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09/17/2009 02:50:22 PM · #1 |
of people that are able to blindly follow a religion. I was reading another forum that is a fundamentalist christian site, and such a site draws in many many trolls. I was amazed to see that even in the face of what many would believe to be unquestionable proof of certain things, they were able to shoot them down with something as simple as "well its in the bible, so its true"
I wish I was able to believe in something so whole heartedly that I was able to dismiss anything despite how logical it was, if it didn't fall into my standard belief set.
For example, someone questioned them about fossils and dinosaurs, to which they replied that dinosaurs and man at one point coexisted, but after the great flood, the dinosaur was hunted to extinction by man for food and sport.
***THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT RELIGION ITS A THREAD ABOUT PASSION AND BLIND FAITH...SO NO BICKERING YOU BICKERERS***
Message edited by author 2009-09-18 09:44:48. |
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09/17/2009 03:08:53 PM · #2 |
I wouldn't be too jealous. They're blissful in their ignorance.
Those of us who believe also have our stumbling blocks with our religion. I don't think you can be whole heartedly in a religion, but you can get pretty close. |
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09/17/2009 03:26:13 PM · #3 |
See im also jealous of people with that blissful ignorance.
Screw free will and logic! |
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09/17/2009 03:45:31 PM · #4 |
I'm not going to get into a debate about religion but I will give you my opinion concerning your original post.
I'm a Christian and believe the word of the Bible (and no  Nullix I'm not ignorant).
Personally I don't know how someone can go through the things they do without God. It's faith that keeps me strong and knowing I know His son, Jesus Christ.
ETA: I don't question my faith.
Message edited by author 2009-09-17 16:09:34. |
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09/17/2009 03:52:52 PM · #5 |
I don't know that I "blindly" follow religion, though it would probably be easier if I did.
I've been "on a journey," especially the past couple of years, questioning what I believe, figuring out the WHY I believe it, etc.
The more I seek, the more answers I find, and the more my faith in Christ has grown.
Sometimes, when that paradigm shifts, it is quite scary. |
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09/17/2009 03:54:25 PM · #6 |
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09/17/2009 03:58:16 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by SDW:
I'm not going to get into a debate about religion but I will give you my opinion concerning your original post.
I'm a Christian and believe the word of the Bible (and no Nullix I'm not ignorant).
Personally I don't know how someone can go through the things they do without God. It's faith that keeps me strong and knowing I know his son, Jesus Christ. |
I don't the world as black and white. I too am a christian, but I believe in God and Jesus, not in the fact that every single little word in the bible is true when in fact it's meant to be read at a second degree. And I certainly do not believe that dinosaurs, and were extinct around 65 millions years ago (yes millions!) live at the same time as men. I once read someone saying that fossils were put in the ground by God Himself to test our faith. And I also believe that a man accross the planet can believe God is something completely different and we can still be both right (the true nature of God being impossible for a human mind to grasp)
I see what ajdelaware means when he says he's jealous. Some people can refte any argument by saying "it's in the bible so it's true". I'm glad I'm not that blind, but those people live in bliss and they are so happy for it.
Questionning one's own faith is not denying it, but it sure takes a lot of courage.
Edited because I sue the wrong name as the original poster
Message edited by author 2009-09-17 15:59:09. |
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09/17/2009 04:24:17 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
they were able to shoot them down with something as simple as "well its in the bible, so its true" |
The problem with this is that they are using the document in question as proof with someone who is questioning the validity of that very document. The logic does not connect. Reminds me of telling a 4 year old "because I said so", but it's not nearly as effective. |
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09/17/2009 04:25:29 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
they were able to shoot them down with something as simple as "well its in the bible, so its true" |
The problem with this is that they are using the document in question as proof with someone who is questioning the validity of that very document. |
Yeah.. that too.... |
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09/17/2009 04:26:22 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
they were able to shoot them down with something as simple as "well its in the bible, so its true" |
The problem with this is that they are using the document in question as proof with someone who is questioning the validity of that very document. The logic does not connect. Reminds me of telling a 4 year old "because I said so", but it's not nearly as effective. |
Doesn't matter. That was said to them as well, and these cats replied with "Well the bible is Gods word, there fore it is true and correct, because God is perfect, therefore the bible is perfect"
It was wild, and slightly commendable. |
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09/17/2009 04:28:00 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
of people that are able to blindly follow a religion. I was reading another forum that is a fundamentalist christian site, and such a site draws in many many trolls. I was amazed to see that even in the face of what many would believe to be unquestionable proof of certain things, they were able to shoot them down with something as simple as "well its in the bible, so its true"
I wish I was able to believe in something so whole heartedly that I was able to dismiss anything despite how logical it was, if it didn't fall into my standard belief set.
