Final Beer Shot - Thanks to all that helped

01/28/2004 12:32:18 PM · #1

Well, here is the final version of what I am sending to the graphics department. We'll soon see it on packaging in and around Montreal.

Thanks to everybody for their advice and help.

bamaster

Canon EOS-D30

01/28/2004 12:43:24 PM · #2

must... drink... beer....

A Killian's Irish Red would hot the spot sometime tonight.

Where's the thread with all the help and advice?

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

01/28/2004 12:50:38 PM · #3

here they are

sorry for the multiple threads

RiderGal

Nikon D300

01/28/2004 12:52:55 PM · #4

Congrats Mariomel! Hope you got paid well for that, especially since they are using it in so many places! Nicely done.

Sony E 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS

01/28/2004 12:58:22 PM · #5

Originally posted by RiderGal:

Congrats Mariomel! Hope you got paid well for that, especially since they are using it in so many places! Nicely done.

Not bad. They paid for my camera, up front. Now they have me on retainer for the value of the cam. I get paid by the hour, on top of my regular salary. It's great experience for me. I get paid to learn these techniques and get to drink the leftover beer after I'm done. Woohoo!

Hey Talya, Congrats on the freelance job with the NY Post. Wow! Way to go!

Message edited by author 2004-01-28 13:00:14.

willem

Sony Alpha a6700

01/28/2004 02:07:55 PM · #6

Congrats and well done.

You managed to get a good balance between all the things that you wanted to show, in my opinion (just as a consumer and photographer with an interest in product shots, not involved in advertising). A nice glass of dark beer with an attractive glow to it, a clear recognisable and colorful brand, the drops on the glass and even a nice glow on the glass itself to give it a good sense of depth, and the white background as required.

And each version was improved over the next.

What did you change in the final setup, move the light from underneath more to the front, to create the glow and contrast in the glass and drops ? How did you finally get the drops you wanted ?

peecee

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/28/2004 02:33:50 PM · #7

Looks great Mario,
Paul.

01/28/2004 02:39:56 PM · #8

Originally posted by willem:

Congrats and well done.

What did you change in the final setup, move the light from underneath more to the front, to create the glow and contrast in the glass and drops ? How did you finally get the drops you wanted ?

My final setup consisted of the 2000W of lights plus the flashlight. The final setup was as follows:

- Glass in the cocoon
- 500W Tungsten in the back (1 foot away)
- 2 x 500W Tungsten at 45Â° (1.5 feet away)
- 1 x 500W halogen underneath (1 foot away, slightly in front)
- maglite (did not have any effect on lighting the beer so I used it to punch up the logo)
- drops were created using glycerin and water (2/3:1/3 ratio) sprayed on using plant mister. Glass was partly filled, put in place and then sprayed with the mixture. Could not get them round, whatever I did. Tried the moisture idea, but produced very runny drops, and gave the glass a haze
- beer head generated by using turkey baster (sp?) to suck up some beer and squirt it back in, generating a little foaming action. This worked really well. I could fire off about 3-4 shots before head started to drop

Shot in RAW mode, boosted exposure by about 0.7, increased sat. and contrast to +1. In PS7, I mostly used curves to get the proper balance of reflection on the glass. A little spot editing (healing brush) to fix areas where reflection was too strong on the drops, and replace some overly large bubbles in the head. Finally removed the background and added a pure white BG in a new layer. A little USM, but not much was needed.

It was a great learning experience, and the next shot should be much simpler, with the things I know now, and the fact that the remaining beers are much lighter in colour.

Thanks again for all your help.

Mario

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

01/28/2004 03:05:07 PM · #9

Originally posted by mariomel:

Originally posted by RiderGal:
Congrats Mariomel! Hope you got paid well for that, especially since they are using it in so many places! Nicely done.

Not bad. They paid for my camera, up front. Now they have me on retainer for the value of the cam. I get paid by the hour, on top of my regular salary. It's great experience for me. I get paid to learn these techniques and get to drink the leftover beer after I'm done. Woohoo!

Hey Talya, Congrats on the freelance job with the NY Post. Wow! Way to go!

