U.S. ObamaCare... - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/10/2009 09:03:42 PM · #906

Just donated $10 to Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

Niten

Canon EOS-20D

09/10/2009 09:34:06 PM · #907

Originally posted by kenskid:

Just donated $10 to Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

me too, well I cut out the middle man and just lit a match to it.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/10/2009 09:35:26 PM · #908

Originally posted by kenskid:

Just donated $10 to Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

Joe Wilson fails Fact Check

I was sitting around all day wondering how I could waste $10...now I know.

It's interesting how many people support a shameful moment in history. Political suicide or just another blight on our country. Way to go, Joe Wilson....keep'em coming.

Message edited by author 2009-09-10 21:39:18.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

09/10/2009 09:42:55 PM · #909

Originally posted by kenskid:

Just donated $10 to Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

Because he was rude and obnoxious, or just because you always support politicians who don't know what they're talking about?

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

09/10/2009 10:06:41 PM · #910

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

Thats speculation, and a lot of speculation is the reason this thread is so damn long. Lots of people talking about things they don't know much about, spouting off rhetoric from talking heads on both sides of the aisle, and maybe 1/10th of the people against the plan have actually read any plan or version of it, myself included.

I just don't get how giving everyone access to medical treatment is a bad thing, and I guess, for as big a jerk I am, somewhere in my heart I feel for people who suffer needlessly.

You have summed up my thoughts well with this.

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

Again, this mirrors me :) We weren't allowed to keep score for elementary school basketball. So much for teaching sportsmanship and the proper way to accept setbacks and loss....
On the bright side, since my friend and I were good, thorough, coaches, we never had to worry about losses because we actually taught the kids something (And kept tally of score to determine what we needed to work on). Knock on wood for the banned thing though... hope that never happens.

One thing that nobody seems to have considered in this whole thread about exploding healthcare costs is that with a large amount of people enrolled in a public option, the government gains very powerful leverage for determining rates with hospitals. As I already mentioned, insurance companies don't pay the actual "cost" of the procedure because they leverage it.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

09/10/2009 11:29:14 PM · #911

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

One thing that nobody seems to have considered in this whole thread about exploding healthcare costs is that with a large amount of people enrolled in a public option, the government gains very powerful leverage for determining rates with hospitals. As I already mentioned, insurance companies don't pay the actual "cost" of the procedure because they leverage it.

To quote the T-Heads: "Stop Making Sense!".

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/11/2009 01:20:46 AM · #912

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

To answer the earlier question of how this will be paid for, see above. It will be paid through the premiums of those enrolled, which is exactly how current insurance companies pay for it, but with the advantages of that aforementioned leverage to help drive down costs. Nobody is talking about free healthcare for all, and the small minority who can't afford ANY premiums are largely offset by eliminating multi-million dollar payouts to CEOs, PR firms, shareholders and lobbyists. I don't recall hearing this group complain about paying for public defenders or rural electrical service.

The notion that traditional insurance companies couldn't compete against the government is patently absurd (UPS, Fedex and private universities do it every day). They would just have to actually BE competitive and/or offer better service. The wild arm waving about REQUIRING people to have health insurance is also overblown. It's already a requirement for auto insurance, Social Security, certain professions, and also mortgage or homeowners insurance for many. Healthcare tends to cost more in the long run when you avoid it (and not just in dollars).

Lastly, any congressmen spinning horror stories of government run healthcare should follow this guy's lead and do without it or SHUT UP. Nearly all elected officials are perfectly fine with their own government run healthcare... just not for their constituents. :-/

As an aside, I think Rep Wilson may actually turn out to be more effective at spurring progress than the President's speech, if only because it called attention to a myth that's been overplayed by an anti-change lobbying machine. Some people will actually make the effort now to find out for themselves what the truth is, and realize that they've been duped.

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

09/11/2009 02:04:11 AM · #913

You know why the public option is bad?

Because we don't deserve it!

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/11/2009 07:24:12 AM · #914

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by kenskid:
Just donated $10 to Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

Because he was rude and obnoxious, or just because you always support politicians who don't know what they're talking about?

It was funny watching him bumble through his half-baked apology/explanation.

As for donating him money...I guess when you finally find the perfect dick, it's unimaginable not to throw your money behind him. It's too complex, knotty and fatiguing for normal folk to get their heads around but to some, it all makes perfect sense. It's a psychological burden. We all have our crosses to bare.

Message edited by author 2009-09-11 07:25:03.

Niten

Canon EOS-20D

09/11/2009 07:47:51 AM · #915

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
One thing that nobody seems to have considered in this whole thread about exploding healthcare costs is that with a large amount of people enrolled in a public option, the government gains very powerful leverage for determining rates...

