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09/14/2009 02:18:43 PM · #926 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
And you don't have to look much further than Rush Limbaugh to see in plain language how or in what line some people think. Then you have Bill O'Reilly and then there's Glenn Beck and then Sean Hannity and Newt Gingrich's calling out of Sonia Sotomayor as a racists.
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I have relatives that watch FOX news. They are listening to every word as fact when most of it is misconceptions and often full out lies. Why do they watch it? Because it's not nearly as boring as the truth.
When the subject comes up they ask me "if they do lie, then why doesn't the president or anybody they are slandering sue him?" Well, the answer is because they are public officials. If you slander or libel and private citizen, all the citizen has to do is prove that it is a lie. If you slander or libel a public official, it is the burden of that official to prove that the defendant KNEW it was a lie. That is impossible. This law is there for some very good reasons, but FOX is taking full advantage. Sean Hannity accused Obama of trying to indoctrinate our children. Good lord! He (and his friends) sure have an easy hold on a good chunk of our fellow citizens.
The boring truth here folks is that we have a smart president who wants to fix things. He's trying like hell to compromise with those who disagree. He's not shoving anything down our throats even after Clinton advised him to. He's up front and honest and very public. The falling unemployment rate has slowed down, the dow is rising, and we have a chance to finally regulate the private institutions that have been taking more and more money from us every year. You know who I'm talking about. We've all been bitching about them for years and now that somebody is trying to do something about it we want to protect them.
Change the freakin' channel!!!
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09/14/2009 02:19:03 PM · #927 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
So I guess the dems have more assholes but the reps have a bigger one? |
One? ...One???
I forgot to mention Ann Coulter... |
Ann Coulter is now an elected member of the House or Senate? |
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09/14/2009 02:55:01 PM · #928 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Couple points here:
Wilson yelled "you lie" a little louder then several dems booed and grumbled at Bush. So I guess the dems have more assholes but the reps have a bigger one? What is your point? It's okay to grumble just a little as long as no one can hear what you said? I'm only guessing, but I'm guessing the grumblings were equally offensive as "you lie".
You can't justify the grumbling because you agree with their reason for grumbling. Wilson felt he had good reason too, lots of us could justify what Wilson did by saying Obama is trying to tax us to death and steal our healthcare coverage. |
I see a rather important distinction here. Wilson made a conscious decision to castigate the President and label him a "liar" when, in fact, the language of the proposed bill that the President was referring to explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Therefore Wilson was NOT simply disapproving of the President's policies or position, and was not only incorrect in doing so, but by his action, trying to directly undercut the message and further disseminate an untruth about the plan. There have always been grumblings, "boos" and party-line reactions in sessions, but rarely anything like what Wilson did.
Additionally, your comment about "trying to tax us to death and steal our healthcare coverage" is also off-base on the topic of healthcare, as per the directives that he has laid out, deficit neutral and a public option - the emphasis on option.
On a lighter note, Wilson is probably thanking Kanye West for following his lead and directing some of the press off of him. They both should be required to attend etiquette and tact classes. |
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09/14/2009 02:58:28 PM · #929 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
So I guess the dems have more assholes but the reps have a bigger one? |
One? ...One???
I forgot to mention Ann Coulter... (another pearl)
I have no idea what they were booing about to be honest. I do think Bush, at that point probably earned a good rap on the head at around 2005. Mission Accomplished!
He chalked up enough bad statistics and stumbles, to historic proportion...a world class collection of reasons for some booing but that's just my opinion. Obama hasn't been around long enough OR done anything so bad as to f*#k-up the country any worse than the piss poor condition in which he found it. Certainly not enough, to earn the vitriol that has been thrown at him with such force and anger whereas Bush had plenty of deeds on his hands to pack a punch. Bush got off easy as far as I'm concerned. |
Okay, so it was fine to boo and heckle Bush because you disagreed with what he was doing. If people disagree with Obama and do it, shame on them because you agree with Obama. Great logic there.