For example, someone questioned them about fossils and dinosaurs, to which they replied that dinosaurs and man at one point coexisted, but after the great flood, the dinosaur was hunted to extinction by man for food and sport. |
My personal opinion on the dinosaurs is that they were, of course, here and real. The Bible speaks of God creating the world in 7 days, but who is to say what a "day" is for God? The Bible was written with some leeway in simplifying things for us poor humans to understand. We don't really need the whole explanation of how our ecosystem developed, do we?
As far as the creation of man (versus we evolved from monkeys - good grief), I believe it was that spark of intelligence that God gave man to make us what we are today. I marvel at the world around me and all the modern technology. We could give monkeys all the time in the world and I doubt they'd ever come up with a digital camera :) There is a reason the "missing link" is still missing.
I am by no means a Biblical scholar and there are things I'm not certain of in the Bible. However, I do unquestionably believe in the existence of God. I have seen His work and, yes, I do talk to Him daily.
To believe does not mean one must give up logic. I enjoy the questioning and the testing of my belief system. Not everything can be defined and put in its own little logical cubby hole. I have seen the power of prayer. Incurable diseases cured with no logical explanation. A very dear friend of mine was given 6 months max to live due to a very degenerated heart. There was, and still is, praying galore. That was two years ago. He has not been in the hospital for over a year, was recently married, and is in better overall health than he was 10 years ago.
Sometimes our faith gets tested. Do I know why God chooses to test any particular being? Nope. But I was one of them a few years back. There was one devastating event after another piled onto me. Had I been without God, I may very well have broken. But I knew He was there and I knew He'd help me through it. Was that blind faith? Perhaps, but I don't think so. I have questioned the existence of God and, even though I don't understand everything, I must conclude He is real. Want to know when my "testing" ended? When the final thing was placed on my back and the burden became too much. I hadn't asked God for relief up til that point - just help in getting through. But at that time we talked and I did ask for that final straw to be removed. And it was. I know that's all very vague, but this is a public forum and any details would be taking a chance people who wronged me would be recognized by others. Lol - that's vaguer still. Sigh.
Can I make a suggestion? Read "The Shack" by William P. Young. Its not all preachy and "God is wonderful - don't question Him!". Its about a guy who had a perfectly good reason to question God. The first four chapters are a bit of a bummer, but if you make it through that you'll have a good idea of what I think God is like. If I may, I'd like to send you a copy. Just pm me your address.
Gosh, this is a long post. Hope it doesn't count as a rant! |
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09/17/2009 04:28:08 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by SDW:
ETA: I don't question my faith. |
Why not?
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09/17/2009 04:33:26 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by SDW:
ETA: I don't question my faith. |
Why not? |
Why?
Questioning faith is a lot different (to me) than questioning a belief (or religion if that is the word that gets used).
eta: I'm not being antagonizing, but a lot of times faith=religion to some, but to many, the two are "related" but not one and the same.
Message edited by author 2009-09-17 16:34:59. |
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09/17/2009 04:37:12 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by SDW:
ETA: I don't question my faith. |
Why not? |
Why?
Questioning faith is a lot different (to me) than questioning a belief (or religion if that is the word that gets used).
eta: I'm not being antagonizing, but a lot of times faith=religion to some, but to many, the two are "related" but not one and the same. |
But isn't faith that something is true based on some internal belief that it's true? If you questioned your faith, would it not also lead you to question your beliefs? |
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09/17/2009 04:42:41 PM · #15 |
I guess where I'm having difficulty is understanding how to actually questioning my faith. don't.
Even if there are times when I waiver in faith (and I do), there is still an underlying belief that there IS a God and things will swing the other direction in due time.
Questioning my beliefs, and studying, seeking out answers, ironically, has actually strengthened my faith. |
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09/17/2009 05:14:21 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by karmat:
I guess where I'm having difficulty is understanding how to actually questioning my faith. don't.
Even if there are times when I waiver in faith (and I do), there is still an underlying belief that there IS a God and things will swing the other direction in due time.