That one shot should of paid for the 300d alone... make sure you charging enough!

Beagleboy

Canon EOS-30D

01/28/2004 04:09:14 PM · #10

Excellent shot and great work. I don't mean to nitpick but, is it just me, or does the image seem to be tilting slightly to the right?

01/28/2004 08:24:51 PM · #11

Originally posted by Beagleboy:

Excellent shot and great work. I don't mean to nitpick but, is it just me, or does the image seem to be tilting slightly to the right?

I think you're correct. I will adjust it about .25Â° counter clockwise before I send it to the graphists.

01/30/2004 10:37:07 AM · #12

Originally posted by MeThoS:

Originally posted by RiderGal:
Congrats Mariomel! Hope you got paid well for that, especially since they are using it in so many places! Nicely done.

That one shot should of paid for the 300d alone... make sure you charging enough!

Just curious. You guys got me thinking. How much should one typically charge for a photo like this?

Right now, I'm not getting cash for these, but rather working off the cost of the cam. Just want to make sure that they're getting a deal, but I'm not being getting ripped.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

01/30/2004 03:16:30 PM · #13

Originally posted by mariomel:

Originally posted by MeThoS:

Originally posted by RiderGal:
Congrats Mariomel! Hope you got paid well for that, especially since they are using it in so many places! Nicely done.

That one shot should of paid for the 300d alone... make sure you charging enough!

Just curious. You guys got me thinking. How much should one typically charge for a photo like this?

Right now, I'm not getting cash for these, but rather working off the cost of the cam. Just want to make sure that they're getting a deal, but I'm not being getting ripped.

Depends on the market, the assignment, usage , etc.

Here's an example of packaging photography that I would quote.

Day rate $1200-$1500
Digital image capture and post processing (depends on the amount of shots) but usually over $500
props $100 or more
Assistants $100 a day for each one
misc. expenses $50-100

That beer mug would of been a day shoot...remember, your working even when your not actually behind the camera. Thinking about how to set it up, researching, etc.

say if you had a location shoot. actual shooting time might be an hour. but by the time you load up, set up, tear down, unload. There's 3/4 of the day. So can you bill another client for a 1/4 of the day? Probably not. You should bill the client for the whole day since they consumed the majority of the day and there is now way you can make up the lost income for that day.

There are great photographers out there who fail to make it, and there are crappy photographers that make it big because they charge enough to stay in business. My mentor was a way better business man than a photographer (but he was damn good photography). I learned a lot about the business side of things from him. Since he will be retiring in Hawaii very soon, I think I'll take his biz model to heart. ;D

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D

01/30/2004 03:27:28 PM · #14

Originally posted by MeThoS:

Day rate $1200-$1500
Digital image capture and post processing (depends on the amount of shots) but usually over $500
props $100 or more
Assistants $100 a day for each one
misc. expenses $50-100

I think you've paid off your camera there Mario. :-)

Edit: Fantastic shot, btw!! :-)

Message edited by author 2004-01-30 15:31:58.

jxpfeer

Nikon D70

01/30/2004 03:30:07 PM · #15

nice dude! excellent work :)

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

01/30/2004 03:44:05 PM · #16

Great work and great final shot

01/30/2004 03:52:00 PM · #17

Originally posted by MeThoS:

That beer mug would of been a day shoot...remember, your working even when your not actually behind the camera. Thinking about how to set it up, researching, etc.

So from what you're saying, all my prep time (trial shots, getting the lighting just right, drop testing, etc) counts as billable time. Doesn't it matter the fact that I had very little experience in this field when I started? I shouldn't charge for my "learning curve", should I?

After looking at your portfolio (AWESOME stuff, BTW) you are obviously not an amateur. You make your living at this and have been doing it for some time. What would you have charged when you were starting out?

Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM

01/30/2004 07:14:58 PM · #18

Originally posted by mariomel:

Originally posted by MeThoS:

That beer mug would of been a day shoot...remember, your working even when your not actually behind the camera. Thinking about how to set it up, researching, etc.