If the video is the same as the one I seen the other day, they were booing as he said social security is all messed up. |
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09/14/2009 03:06:41 PM · #930 |
Originally posted by signal2noise:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Couple points here:
Wilson yelled "you lie" a little louder then several dems booed and grumbled at Bush. So I guess the dems have more assholes but the reps have a bigger one? What is your point? It's okay to grumble just a little as long as no one can hear what you said? I'm only guessing, but I'm guessing the grumblings were equally offensive as "you lie".
You can't justify the grumbling because you agree with their reason for grumbling. Wilson felt he had good reason too, lots of us could justify what Wilson did by saying Obama is trying to tax us to death and steal our healthcare coverage. |
I see a rather important distinction here. Wilson made a conscious decision to castigate the President and label him a "liar" when, in fact, the language of the proposed bill that the President was referring to explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Therefore Wilson was NOT simply disapproving of the President's policies or position, and was not only incorrect in doing so, but by his action, trying to directly undercut the message and further disseminate an untruth about the plan. There have always been grumblings, "boos" and party-line reactions in sessions, but rarely anything like what Wilson did.
Additionally, your comment about "trying to tax us to death and steal our healthcare coverage" is also off-base on the topic of healthcare, as per the directives that he has laid out, deficit neutral and a public option - the emphasis on option.
On a lighter note, Wilson is probably thanking Kanye West for following his lead and directing some of the press off of him. They both should be required to attend etiquette and tact classes. |
First, note that the law says illegals can't enter the country and can't work either. I believe Wilson was trying to put better safegaurds in place (or supported them) and was shot down by dems who don't want cardchecks in place.
Second, tax us to death is because it has to be budget neutral! How else are they going to pay for it? And as obama clearly said, the option is the pathway to being the only option. That is why so many will not vote for a plan without an option. Taxes will go up and if it goes as Obama sait we'll all be in the option.
Third, talking about racism, what if the tables were turned? If Beyonce was getting the award and some white guy ran up there and started ranting that some white lady should have got the award? Of course that would be racism. Kanye does it, oh it's just kanye being drunk Kanye... |
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09/14/2009 03:43:38 PM · #931 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Great logic there. |
I was comparing the depth of the matter and the motives. Rating the two incidents against each other and I scored the Dems misconduct as far lesser offense on scale and I think they had richer motives after the "if you're not with us you're against us" bullying they took. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfelds arrogance were reason enough to punch back but the Dems sadly rolled over for a year or so. They were weak.
If anybody thought the country was lost and it wasn't clear at a certain point, it was probably should have been by then. People are crying now that they want to take back their country but they're about 5 years too late. I'm also questioning the tone, the timing and what's motivating people to act the way they are. The Democrats reaction at that point was very tame considering how much leeway they gave Bush and Cheney not to mention the shape and direction we had taken as a Nation.
I can't remember the Colonels name who said she personally briefed top White House officials (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney) on information relating to Iraq during the lead-up to the war but she was highly vocal how her reports were mangled and entire bullets were left out of her reports or presented incompletely to make their case. It was pretty obvious we were being sold a load of crap but more important where were all the angry voices then?
All I could find was this link that closely relates those facts but what I'm questioning now is ALL the anger and rudeness, the accusation of lying that we are seeing. All the frothing doesn't seem inline with what we've been through by comparison. We're involved in two very costly wars where there might not be a pleasing end result not to mention a lotta dead people. Was or is that Obamas fault?
All the blame he's taking for the debt, the wars, the economic crisis simply isn't reasonable. I'm looking for a reason because if or when we do explode I'll curious to know the real reason why. Not that it'll really matter...but I'm at a loss to understand what;s behind all this. Or maybe I'm not at a loss?
eta: Please leave the tax crap alone...
We'd still be well, well under the levels of The Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, The UK, Ireland, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Greece, Iceland. Nobody here is being taxed to death. Nobody is trying to take over the means of production. Nobody's trampling on the Constitution. Give it up.
