 05:25:52 PM · #10 |
If he is fine with replacing the damaged hardware I would just error on the side of caution and get workout an estimate on replacing your equipment rather than servicing it, seriously it could be fine for now but down the road there could be corrosion problems. Even on my XTi that I drown in clean glacier water I have since noticed a little rust and or corrosion on some of the internals...
Most likely Canon wont even look at the equipment and just tell you to replace it. When I drown my 17-40F4L they didn't even touch it and just said it wasn't repairable. So I didn't bother taking in the XTi that went in the river with it.
BUT dont let them talk you in to buying it all yourself again and them reimburse you, you should be able to set up and order at a local store and have THEM buy it for you under your name (for warranty) but their cash, CC or cheque...
-dave |
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10/15/2009 05:29:08 PM · #11 |
way to stimulate the economy.....BRAVO.
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10/15/2009 05:35:00 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by dknourek:
If he is fine with replacing the damaged hardware I would just error on the side of caution and get workout an estimate on replacing your equipment rather than servicing it, seriously it could be fine for now but down the road there could be corrosion problems. Even on my XTi that I drown in clean glacier water I have since noticed a little rust and or corrosion on some of the internals...
Most likely Canon wont even look at the equipment and just tell you to replace it. When I drown my 17-40F4L they didn't even touch it and just said it wasn't repairable. So I didn't bother taking in the XTi that went in the river with it.
BUT dont let them talk you in to buying it all yourself again and them reimburse you, you should be able to set up and order at a local store and have THEM buy it for you under your name (for warranty) but their cash, CC or cheque...
-dave |
I agree with both points.
a) Drowned/serviced stuff will never be as good as what it was before drowning, especially with filthy water. There is no reason you should take a hit for what was not your fault.
b) The only way you will know for sure that the cost will be covered is to have the landlord (or his insurance) pay at the time of ordering -- otherwise you might order $10,000 worth of stuff and then spend months or longer trying to get it reimbursed. ETA: Or have them give you a check for the whole amount up front and let you do all the ordering.
Message edited by author 2009-10-15 19:14:02. |
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10/15/2009 08:46:19 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by ErikV:
Originally posted by dknourek:
If he is fine with replacing the damaged hardware I would just error on the side of caution and get workout an estimate on replacing your equipment rather than servicing it, seriously it could be fine for now but down the road there could be corrosion problems. Even on my XTi that I drown in clean glacier water I have since noticed a little rust and or corrosion on some of the internals...
Most likely Canon wont even look at the equipment and just tell you to replace it. When I drown my 17-40F4L they didn't even touch it and just said it wasn't repairable. So I didn't bother taking in the XTi that went in the river with it.
BUT dont let them talk you in to buying it all yourself again and them reimburse you, you should be able to set up and order at a local store and have THEM buy it for you under your name (for warranty) but their cash, CC or cheque...
-dave |
I agree with both points.
a) Drowned/serviced stuff will never be as good as what it was before drowning, especially with filthy water. There is no reason you should take a hit for what was not your fault.
b) The only way you will know for sure that the cost will be covered is to have the landlord (or his insurance) pay at the time of ordering -- otherwise you might order $10,000 worth of stuff and then spend months or longer trying to get it reimbursed. ETA: Or have them give you a check for the whole amount up front and let you do all the ordering. |
JUST MAKE SURE THE CHECK/CHEQUE CLEARS BEFORE YOU SPEND ANY MONEY ;)
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10/15/2009 09:22:14 PM · #14 |
All very good points. I would let the batteries dry out for a long period of time before using them, however.
Keep in mind that when a car is damaged in a flood, they are not supposed to be resold--they're junked. I'd also not trust a camera that's been flooded for any long-term time period. But your best bet is to call the vendors. They've seen it all before, and they should be able to give you a good idea of whether you should try to fix it or scrap it. If they say that a piece of equipment is perfectly fine, then there's no reason to have him buy a new one. (I do feel a little sorry for him, because he probably has a big headache right now.) But, if there's any doubt about the long term reliability of a piece of equipment, he should replace it.
I also think that you if you gave him a laundry list of everything that was flooded, what you were able to salvage and what you were unable to salvage, it might help him feel more comfortable about the mega-money. That you tried to salvage what you could, and that you weren't trying to get new everything out of him.
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10/15/2009 09:47:25 PM · #15 |
| Could you add in an extra $1500 and pick me up a 24-70? Keep the change! |
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10/15/2009 10:25:03 PM · #16 |
I'm sorry to hear about your disaster. That has to be heart breaking. I wouldn't put the card in the muddy card reader, esp if it is a CF card, because dirt will be pushed into the holes were the little contacts plug into it. That could get into your next camera and cause a problem.
At least you can still get on line and have your DPC : )
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10/17/2009 02:46:49 AM · #17 |
Thanks for your comments again. I'm testing out my laptop for the first time since the accident (I was using school computers before). The computer froze the first time I tried to turn it on, but it seems ok now. But everyone has been talking about corrosion and reduced life expectancy of my computer and camera, so I'm going to ask about replacing them. Chargers and card reader are going to be replaced. Lenses and flash will be serviced. DVD player seems to be working, so I'm not sure about the future of that. Some books and magazines were damaged and a lot of paperwork was destroyed, but nothing too terrible. My bed is still wet.