To answer the earlier question of how this will be paid for, see above. It will be paid through the premiums of those enrolled, which is exactly how current insurance companies pay for it, but with the advantages of that aforementioned leverage to help drive down costs. Nobody is talking about free healthcare for all, and the small minority who can't afford ANY premiums are largely offset by eliminating multi-million dollar payouts to CEOs, PR firms, shareholders and lobbyists. I don't recall hearing this group complain about paying for public defenders or rural electrical service.

The notion that traditional insurance companies couldn't compete against the government is patently absurd (UPS, Fedex and private universities do it every day). They would just have to actually BE competitive and/or offer better service. The wild arm waving about REQUIRING people to have health insurance is also overblown. It's already a requirement for auto insurance, Social Security, certain professions, and also mortgage or homeowners insurance for many. Healthcare tends to cost more in the long run when you avoid it (and not just in dollars).

Lastly, any congressmen spinning horror stories of government run healthcare should follow this guy's lead and do without it or SHUT UP. Nearly all elected officials are perfectly fine with their own government run healthcare... just not for their constituents. :-/

As an aside, I think Rep Wilson may actually turn out to be more effective at spurring progress than the President's speech, if only because it called attention to a myth that's been overplayed by an anti-change lobbying machine. Some people will actually make the effort now to find out for themselves what the truth is, and realize that they've been duped.

Oh come on, you forgot to insult anyone. ;)

Niten

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/11/2009 09:31:04 AM · #916

Originally posted by kenskid:

Just donated $10 to Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

His opponent raised $750,000. //news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090911/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_heckling_wilson

He is a known crazy, maybe he will hook up with palin and run for president of the north pole or something.

jrtodd

Nikon D850

09/11/2009 11:35:45 AM · #917

Originally posted by Niten:

He is a known crazy, maybe he will hook up with palin and run for president of the north pole or something.

That got you a fav!

citymars

09/12/2009 01:02:27 PM · #918

Of course, the fact that Wilson receives financial contributions from the people who most want to halt progress has nothing to do with his outburst.

"Over his entire congressional career, health professionals represent Wilsonâ��s top industry contributors, donating a total of $244,196 to his campaign, according to the Center for Responsive Politics OpenSecrets.org database. He received another $86,150 from pharmaceutical companies, $73,050 from insurance companies and $68,000 from hospitals and nursing homes.

Among Wilsonâ��s top contributors are the American Hospital Association, a lobby group that represents the interests of hospitals and health networks, and the American Medical Association, which represents physicians."

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

09/14/2009 10:37:49 AM · #919

Originally posted by citymars:

Among Wilsonâ��s top contributors are the American Hospital Association, a lobby group that represents the interests of hospitals and health networks, and the American Medical Association, which represents physicians."

I was hoping the Dems would let it blow over and not go the Sean Hannity route but on second thought I'm now glad they're asking for a formal apology on the floor. I think his apology the the President was good enough but now he owes the House something more formal for breaking decorum. It was bad form and as the media is now catching onto, the waters run so much deeper than a policy debate and that needs to be nipped before it goes any deeper than it already has.

I mentioned over a month ago, in this thread that I believed a good deal of this debate was race driven and thankfully, the media is just now beginning to notice.

NY Times Op Ed

Reasonable discourse is fine but the other baggage needs to be tossed without further hesitation. As a member of The Sons of Confederate Veterans he will now become the face and poster child for White Supremest and other fringe groups and therefore should given no quarter.

Message edited by author 2009-09-14 10:46:16.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

09/14/2009 12:13:49 PM · #920

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by citymars:

Among Wilsonâ��s top contributors are the American Hospital Association, a lobby group that represents the interests of hospitals and health networks, and the American Medical Association, which represents physicians."

I was hoping the Dems would let it blow over and not go the Sean Hannity route but on second thought I'm now glad they're asking for a formal apology on the floor. I think his apology the the President was good enough but now he owes the House something more formal for breaking decorum. It was bad form and as the media is now catching onto, the waters run so much deeper than a policy debate and that needs to be nipped before it goes any deeper than it already has.

I mentioned over a month ago, in this thread that I believed a good deal of this debate was race driven and thankfully, the media is just now beginning to notice.

NY Times Op Ed

Reasonable discourse is fine but the other baggage needs to be tossed without further hesitation. As a member of The Sons of Confederate Veterans he will now become the face and poster child for White Supremest and other fringe groups and therefore should given no quarter.

I think the article stinks of a reporter wanting to bring race into his outburst. What makes her want to add "boy" after what he said. No I don't think he should of done what he did and where was the media when the dems booed bush in his speech to congress. They didn't report negatively on that. Furthermore what makes one think it's about race just because he is a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans? There are many black members.
...all the Hypocrisy!!!

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/14/2009 12:26:13 PM · #921

Originally posted by SDW:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by citymars:

Among Wilsonâ��s top contributors are the American Hospital Association, a lobby group that represents the interests of hospitals and health networks, and the American Medical Association, which represents physicians."