Kanye is a complete, full-metal a-hole. He should smacked down like Joe Wilson should be smacked down. He's taking his heat, as well but he never took any oath. His bread and butter is being a fool and playing to fools...so I guess he was just doing his job. There's a huge difference but I'd cane him if I was allowed (can't stand the guy). Hopefully we should hold government officials to a higher standard than a knuckle-headed, loud mouthed, MTV thug...don't you think?
Maybe MTV VMA winners should write the rules of decorum for Congress? I'm sure Emminem, Kid Rock, Pink and Vanilla Ice would make some interesting additions to their rules of conduct.
Message edited by author 2009-09-14 16:06:01. |
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09/14/2009 04:04:48 PM · #932 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Great logic there. |
I was comparing the depth of the matter and the motives. Rating the two incidents against each other and I scored the Dems misconduct as far lesser offense on scale and I think they had richer motives after the "if you're not with us you're against us" bullying they took. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfelds arrogance were reason enough to punch back but the Dems sadly rolled over for a year or so. They were weak.
If anybody thought the country was lost and it wasn't clear at a certain point, it was probably should have been by then. People are crying now that they want to take back their country but they're about 5 years too late. I'm also questioning the tone, the timing and what's motivating people to act the way they are. The Democrats reaction at that point was very tame considering how much leeway they gave Bush and Cheney not to mention the shape and direction we had taken as a Nation.
I can't remember the Colonels name who said she personally briefed top White House officials (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney) on information relating to Iraq during the lead-up to the war but she was highly vocal how her reports were mangled and entire bullets were left out of her reports or presented incompletely to make their case. It was pretty obvious we were being sold a load of crap but more important where were all the angry voices then?
All I could find was this link that closely relates those facts but what I'm questioning now is ALL the anger and rudeness, the accusation of lying that we are seeing. All the frothing doesn't seem inline with what we've been through by comparison. We're involved in two very costly wars where there might not be a pleasing end result not to mention a lotta dead people. Was or is that Obamas fault?
All the blame he's taking for the debt, the wars, the economic crisis simply isn't reasonable. I'm looking for a reason because if or when we do explode I'll curious to know the real reason why. Not that it'll really matter...but I'm at a loss to understand what;s behind all this. Or maybe I'm not at a loss?
eta: Please leave the tax crap alone...
We'd still be well, well under the levels of The Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, The UK, Ireland, Italy, Spain. Nobody here is being taxed to death. Give it up. |
So basically, your opinion is that it was okay to heckle Bush because he deserved it but it's not okay to heckle Obama because he doesn't deserve it. Got it, but i disagree. None of us have ALL the facts so 99% of this crap is opinion. Cap and trade, this stupid version of healthcare take over, cash for clunkers, the stimulus bill, the starting of a trade war with china and who knows what next is a heck of a train wreck for one year. I'm going to boo and heckle because I've already seen enough.
As for the tax to death, I'll stay on it if i want. When you pay my taxes, then you can tell me to leave it alone. I don't like paying as much taxes as i do while nearly half the country pays virtually no federal income tax. i don't want to pay as much as other countries. i think we can spend the money they take from me already much wiser. If you want to pay more, I'm sure they will take your money so go right ahead.
And why is it that the guys that want to raise our taxes don't pay theirs? Speaking of assholes... (see wrangle geightner and probably others). |
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09/14/2009 04:18:43 PM · #933 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Great logic there. |
I was comparing the depth of the matter and the motives. Rating the two incidents against each other and I scored the Dems misconduct as far lesser offense on scale and I think they had richer motives after the "if you're not with us you're against us" bullying they took. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfelds arrogance were reason enough to punch back but the Dems sadly rolled over for a year or so. They were weak.
If anybody thought the country was lost and it wasn't clear at a certain point, it was probably should have been by then. People are crying now that they want to take back their country but they're about 5 years too late. I'm also questioning the tone, the timing and what's motivating people to act the way they are. The Democrats reaction at that point was very tame considering how much leeway they gave Bush and Cheney not to mention the shape and direction we had taken as a Nation.