But I have another question. I tuned my camera on and tested it (ISO 100, 1/200-1/15sec) by taking some pictures of a bookshelf since it had good shadows, highlights, and detail. The noise is much higher than it used to be, especially in the shadows and midtones. Also in the lower midtones is what looks like artifacting and random blocks of solid colors that aren't really there. Does that sound like something that would be caused by water damage? I don't really know what water damage might look like in a digital file, but I have never noticed this kind of artifacting from my camera before. Being able to show a difference in quality might help convince my landlord that a replacement might be a good idea if he doesn't think that corrosion and a shorter life expectancy are reason enough. |
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10/17/2009 03:11:12 AM · #18 |
| Sorry, I can't answer your camera questions, but get your mattress replaced! It'll take so long to dry the middle that it'll most likely mildew, which can cause health problems even if you can't see or smell it. |
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10/17/2009 06:10:28 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by geinafets:
Thanks for your comments again. I'm testing out my laptop for the first time since the accident (I was using school computers before). The computer froze the first time I tried to turn it on, but it seems ok now. But everyone has been talking about corrosion and reduced life expectancy of my computer and camera, so I'm going to ask about replacing them. Chargers and card reader are going to be replaced. Lenses and flash will be serviced. DVD player seems to be working, so I'm not sure about the future of that. Some books and magazines were damaged and a lot of paperwork was destroyed, but nothing too terrible. My bed is still wet.
But I have another question. I tuned my camera on and tested it (ISO 100, 1/200-1/15sec) by taking some pictures of a bookshelf since it had good shadows, highlights, and detail. The noise is much higher than it used to be, especially in the shadows and midtones. Also in the lower midtones is what looks like artifacting and random blocks of solid colors that aren't really there. Does that sound like something that would be caused by water damage? I don't really know what water damage might look like in a digital file, but I have never noticed this kind of artifacting from my camera before. Being able to show a difference in quality might help convince my landlord that a replacement might be a good idea if he doesn't think that corrosion and a shorter life expectancy are reason enough. |
It sounds to me like you are a kind hearted, good person, who doesn't want to bother someone and is about to get run over because you are trying to be nice. Electronics (including lenses) and water don't mix, have them replace it all and if they will not take them to small claims court. If they think the equipment is good let them take it and try to sell it....they will find out what wet electronics are worth. The camera is giving you strange artifacts, make them replace it. You are not taking advantage of them. If they don't replace everything they are taking advantage of you. It is not coming out of their pocket directly, their insurance will pay this. |
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10/17/2009 09:20:19 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by rlewis:
Originally posted by geinafets:
Thanks for your comments again. I'm testing out my laptop for the first time since the accident (I was using school computers before). The computer froze the first time I tried to turn it on, but it seems ok now. But everyone has been talking about corrosion and reduced life expectancy of my computer and camera, so I'm going to ask about replacing them. Chargers and card reader are going to be replaced. Lenses and flash will be serviced. DVD player seems to be working, so I'm not sure about the future of that. Some books and magazines were damaged and a lot of paperwork was destroyed, but nothing too terrible. My bed is still wet.
But I have another question. I tuned my camera on and tested it (ISO 100, 1/200-1/15sec) by taking some pictures of a bookshelf since it had good shadows, highlights, and detail. The noise is much higher than it used to be, especially in the shadows and midtones. Also in the lower midtones is what looks like artifacting and random blocks of solid colors that aren't really there. Does that sound like something that would be caused by water damage? I don't really know what water damage might look like in a digital file, but I have never noticed this kind of artifacting from my camera before. Being able to show a difference in quality might help convince my landlord that a replacement might be a good idea if he doesn't think that corrosion and a shorter life expectancy are reason enough. |
It sounds to me like you are a kind hearted, good person, who doesn't want to bother someone and is about to get run over because you are trying to be nice. Electronics (including lenses) and water don't mix, have them replace it all and if they will not take them to small claims court. If they think the equipment is good let them take it and try to sell it....they will find out what wet electronics are worth. The camera is giving you strange artifacts, make them replace it. You are not taking advantage of them. If they don't replace everything they are taking advantage of you. It is not coming out of their pocket directly, their insurance will pay this. |
Even if it does come out of their pocket directly, you've stated that the landlord is at fault, and that he admitted that he was at fault. Think of this as business - your stuff has been destroyed or compromised, it's his fault, and the slate needs to be cleared. That means that everything damaged should be replaced. The camera is obviously not working right - get it replaced. If you even suspect that something isn't working right - get it replaced.
It was all working before this happened - you should have all new working gear when this is all done.
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10/17/2009 12:40:50 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
It sounds to me like you are a kind hearted, good person, who doesn't want to bother someone and is about to get run over because you are trying to be nice. Electronics (including lenses) and water don't mix, have them replace it all and if they will not take them to small claims court. If they think the equipment is good let them take it and try to sell it....they will find out what wet electronics are worth. The camera is giving you strange artifacts, make them replace it. You are not taking advantage of them. If they don't replace everything they are taking advantage of you. It is not coming out of their pocket directly, their insurance will pay this.
