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09/18/2009 06:12:40 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Since having a baby daughter I have been very conscious of the need to protect her from religious thought (especially religious fundamentalism) and preserve her critical thinking skills. It makes me realise how many schools and child support organisations have a religious bias - very troubling. |
+1 |
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09/18/2009 08:14:53 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Nullix:
It seems having kids brings you closer to God. |
Really? Considering that we had 13 (yes 13) kids in our family one would think we would all be real close to God, but we weren't. Maybe people believe that because they tend to call out to God a lot more often if they have a large number of children.
Ray |
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09/18/2009 09:10:19 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by SDW:
I'm not going to get into a debate about religion but I will give you my opinion concerning your original post.
I'm a Christian and believe the word of the Bible (and no  Nullix I'm not ignorant).
Personally I don't know how someone can go through the things they do without God. It's faith that keeps me strong and knowing I know His son, Jesus Christ.
ETA: I don't question my faith. |
I question yours though.
What keeps me going is knowing I have the common sense and logic to understand that fictitious men in the sky are fabrications by people who wanted nothing but to control their flock/herds/tribes/civilizations.
To the OP, you have nothing to be jealous about, in fact, you're on the right track when you ask questions about things that are taken for granted and believed just because ma and pa believed in them. Keep asking questions, that's the only way our species will rid itself of old medieval prehistoric beliefs that should have been removed from our civilizations eons ago. I have faith in that Homo Sapiens will rid itself of these childish beliefs and continue to expand its knowledge of how we got to where we are today by investigating fossil finds and formulating theories that may help to understand our evolution to where we are today. The Bible cannot even come close to explaining anything of significance except how to punish, kill and start wars in the name of a God.
Believe in me or die in hell burning an eternal death. How nice of your god to persuade me into believing he is all good. sic |
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09/18/2009 09:17:00 AM · #29 |
Do you know how much time I spend a day thinking about whacky ass shit like haldron colliders and what if the matrix was real?
Not to mention the one that always messes up my head:
Colors are totally made up. What we see as red and green and blue arne't really red or green or blue, but thats just how we see them. So potentially color blindness isn't really blindness, but true color awareness.
I could think about that...or just think "God created everything, therefore what we see is right and true, therefore red is indeed red"
I would save hours a day. |
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09/18/2009 09:17:50 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Sioux:
As far as the creation of man (versus we evolved from monkeys - good grief)... |
This is a bit of a sidetrack, but that is not what the theory of evolution says. Monkeys and we are separate branches on the evolutionary tree, coming from the same trunk ("primates"). How I deal with evolution vs creation, in any case, is that evolution is part of God's creation, part and parcel of it. I see no reason that one can't believe in God and still accept the proven reality of evolution within His creations.
R. |
Excuse me Bear but that is utter bullshit. I saw this coming a long time ago. Mixing up facts with religious beliefs is going to make things even worse for everyone and just slow down the whole evolutionary process of getting rid of these childish beliefs in a god.
Part in parcel, what a joke!
Message edited by author 2009-09-18 09:19:00. |
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09/18/2009 09:18:51 AM · #31 |
Oh and Math. Math totally boggles my head...
Its a system created by man that can be used to explain on some level everything in the universe, but since its created by man, its not so much an absolute.
1 is only 1 because we call it one, but in reality, one could be 2, as its just a name. |
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09/18/2009 09:19:31 AM · #32 |
| Yo jerks, totally not the way I was going with this thread, I don't want fighting, I just wanted to say how it amazes me. |
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09/18/2009 09:39:58 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Yo jerks, totally not the way I was going with this thread, I don't want fighting, I just wanted to say how it amazes me. |
Too late, sonny. Religion thread 'round here always get heated...surely you knew this going in.
Several hundred Proofs that God exists
..and the corollary:
300 Disproofs of God's existence
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09/18/2009 09:46:03 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Yo jerks, totally not the way I was going with this thread, I don't want fighting, I just wanted to say how it amazes me. |
Who you calling jerks? I'm not fighting with anyone here. This is how I communicate with the believers. Sorry if you find it offensive, that is not my intention.
I believe in what I believe because my brain cannot accept the untruths that have been handed down from generation to generation. I tried to become a believer a long time ago but I never felt comfortable believing blindly in things people told me based on a book written by many many men throughout many many centuries. (Forty or so authors over 1400-1800 years) Doesn't that make you think that the stories were embellished just a wee bit? I don't know why you believe and I don't, really.
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09/18/2009 09:48:30 AM · #35 |
| I edited the first page to add in a little foot note. |
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09/18/2009 09:58:26 AM · #36 |
| Don't be jealous. Be glad that you are able to utilize logic and critical thinking and stand on your own two feet, rather than being part of the herd and requiring support from some "other" to live your life in an ethical manner. |
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09/18/2009 10:26:16 AM · #37 |
| If this is a thread about Passion and Blind faith, that is something you have had since the day you where born. As a child, Love, food, warmth, and shelter, all Passion and Blind faith. I read your Blog are you still getting married, that is also Passion and Blind faith. |
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09/18/2009 11:27:26 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Sioux:
As far as the creation of man (versus we evolved from monkeys - good grief)... |
This is a bit of a sidetrack, but that is not what the theory of evolution says. Monkeys and we are separate branches on the evolutionary tree, coming from the same trunk ("primates"). How I deal with evolution vs creation, in any case, is that evolution is part of God's creation, part and parcel of it. I see no reason that one can't believe in God and still accept the proven reality of evolution within His creations.
R. |
I think religious people, particularly those who take their religious books literally, are right to be afraid of the theory of evolution. With evolution, one ends up with a much vaguer God than most people accept. If one accepts evolutionary theory, then:
1) Literal creationism rather goes out the window - Adam & Eve were clearly not formed by God out of dust & a rib.