I can't remember the Colonels name who said she personally briefed top White House officials (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney) on information relating to Iraq during the lead-up to the war but she was highly vocal how her reports were mangled and entire bullets were left out of her reports or presented incompletely to make their case. It was pretty obvious we were being sold a load of crap but more important where were all the angry voices then?
All I could find was this link that closely relates those facts but what I'm questioning now is ALL the anger and rudeness, the accusation of lying that we are seeing. All the frothing doesn't seem inline with what we've been through by comparison. We're involved in two very costly wars where there might not be a pleasing end result not to mention a lotta dead people. Was or is that Obamas fault?
All the blame he's taking for the debt, the wars, the economic crisis simply isn't reasonable. I'm looking for a reason because if or when we do explode I'll curious to know the real reason why. Not that it'll really matter...but I'm at a loss to understand what;s behind all this. Or maybe I'm not at a loss?
eta: Please leave the tax crap alone...
We'd still be well, well under the levels of The Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, The UK, Ireland, Italy, Spain. Nobody here is being taxed to death. Give it up. |
So basically, your opinion is that it was okay to heckle Bush because he deserved it but it's not okay to heckle Obama because he doesn't deserve it. Got it, but i disagree. None of us have ALL the facts so 99% of this crap is opinion. Cap and trade, this stupid version of healthcare take over, cash for clunkers, the stimulus bill, the starting of a trade war with china and who knows what next is a heck of a train wreck for one year. I'm going to boo and heckle because I've already seen enough.
As for the tax to death, I'll stay on it if i want. When you pay my taxes, then you can tell me to leave it alone. I don't like paying as much taxes as i do while nearly half the country pays virtually no federal income tax. i don't want to pay as much as other countries. i think we can spend the money they take from me already much wiser. If you want to pay more, I'm sure they will take your money so go right ahead.
And why is it that the guys that want to raise our taxes don't pay theirs? Speaking of assholes... (see wrangle geightner and probably others). |
I think his point is that's less of an offense to booh because it can pass as "I dont not agree with you and I think you do a poor job being the president". |
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09/14/2009 04:25:24 PM · #934 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
So basically, your opinion is that it was okay to heckle Bush because he deserved it but it's not okay to heckle Obama because he doesn't deserve it. |
You got it. I don't think he deserves the level and more important the style of treatment he's been getting. Not after only 8 months in office and for whatever he's done, thus far.
Originally posted by LoudDog:
1. Cap and trade - I have no opinion
2. this stupid version of healthcare take over - It's NOT a takeover. No takeover. Nobody is taking over anything. They want to give a public option...not a taekover. No takeover. No Death Panels. Although you perfectly illustrated wording issues we all seem to be having and how the whole debate is skewing around misrepresentations. Maybe we're clear now? No takeover. Reform...Public Option.
3. cash for clunkers - I like that one. Whether it was handled smoothly or well or was it easy for the dealers, I kinda don't care a single bit. It did seem to help a lot of people out and probably breathed some life into OUR auto industry and some dealerships. I'd bet it saved some of my fellow Americans living in Detroit a lot of grief.
4. the stimulus bill - see; George Bush, Hank Paulson, Ben Bernanke. I was so for the stimulus package it's off the charts. I don't think they did enough but it appears to haved saved OUR banking system and millions of more layoffs, plus the collateral damage if Fanny, Freddie, AIG, Citicorp were left out to dry. That was no brainer. 30 plus years of derugulation starting with Reagan and letting Big Business fly freely led to the creation of companies "too big to fail". That was Republican policy backfiring at it's strongest. BOOM!
5. Picking economic fights with China is ok with me. They are pretty cutthroat and two fisted as it is. They overlook human rights and bootlegging. I have NO love for the way they do business.
The train wreck already happened. I guess you just missed it. Curious...where you were last August? Out of country I assume or maybe in some sound proofed hole without TV?
Well, I fill you in by saying that you missed a real doozy. By around mid November, just before the election, my retirement Funds lost half their value. I lost about half of consulting work...not much else happened, other than that.