I was hoping the Dems would let it blow over and not go the Sean Hannity route but on second thought I'm now glad they're asking for a formal apology on the floor. I think his apology the the President was good enough but now he owes the House something more formal for breaking decorum. It was bad form and as the media is now catching onto, the waters run so much deeper than a policy debate and that needs to be nipped before it goes any deeper than it already has.

I mentioned over a month ago, in this thread that I believed a good deal of this debate was race driven and thankfully, the media is just now beginning to notice.

NY Times Op Ed

Reasonable discourse is fine but the other baggage needs to be tossed without further hesitation. As a member of The Sons of Confederate Veterans he will now become the face and poster child for White Supremest and other fringe groups and therefore should given no quarter.

I think the article stinks of a reporter wanting to bring race into his outburst. What makes her want to add "boy" after what he said. No I don't think he should of done what he did and where was the media when the dems booed bush in his speech to congress. They didn't report negatively on that. Furthermore what makes one think it's about race just because he is a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans? There are many black members.
...all the Hypocrisy!!!

I'm very sick of being labeled a racist because I disagree with "the one". It's as if he is so god like that if anyone disagrees with him, it has to be nothing other then racism. Sorry to disappoint, but I canâ��t stand most of the things he has done or wants to do. I could care less what race he is.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

09/14/2009 12:38:56 PM · #922

Originally posted by LoudDog:

I agree with you about being labeled a racist....I was called racist because I didn't vote on him...My reasoning for not voting on him was not because of the color of his skin but the mere fact that I did not like any of his policies...... This is the 1st time that I can recall that I disagreed with everything that the person was proposing. And really nothing has changed. I still dislike most of what he is doing...

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/14/2009 01:19:34 PM · #923

Well, people have been making racially loaded statement for some time now. I've heard the "N" word being thrown around and I believe I posted a link or something previously where some said Obamas policies were Afro-Leninism.

And you don't have to look much further than Rush Limbaugh to see in plain language how or in what line some people think. Then you have Bill O'Reilly and then there's Glenn Beck and then Sean Hannity and Newt Gingrich's calling out of Sonia Sotomayor as a racists.

I'm not sure what to make of the New York Post monkey cartoon but I don't think it made even Rupert Murdoch all too happy.

I think the Dems...especially the Obama administration have been trying to bury the attacks because it's so incredibly dangerous and counter productive BUT you can't deny the most powerful voices on the right are willing to play. I don't think there's much of a debate there. Glenn Beck has lost sponsorship and people can deny it bu where there's smoke there's fire and he certainly tossed some gas and a match rather freely. Hannity has been playing freely, mangling quotes and meaning each time I check in with him. Here's Hannity misquoting the President just the other day claiming that Obama called insurance company executives "bad people," when he so so so clearly didn't. That was typical and bad although fairly standard for Hannity.

Here's the Bush speech in 2005 as you mentioned, it's a little grumbling from the left. He certainly earned a little brushing after leading us into a second war virtually unchecked and uncontested by the media and Congress. Anyway the grumbling pales compared to what Wilson did. More important we should look into who's donating him money at this point and see what they're politics and beliefs are. I also think his membership in the The Sons of Confederate Veterans is HUGE. It's not some little thing, it speaks volumes.

FWIW I have cousin and an uncle who have been making racial slurs against Obama since day one. Anyway you cut it to receive such a degree of disrespect while his Presidency is in it's earliest stages is over the top.

Originally posted by LoudDog:

I'm very sick of being labeled a racist because I disagree with "the one".

Did I call you a racists? No I did not. I do think that many Americans need to do some honest soul searching. That's all I ask. There's been a lack of honesty that's become so apparent in recent months, although it's been around for years.

I couldn't stand George Bush but I also asked myself why, through-out his Presidency to keep myself in check.

I would ask anyone that didn't vote for Obama if they were content with Bushes policies or the state of the nation when he left office? If they didn't like Obamas policies, that's perfectly cool with me but I'd be surprised if they didn't think we needed to change a whole lot of things if we were to survive as a nation. I would also be surprised if they didn't realize how deeply seated our problems were and that's why the words "Change" became such a buzz word by both campaigns.

Message edited by author 2009-09-14 13:35:56.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

09/14/2009 01:32:16 PM · #924

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Here's the Bush speech in 2005 as you mentioned, it's a little grumbling from the left. He certainly earned a little brushing after leading us into a second war virtually unchecked and uncontested by the media and Congress. Anyway the grumbling pales compared to what Wilson did.

Couple points here:
Wilson yelled "you lie" a little louder then several dems booed and grumbled at Bush. So I guess the dems have more assholes but the reps have a bigger one? What is your point? It's okay to grumble just a little as long as no one can hear what you said? I'm only guessing, but I'm guessing the grumblings were equally offensive as "you lie".

You can't justify the grumbling because you agree with their reason for grumbling. Wilson felt he had good reason too, lots of us could justify what Wilson did by saying Obama is trying to tax us to death and steal our healthcare coverage.