2) Those who accept creation stories as metaphors rather than as literal descriptions of what actually happened still run into trouble if they believe that humans are the central point of God & the universe. It's difficult to imagine a God whose ultimate purpose is to create humans going the haphazard, chancy route of evolution. It's much easier & makes more sense to assume that any sentient being finally created by the evolutionary process would assume that they were the whole purpose of it.
3) When followed through, I think the only logical conclusion that combines a "God as creator" & evolution is that God wasn't particularly interested in humans per se, but simply is a creator of the universe who regards all his/her creation (past, present & future) as equal - humans, aliens if there be such, birds, lizards, etc. Unfortunately, this doesn't jibe at all with most peoples concept of God, nor with their main reasons for believing in a God.
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09/18/2009 11:59:41 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Since having a baby daughter I have been very conscious of the need to protect her from religious thought (especially religious fundamentalism) and preserve her critical thinking skills. It makes me realise how many schools and child support organisations have a religious bias - very troubling. |
I would also avoid any religion that removes critical thinking skills.
I'd me more worried about the secular media that wants to sexualize your preteen daughter and sell to her.
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09/18/2009 12:07:26 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
If this is a thread about Passion and Blind faith, that is something you have had since the day you where born. As a child, Love, food, warmth, and shelter, all Passion and Blind faith. I read your Blog are you still getting married, that is also Passion and Blind faith. |
I understand what you are saying (and the weddings in 3 weeks) but let me put this example.
I used to roll with a lot of politically active cats when I was younger, most of them were down with anarchist thought and politics. The idea of getting arrested for going to a protest and disrupting events etc, did not phase them, because they knew they were right, and that was the cost of being right and getting your idea across.
Me on the other hand, I was never able to back that, even if I did agree with their views, the risk didn't jive right with me.
They had a certain passion that they were willing to follow to an extent where no risk was greater than the reward of getting the message out.
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09/18/2009 12:57:41 PM · #41 |
| And yet it was not in you, thats ok, it was not your drummer. In a little(3 weeks) you will become part of, and possibly after that add another part(happens),in them you might find the answers you seek. |
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09/18/2009 01:22:39 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Me on the other hand, I was never able to back that, even if I did agree with their views, the risk didn't jive right with me. |
I think the issue at hand is that you just haven't felt passionate enough about something to be moved to act.
If you were barred by your parents, your church, or the government from marrying your future wife, would you have enough passion to push you to act against them? How far would you go? Would you consider it worth it?
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09/18/2009 02:24:48 PM · #43 |
| Hahah. Oh man, thats a doozy. Ive stopped dating girls because my mother didn't like em! |
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09/18/2009 02:39:13 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Hahah. Oh man, thats a doozy. Ive stopped dating girls because my mother didn't like em! |
She isn't one herself? (runs for shelter)
R. |
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09/18/2009 02:40:56 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Ive stopped dating girls because my mother didn't like em! |
She prefers you dating guys? |
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09/18/2009 02:41:29 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Bebe:
When followed through, I think the only logical conclusion that combines a "God as creator" & evolution is that God wasn't particularly interested in humans per se, but simply is a creator of the universe who regards all his/her creation (past, present & future) as equal - humans, aliens if there be such, birds, lizards, etc. Unfortunately, this doesn't jibe at all with most peoples concept of God, nor with their main reasons for believing in a God. |
Or, arguably, He observed the evolution of His creatures and subsequently informed humankind with His spirit, thus "creating" us as intelligent beings within His already-extant creation...
R. |
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09/18/2009 02:42:31 PM · #47 |
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09/18/2009 04:53:49 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Bebe:
When followed through, I think the only logical conclusion that combines a "God as creator" & evolution is that God wasn't particularly interested in humans per se, but simply is a creator of the universe who regards all his/her creation (past, present & future) as equal - humans, aliens if there be such, birds, lizards, etc. Unfortunately, this doesn't jibe at all with most peoples concept of God, nor with their main reasons for believing in a God. |
Or, arguably, He observed the evolution of His creatures and subsequently informed humankind with His spirit, thus "creating" us as intelligent beings within His already-extant creation...
R. |
You're right - that works too. |
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09/18/2009 06:03:49 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Or, arguably, He observed the evolution of His creatures and subsequently informed humankind with His spirit, thus "creating" us as intelligent beings within His already-extant creation...
R. |
There is no "arguably" about it - your stories will "win" every time. If you posit that there is an omniscient and omnipotent god-like being (ignoring the incompatibility of this with the concept of our free will), then the creation stories are limitless. You can invent absolutely anything, then say "and then god made it undetectable".
It's a hollow victory every time - but there is no arguing against it. No matter how many men devote their lives and their fortunes into researching the factual history of life and the universe, religion can always claim the most remarkable human discoveries for its own with another effortless tweak to the story.
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09/18/2009 06:23:48 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Or, arguably, He observed the evolution of His creatures and subsequently informed humankind with His spirit, thus "creating" us as intelligent beings within His already-extant creation...
R. |
There is no "arguably" about it - your stories will "win" every time. If you posit that there is an omniscient and omnipotent god-like being (ignoring the incompatibility of this with the concept of our free will), then the creation stories are limitless. You can invent absolutely anything, then say "and then god made it undetectable".
It's a hollow victory every time - but there is no arguing against it. No matter how many men devote their lives and their fortunes into researching the factual history of life and the universe, religion can always claim the most remarkable human discoveries for its own with another effortless tweak to the story. |
Well, regardless of the loaded presentation, that isn't MY position. I was just throwing up another perspective to go with Bebe's either/or...
R. |
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