Come to think of it...I too am sick to death that Obama hasn't fixed everything, even though he'd said in every single speech he made "this situation didn't occur overnight and it WON'T be fixed that quickly either".
All for now.
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Message edited by author 2009-09-14 16:44:17. |
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09/14/2009 04:32:39 PM · #935 |
Nah, you run for president of the land of bull, you get the horn.
Now, the basis for the criticism, or the alternative for the actions that are criticised - isn't there some part of town where they do that stuff? |
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09/14/2009 04:59:24 PM · #936 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by signal2noise:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Couple points here:
Wilson yelled "you lie" a little louder then several dems booed and grumbled at Bush. So I guess the dems have more assholes but the reps have a bigger one? What is your point? It's okay to grumble just a little as long as no one can hear what you said? I'm only guessing, but I'm guessing the grumblings were equally offensive as "you lie".
You can't justify the grumbling because you agree with their reason for grumbling. Wilson felt he had good reason too, lots of us could justify what Wilson did by saying Obama is trying to tax us to death and steal our healthcare coverage. |
I see a rather important distinction here. Wilson made a conscious decision to castigate the President and label him a "liar" when, in fact, the language of the proposed bill that the President was referring to explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Therefore Wilson was NOT simply disapproving of the President's policies or position, and was not only incorrect in doing so, but by his action, trying to directly undercut the message and further disseminate an untruth about the plan. There have always been grumblings, "boos" and party-line reactions in sessions, but rarely anything like what Wilson did.
Additionally, your comment about "trying to tax us to death and steal our healthcare coverage" is also off-base on the topic of healthcare, as per the directives that he has laid out, deficit neutral and a public option - the emphasis on option.
On a lighter note, Wilson is probably thanking Kanye West for following his lead and directing some of the press off of him. They both should be required to attend etiquette and tact classes. |
First, note that the law says illegals can't enter the country and can't work either. I believe Wilson was trying to put better safegaurds in place (or supported them) and was shot down by dems who don't want cardchecks in place. |
Shouting "You Lie" does not constitute "trying to put better safegaurds in place". Again, based upon the language in the bill that Obama was referring to, he was not lying.
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Second, tax us to death is because it has to be budget neutral! How else are they going to pay for it? And as obama clearly said, the option is the pathway to being the only option. That is why so many will not vote for a plan without an option. Taxes will go up and if it goes as Obama sait we'll all be in the option. |
"Tax us to death" is an illogical fear. Regarding a pathway to the "only option", I've never heard anything like that, nor do I fear/expect/reason that would ever happen. Name another gov't program that has put an entire private industry out of business.
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Third, talking about racism, what if the tables were turned? If Beyonce was getting the award and some white guy ran up there and started ranting that some white lady should have got the award? Of course that would be racism. Kanye does it, oh it's just kanye being drunk Kanye... |
My background and experience has taught me a lot about racism and I feel I have very close and distinct perspective on it. I did not bring it up in my comment or comment on your allusion to racism in the Swift/West issue and I will not discuss that topic here with you unless you can prove to me that you have truly experienced racism projected towards you and your family to a level that qualifies you to understand my perspective. I will offer that I do not think Kanye West in a racist (and the markers to determine that are very clear look up) but he is an idiot who believes his opinion to be something more than it actually is and that the world evolves around him. The supposition is that if someone does something to someone of another race, that it is rooted in racism. I would say that is very narrow-sited and delusional. Additionally, to believe that racism does not exist is equally delusional.
But on the comparison of the outbursts of West and Wilson, I cannot see condoning one and not the other. In my mind they are the same action (though I give much greater credence to the President of the United States), and would expect more from an elected official. Neither Wilson nor West seem to understand that their lack of tact, decorum and/or appropriateness of their remarks is to zero benefit to anyone but their own ego. Both opinions, while mostly subjective, may be valid, but say that in a different forum, not while this young artist is on the stage accepting her award or while the President is making a speech. Both classless, both foolish. Beyonce handled the situation admirably. |
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09/14/2009 05:02:14 PM · #937 |
Fix your links bud, you're misquoting me.