Even if it does come out of their pocket directly, you've stated that the landlord is at fault, and that he admitted that he was at fault. Think of this as business - your stuff has been destroyed or compromised, it's his fault, and the slate needs to be cleared. That means that everything damaged should be replaced. The camera is obviously not working right - get it replaced. If you even suspect that something isn't working right - get it replaced.
It was all working before this happened - you should have all new working gear when this is all done. |
I don't mean to disagree somewhat with Brent and I really have no idea of all the circumstances but consider the following before playing absolute hardball.
If your landlord feels that you are pushing what he considers to be a generous offer (by not trying to salvage/repair anything) and you want to or have to make him pay for replacing everything, you will have to most likely go to court. In court you will have to prove the following:
1. It is his fault totally - no partial negligence on your part.
2. Even if it's his fault, you may be obligated to seek compensation from your own insurer first.
3. Your lease or in the absence of a lease tenancy at will laws in your jurisdiction might limit any liability on his part in this matter, depending on the circumstances.
4. Even if you win, generally courts do not award replacement cost compensation but actual cash value - so your 50D is not worth the $1,200 you paid for it, but the $950 you could get for it used on ebay.
5. If your total asking price exceeds the small claims threshold in your jurisdiction, you may have a hard time representing yourself in regular commercial court, and would havet to consider an attorney.
Also, if you have to go that route, you can bet that you will be moving at the end of your lease or sooner if you are month to month.
Just a few things to digest. Life isn't always fair.
Message edited by author 2009-10-17 12:42:39. |
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10/17/2009 01:09:51 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
It sounds to me like you are a kind hearted, good person, who doesn't want to bother someone and is about to get run over because you are trying to be nice. Electronics (including lenses) and water don't mix, have them replace it all and if they will not take them to small claims court. If they think the equipment is good let them take it and try to sell it....they will find out what wet electronics are worth. The camera is giving you strange artifacts, make them replace it. You are not taking advantage of them. If they don't replace everything they are taking advantage of you. It is not coming out of their pocket directly, their insurance will pay this.
Even if it does come out of their pocket directly, you've stated that the landlord is at fault, and that he admitted that he was at fault. Think of this as business - your stuff has been destroyed or compromised, it's his fault, and the slate needs to be cleared. That means that everything damaged should be replaced. The camera is obviously not working right - get it replaced. If you even suspect that something isn't working right - get it replaced.
It was all working before this happened - you should have all new working gear when this is all done. |
I don't mean to disagree somewhat with Brent and I really have no idea of all the circumstances but consider the following before playing absolute hardball.
If your landlord feels that you are pushing what he considers to be a generous offer (by not trying to salvage/repair anything) and you want to or have to make him pay for replacing everything, you will have to most likely go to court. In court you will have to prove the following:
1. It is his fault totally - no partial negligence on your part.
2. Even if it's his fault, you may be obligated to seek compensation from your own insurer first.
3. Your lease or in the absence of a lease tenancy at will laws in your jurisdiction might limit any liability on his part in this matter, depending on the circumstances.
4. Even if you win, generally courts do not award replacement cost compensation but actual cash value - so your 50D is not worth the $1,200 you paid for it, but the $950 you could get for it used on ebay.
5. If your total asking price exceeds the small claims threshold in your jurisdiction, you may have a hard time representing yourself in regular commercial court, and would havet to consider an attorney.
Also, if you have to go that route, you can bet that you will be moving at the end of your lease or sooner if you are month to month.
Just a few things to digest. Life isn't always fair. |
Good points.
I know I'm repeating myself, but have you called the camera and lens companies to find out whether flooded equipment can normally be salvaged without problems or whether it tends to create problems down the road? The companies and repair shops are the ones that have this information. |
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10/20/2009 07:00:59 PM · #23 |
| Things seem to be working out well. My landlord took me to replace a lot of things that got damaged, including the 50D body, laptop, chargers, and paper. We sent the the lens and flash out for repair. He replaced the rug and is letting me use an extra bed (downside to that is it's a different size than I had before so I have to go buy new sheets...and I had just bought 2 new sets 2 months ago). Someone should be coming to fix my ceiling this week, so until then I'll be in he living room. I'll be absolutely thrilled when I can finally move back into my bedroom. I know things could have been so much worse, so I'm glad with the outcome. Thank you all for your help! |
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10/20/2009 09:11:04 PM · #24 |
Ugh. Just when I thought things were going better.
I wrote the last message while at school. I'd only been there for less than 45 minutes. I went outside to find someone cut through my bike lock and stole my bike. That is my only mode of transportation besides my feet.
Things come in threes, right? Two down, one more to go? I am supposed to get the results of some tests at the doctor's tomorrow, so with the way my luck is going, I wouldn't be surprised if they tell me I have less than 24 hours to live.
I really have such terrible luck. |
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