So from what you're saying, all my prep time (trial shots, getting the lighting just right, drop testing, etc) counts as billable time. Doesn't it matter the fact that I had very little experience in this field when I started? I shouldn't charge for my "learning curve", should I?

After looking at your portfolio (AWESOME stuff, BTW) you are obviously not an amateur. You make your living at this and have been doing it for some time. What would you have charged when you were starting out?

Since they are getting a hell of a deal by you shooting it, then yes, I think all the learning curve time should go with it. It's part of the deal. Even top pro's have to take test shots and try new things. Which they bill for it.

Just be taken advantage of. They are getting an extremely discounted rate by you shooting it. Your billable time should start as soon as you flip the light switch in the room your shooting. ;D

Here's an example of what I worked on for the past 2 days, keep in mind that it already was converted to CMYK and converted back to RGB to post here. I didn't tweek it fo rthe web since it's just a product shot.

Message edited by author 2004-01-30 19:19:04.

melking

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III

01/31/2004 07:10:08 AM · #19

MeThoS and mariomel very nice shots, Mariomel don't drink to much of that beer....I live on the Boarder of Quebec maybe I will see it in Fermount! Never know I will keep my eyes out of it

Melissa

02/02/2004 12:27:56 PM · #20

Brent, Thanks for the advice. Nice photo BTW, I'm sure it's not easy taking a photo of something so large, good use of the angled shot to make it fit and give it perspective.

Compared to your current rates, what would you have charged when you were just starting out?

Melanie, I'm not sure about Fermount, but you can surely find some in Baie Comeau or Sept-Iles. Good luck. If you like beer, you should love McAuslan's. .

Thanks for the comments.

Message edited by author 2004-02-02 12:28:34.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/02/2004 02:52:27 PM · #21

like I said , it depends on the market. Out of town assignments get billed at a much higher rate to fit the market. Just find out what other photographers are charging in your area and charge a simliar rate. Within a couple of hundred anyway. ;D

Spork99

OM System OM-1

02/02/2004 03:05:01 PM · #22

Originally posted by mariomel:

Didn't your company pay to have these shots done previously? What was your company paying for these shots before they brought it in-house for you to do? Did they ever send the work out for bids?

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/02/2004 05:05:35 PM · #23

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Didn't your company pay to have these shots done previously? What was your company paying for these shots before they brought it in-house for you to do? Did they ever send the work out for bids?

They used to use a PRO. She started out small many years ago, and developped into a top product photographer. She now charges big $$$ and does products shots for McD's and the like. We were using her sparingly, as we do not have big budgets for things like this.

We are still a small company, struggling to keep things profitable. If this was a larger comapny, with lots of cash, I would have no problem charging much more. Then again, I might not have been given the chance to do it, had it been a BIG company.

So yes, they would be paying more if they didn't have me, but I'm not a pro, so cannot really justify charging the big $$$. I'm getting there (I hope) and will start to up my rates as I get more work and more experienced. For now, I'm learning, but still getting paid to do it.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

02/02/2004 07:45:18 PM · #24

Originally posted by mariomel:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Didn't your company pay to have these shots done previously? What was your company paying for these shots before they brought it in-house for you to do? Did they ever send the work out for bids?

They used to use a PRO. She started out small many years ago, and developped into a top product photographer. She now charges big $$$ and does products shots for McD's and the like. We were using her sparingly, as we do not have big budgets for things like this.

We are still a small company, struggling to keep things profitable. If this was a larger comapny, with lots of cash, I would have no problem charging much more. Then again, I might not have been given the chance to do it, had it been a BIG company.

So yes, they would be paying more if they didn't have me, but I'm not a pro, so cannot really justify charging the big $$$. I'm getting there (I hope) and will start to up my rates as I get more work and more experienced. For now, I'm learning, but still getting paid to do it.

If you are working for profit, you are now a pro. Admittedly, you may not command the rates that your company paid her, but that should at least give you an idea of how much is too much.

I was not thinking that you should charge your own company that much, since I would say that you owe it to them, at least for now, for taking a chance on you to operate within their budget as much as possible.

You might want to take the job and shop it around other photographers locally, or regionally, to get other quotes. That should give you a better idea.