But to reply:
1. Cap and trade -
I have an opinion on it, it will cripple American manufacturing and raise our energy prices.
2. this stupid version of healthcare take over â
Obama clearly said an option would be a great path to single payer, he has said he wants single payer, and now he is pushing the option. I know we disagree on a lot but you canât think Iâm that stupid. Seriously, if Bush did something like this would you believe him? I wouldnât and I would not expect you to.
3. cash for clunkers â
Hundreds of thousands of useable cars were taken off the road and replaced with cars that have marginally better fuel economy. Very green! Free money for those that qualified, the rest of us paid for it. And it only cost 3 billion? I could see far better uses for that money. But hey, the Japanese auto makers loved it and we got a great refresher on how smooth govt give away programs work..
4. the stimulus bill -
Wrong stimulus bill, but nice rant. Feel better? The 787 billion dollar pork bill that was pork free, filled with democratic pet projects rammed down our throats because the world will stop if we donât pass it now, but we donât use scare tactics.
5. Picking economic fights with China â
When they hold all our debt and make most or our products picking a fight over the price of tires is the ultimate act of stupidity.
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09/14/2009 05:07:15 PM · #938 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
But hey, the Japanese auto makers loved it |
Well start making efficient cars, and people won't be buying japanese ones.
Message edited by author 2009-09-14 17:07:30. |
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09/14/2009 05:16:29 PM · #939 |
Originally posted by signal2noise:
Shouting "You Lie" does not constitute "trying to put better safegaurds in place". Again, based upon the language in the bill that Obama was referring to, he was not lying. |
I never said it did? He wanted better safegaurds in place and was shot down. Thus he sees it as a lie. I didn't say he was right and I will not defend what he did.
Originally posted by signal2noise:
"Tax us to death" is an illogical fear. Regarding a pathway to the "only option", I've never heard anything like that, nor do I fear/expect/reason that would ever happen. Name another gov't program that has put an entire private industry out of business. |
Believe what you want. I'm just going off what he has said, and what he is now doing. Seems logical to me.
Originally posted by signal2noise:
My background and experience has taught me a lot about racism and I feel I have very close and distinct perspective on it. I did not bring it up in my comment or comment on your allusion to racism in the Swift/West issue and I will not discuss that topic here with you unless you can prove to me that you have truly experienced racism projected towards you and your family to a level that qualifies you to understand my perspective. I will offer that I do not think Kanye West in a racist (and the markers to determine that are very clear look up) but he is an idiot who believes his opinion to be something more than it actually is and that the world evolves around him. The supposition is that if someone does something to someone of another race, that it is rooted in racism. I would say that is very narrow-sited and delusional. Additionally, to believe that racism does not exist is equally delusional.
But on the comparison of the outbursts of West and Wilson, I cannot see condoning one and not the other. In my mind they are the same action (though I give much greater credence to the President of the United States), and would expect more from an elected official. Neither Wilson nor West seem to understand that their lack of tact, decorum and/or appropriateness of their remarks is to zero benefit to anyone but their own ego. Both opinions, while mostly subjective, may be valid, but say that in a different forum, not while this young artist is on the stage accepting her award or while the President is making a speech. Both classless, both foolish. Beyonce handled the situation admirably. |
I don't need to prove anything? I'm not accusing Kanye of being racist. A white person doing the same thing would be hung for being a racist even if they were not. That's my point. Kanye just liked the other video better, had too much to drink, and is unwise. To be clear, I also do not dispute that racism exists. I just think it can go both ways.
And, Wilson was just as bad as West, or vice versa. they both screwed up royally on big scale, but agree, we expect more from wilson towards the president. |
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09/14/2009 05:53:13 PM · #940 |
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09/14/2009 05:55:22 PM · #941 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I'm not accusing Kanye of being racist. A white person doing the same thing would be hung for being a racist even if they were not. That's my point. |
And you know that your "white person" scenario would be that way....how? I'm not sure how you turned that into a racism thing and how you drew some automatic conclusion to a non-existent event. Pretty good, though. More conjecture is all we need.