Questioning my beliefs, and studying, seeking out answers, ironically, has actually strengthened my faith. |
She's making an excellent point; there is a profound difference between "faith" and "belief".
R. |
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09/17/2009 05:16:15 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by SDW:
ETA: I don't question my faith. |
Why not? |
I'll just quote faith from the Bible and it also is the reason I don't question my faith.
Hebrew 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Substance being the key word, meaning "assurance". |
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09/17/2009 05:17:35 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Sioux:
As far as the creation of man (versus we evolved from monkeys - good grief)... |
This is a bit of a sidetrack, but that is not what the theory of evolution says. Monkeys and we are separate branches on the evolutionary tree, coming from the same trunk ("primates"). How I deal with evolution vs creation, in any case, is that evolution is part of God's creation, part and parcel of it. I see no reason that one can't believe in God and still accept the proven reality of evolution within His creations.
R. |
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09/17/2009 05:26:24 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Sioux:
As far as the creation of man (versus we evolved from monkeys - good grief)... |
This is a bit of a sidetrack, but that is not what the theory of evolution says. Monkeys and we are separate branches on the evolutionary tree, coming from the same trunk ("primates"). How I deal with evolution vs creation, in any case, is that evolution is part of God's creation, part and parcel of it. I see no reason that one can't believe in God and still accept the proven reality of evolution within His creations.
R. |
It's a timeline thing, and a Garden of Eden thing.
Without Creation as it is laid out in the Bible, you don't have God creating man seperately from all other things, and that special relationship is gone. Without the Garden of Eden you don't have original sin, without original sin, you don't have the basis that all are sinners and therefore in need of salvation. Without the need for salvation, you don't have a need for a savior.
Also, there are those that believe by tracking backwards from the linage passage in Matthew (i beleive) that the universe is only 5,000 - 10,000 years old. There's not enough time for macro evolution, only micro evolution (as in the differences in finches pointed out by Darwin.)
I am not saying I subscribe to this, but that is how it is explained to me by friends and family that consider themselves fundalmentalists.
Message edited by author 2009-09-17 17:27:03. |
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09/17/2009 08:17:34 PM · #20 |
euw...doubles. the gods are messing with me...hehehe.
Message edited by author 2009-09-17 20:17:59. |
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09/17/2009 08:17:34 PM · #21 |
OP,
You were on a fundamentalist christian site. You will get fundamentalist christian answers. If you were on an Islam site, you would get Islam answers. A Buddhist site will give you Buddhist answers. I think, in all cases, their answers are based on their faith, formed by their belief. From the outside looking in, it will probably always be interesting but illogical.
Its funny. I was at an art show talking to painters. Ask them why they did something, they say because that is the way its supposed to be. Ask them why again, and you get an answer similar to the faith and belief answers from religion (just for an example, why the rule of thirds? ask a neophyte photographer, and they probably can't really tell you why, only that its true).
Of course, I fully believe that blind faith is dangerous (just ask the branch davidians), no matter what the circumstance. If you have no idea why you believe something, you really need to question your beliefs. Once you've answered the questions, your faith either grows stronger or you give up the belief. And that goes for religion and art and anything else in life. Remember when we were little kids and we were sure the opposite sex had cooties? Like that...
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09/17/2009 08:50:14 PM · #22 |
| Oh I understand perfectly well on why I was seeing the answers I was seeing, but its more the fact that they can stand by them with such conviction, even in the face of scientific proof. |
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09/17/2009 08:54:21 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
euw...doubles. the gods are messing with me...hehehe. |
Stick to monotheism and you'll only get one. ;-) |
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09/18/2009 12:09:42 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Personally I don't know how someone can go through the things they do without God. It's faith that keeps me strong and knowing I know His son, Jesus Christ. |
Preaching to the choir.
I have 3 boys all under 5. I spend every day praying to God for help. We look forward to our Sunday family/church day.
It seems having kids brings you closer to God. |
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09/18/2009 03:52:43 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Nullix:
I have 3 boys all under 5. I spend every day praying to God for help. We look forward to our Sunday family/church day.
It seems having kids brings you closer to God. |
I am very much the reverse. Richard Dawkins draws associations between the teaching of religion to children and brainwashing, which he regards as child abuse. I have a lot of sympathy with that view.
Since having a baby daughter I have been very conscious of the need to protect her from religious thought (especially religious fundamentalism) and preserve her critical thinking skills. It makes me realise how many schools and child support organisations have a religious bias - very troubling.
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