I'm also for a single payer system. It works for my parents, pretty well AND it's not socialist. I'd dig having Medicare. Unless you like forking money over to insurance companies...co-pays etc. I can't see how that benefits any of us but right now anyone paying without assistance (or a company plan) is getting reamed by the costs. I could trade a slightly higher tax rate for the option of telling useless insurance companies where to shove it.
Cash for clunkers? Toyota, Honda and Nissan all have plants in the US of A. so, we do have a partnership and stake in their success as well as our own home grown car companies. Did you know they produce a good deal more small sedans and hybrids than US companies which is what sold best through the program? A point well, worth noting.
BTW if it isn't clear, I didn't drink the cool-aid and I'm not mega pro-Obama. I'm just sicked by the way I see people acting on TV everyday...on FOX news and I think we can ALL admit that there have been plenty of lies being spread that have readily been disproven that have muddied the waters. |
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09/14/2009 06:07:09 PM · #942 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I'm not accusing Kanye of being racist. A white person doing the same thing would be hung for being a racist even if they were not. That's my point. |
And you know that your "white person" scenario would be that way....how? |
You're right, I'm making a guess. But i see people calling me and others that think like me racist daily just because i don't agree with the president so i'm pretty sure if i charged the stage and stole the mic from Beyonce and ranted about how Swift should get the award, people would talk about more then me being drunk.
edit to add: and Wilson being accused of racism is even more proof I'm probably right.
Message edited by author 2009-09-14 18:08:18. |
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09/14/2009 06:22:00 PM · #943 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm also for a single payer system. It works for my parents, pretty well AND it's not socialist. I'd dig having Medicare. Unless you like forking money over to insurance companies...co-pays etc. I can't see how that benefits any of us but right now anyone paying without assistance (or a company plan) is getting reamed by the costs. I could trade a slightly higher tax rate for the option of telling useless insurance companies where to shove it. |
I also have Medicare and like it when supplemented with another insurance. By it's self the co-pays are high, the deductibles are high and it don't cover dental, vision, or prescriptions.
I assume you (and your parents) have a supplement insurance to cover the out-of-pocket cost?
Message edited by author 2009-09-14 18:35:24. |
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09/14/2009 07:24:20 PM · #944 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
[
You're right, I'm making a guess. But i see people calling me and others that think like me racist daily just because i don't agree with the president so i'm pretty sure if i charged the stage and stole the mic from Beyonce and ranted about how Swift should get the award, people would talk about more then me being drunk.
edit to add: and Wilson being accused of racism is even more proof I'm probably right. |
I see and hear the racism everyday. Most of the time the people won't even admit it but its clear to me.
Being in the Sons of confederate veterans does not make you a racist.
"Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have tendered letters of commendation to the SCV and affiliates,[4][5] as have other members of the United States Congress.
On May 25, 2009, President Barack Obama garnered praise from SCV Commander Chuck McMichael, who stated, âHe upheld the tradition of the office to which he was elected. I do intend to send him a thank you letter. This is the kind of thing that transcends politics.â This statement was in response to Obama's decision to continue the long standing tradition of the U.S. President sending a wreath to the Confederate Monument at Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day[6]. While doing that, Obama supports having the Confederate flag placed in a museum rather than a State House.
" |
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09/14/2009 07:39:39 PM · #945 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
edit to add: and Wilson being accused of racism is even more proof I'm probably right. |
Well, I said he's a racist for two reasons, one is his membership with the neo-Confederate organization which should be good enough for me to make my assumption but also his defense of a world class racist Strom Thurmond and denying that he fathered Essie Mae Washington calling it a "smear tactic" of a woman "seeking attention" whom Strom supported, as his child. Oh and he also worked as a page for Thurmond the staunchest segregationist who led a filibuster against The Civil Rights Act in '57.
I'll take a gamble that I'm right.
I was listening to something on the news a few minutes ago about the racism stuff that's been flying around for the last 5 days and that was, there's a mix of folks with legitimate gripes who are simply angry, who are blending their message in with the fringe crazies. I can certainly understand anger, distrust and all that stuff but as they stated these good honest people better be careful who they mix in with. They may be "signing a pact with the devil" and Republicans better be very, very careful about that, as well. It could so easily blow up in their faces...and most likely will as it's sure to do. It's only a matter of time but if you have legitimate points to make, make them clean because the hate stuff will take you down in flames. Combine that with bad information or lies and it's over.
Message edited by author 2009-09-14 21:19:19. |
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09/14/2009 09:47:25 PM · #946 |
//www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/healthcare/la-na-health-immigrants12-2009sep12,0,3465175.story
HAHAHAHAHA
Democrats are fixing the bill that doesn't give benefits to illegals to make sure it doesn't give benefits to illegals.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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09/14/2009 11:22:52 PM · #947 |
I just think it sucks that some want to call people racist because that may not agree with the President policies or what he says.
When Wanda Sykes joked at the 2009 White House Correspondents' Dinner saying; "This is amazing...the first black President. I know your bi-racial, but the first black President. You know...proud to be able to say that, you know 'The first black President'. You know um unless you screw up. And then it's going to be what's up with the half white guy.. haa!". To me the second half of her joke had racial undertones.
When I think of our President I don't think of his race. He is President and the only thing I care about is what he can do, for the good of our country. If I don't agree with him or if I do, it has nothing to do with the color of his skin.
The only time color should come up concerning the President is the fact that he represents a historical time in America. The First Black President.
Message edited by author 2009-09-15 00:01:09. |
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09/15/2009 12:24:27 AM · #948 |
Perhaps they are attempting to make re-word the bill so that even the opponents who wish to twist the intent of the bill are unable to put a spin on the wording that can be misconstrued. Not an easy task given the ardent feelings and lack of interest across the isle in getting anything done towards fixing a problem, which some people simply do not see as a problem. But is is a problem, even if someone might call me a liar for saying so.
Of course if we had a national health plan, we would have a national health card, like the French do. It has a small micro chip in it with your entire medical history on it, so you can go to see a new doctor and he can review your entire medical history on it. It has two great benefits, it allows maximum portability, and is a very hard identity to counterfeit. Of course it could never work here because of our fear of big government.
Message edited by author 2009-09-15 00:31:31. |
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09/15/2009 07:21:52 AM · #949 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Being in the Sons of confederate veterans does not make you a racist. |
From their site:
"The citizen-soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personified the best qualities of America. The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South's decision to fight the Second American Revolution. The tenacity with which Confederate soldiers fought underscored their belief in the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. These attributes are the underpinning of our democratic society and represent the foundation on which this nation was built."
Unless of course, you happened to be black.....
Also:
"Membership in the Sons of Confederate Veterans is open to all male descendants of any veteran who served honorably in the Confederate armed forces."
Surely can't be havin' them pesky women having a voice in anything, either.
So......being in this organization doesn'take you a racist.....it kind of means you support being a white MALE.
That's *SO* much better!
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09/15/2009 09:04:05 AM · #950 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Niten:
Being in the Sons of confederate veterans does not make you a racist. |
From their site:
"The citizen-soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personified the best qualities of America. The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South's decision to fight the Second American Revolution. The tenacity with which Confederate soldiers fought underscored their belief in the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. These attributes are the underpinning of our democratic society and represent the foundation on which this nation was built."
Unless of course, you happened to be black.....
Also:
"Membership in the Sons of Confederate Veterans is open to all male descendants of any veteran who served honorably in the Confederate armed forces."
Surely can't be havin' them pesky women having a voice in anything, either.
So......being in this organization doesn'take you a racist.....it kind of means you support being a white MALE.
That's *SO* much better! |
I'm hardly an expert on the group. But its pretty closed minded to make a bunch of assumptions. I'm sure there are racist there just like there are some here and everywhere. I tend to believe we all are racist on some level or to at least some small degree. |
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