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09/03/2009 07:41:59 AM · #776 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
We're Mind-Numbingly Stupid |
I'll take Mind-Numbingly Stupid...for a $1000, Alex.
Ooooo, the Daily Double!
I don't know which is worse, Mean or Stupid but I think it's a deadly combination of both?
I keep thinking about the Town Hall meeting when McCain had to take the microphone away from the lady who said: "I can't trust Obama. I have read about him and he's not, he's not uh ΓΆ€” he's an Arab. He's not ΓΆ€” ". The look of unease and fear on his face like he was saying to himself "holy shit, I think we've gone too far" is embedded in my mind. It was one of the most telling moments of the entire campaign and the state of America. Now Obamas a communist...a fascist...a racist. Will it ever end?
Message edited by author 2009-09-03 07:52:45. |
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09/03/2009 08:28:11 AM · #777 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
This debate makes us look like complete morons abroad. Little by little our reputation and any respect we've earned from the rest of the planet is dying. I suppose the next time we need help or sympathy the rest of the world will find it very easy to tell us to screw off. |
OK then, let's drop this stupid f*cking idea of a health care reform bill and find some solutions that work. Sound good? |
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09/03/2009 08:29:16 AM · #778 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
... Unfortunately, there aren't enough physicians' assistants, all the more reason we need this health care reform to pass. |
???! Huh? There aren't enough doctors, and you're saying not enough physicians' assitants either - yet you say reform needs to pass, which will likely increase the existing workload? |
Huh indeed... where did she say that there aren't enough doctors? |
She didn't, and I didn't say she did.
Looks like a trip to the eye doctor is in order for you, eh? |
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09/03/2009 08:38:03 AM · #779 |
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09/03/2009 09:24:37 AM · #780 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
This debate makes us look like complete morons abroad. Little by little our reputation and any respect we've earned from the rest of the planet is dying. I suppose the next time we need help or sympathy the rest of the world will find it very easy to tell us to screw off. |
OK then, let's drop this stupid f*cking idea of a health care reform bill and find some solutions that work. Sound good? |
Health Care reform is a great idea, not a stupid one but there ARE members of Congress and the Insurance Industry that don't want any reform at all. There are Insurance companies that are saying one thing but have launched hugely funded campaigns to squelch the debate and have also stacked Town Halls with the yellers.
Their lobbyists are out in full force and they've been very successful at spreading bad information fear and all that crap.
I have no issue whatsoever with doing it right but again, there are a lot of money grubbers that don't want any reform at all and of course there are those Obama haters who pretty much want him dead and they have been a loud voice in an otherwise valid debate.
It's interesting what we are now learning about the Insurance business and beginning to talk about wellness and preventative care and how the industry treats people when it's too late. It's too abstract to quantify what preventative care might do ...keeping people out of the Emergency Rooms etc (or getting to them before they get sick) but it's great we're now discussing it. Sadly, that abstract notion however, valid is being dismissed and swept under the table by the nay-sayers. |
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09/03/2009 09:38:47 AM · #781 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
... Unfortunately, there aren't enough physicians' assistants, all the more reason we need this health care reform to pass. |
???! Huh? There aren't enough doctors, and you're saying not enough physicians' assitants either - yet you say reform needs to pass, which will likely increase the existing workload? |
Huh indeed... where did she say that there aren't enough doctors? |
She didn't, and I didn't say she did.
Looks like a trip to the eye doctor is in order for you, eh? |
Maybe, but at least in my case I don't have to worry ...I'm covered. :O)
Ray |
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09/03/2009 10:36:11 AM · #782 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
...and of course there are those Obama haters who pretty much want him dead... |
Finally, an Obama we can all love and appreciate. |
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09/03/2009 10:45:25 AM · #783 |
oh that Obama chia is funny.....I think that instead of waiting until 2012 for our next presidential election we need to go ahead and have one now. I seriously doubt that he would be re-elected.
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09/03/2009 11:25:28 AM · #784 |
| You guys just can't wait to f#k everything up again eh? The results will deside if he is reelected and how could it posibly be worse then when he took over. |
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09/03/2009 11:54:15 AM · #785 |
Originally posted by Niten:
You guys just can't wait to f#k everything up again eh? The results will deside if he is reelected and how could it posibly be worse then when he took over. |
Incase you have not been paying attention to the news, it has been getting steadily worse. He started out his presidency by raising taxes on cigarrettes. To a non-smoker it's oh well. To a smoker that is taking alot of money out of our pockets...And yes I have tried to quit. Another thing he did shortly after taking office was started printing money. He is clueless as to how the economy works. If I am in debt, the last thing I am going to do is get a loan. When they did away with the gold standard in 1913 that was a horrible mistake. Our money used to be backed by gold but no longer is. That is why I am investing in gold which is trading at $990.10 per oz. Back last Christmas it was trading at $750 an oz.
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09/03/2009 12:09:15 PM · #786 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
... He started out his presidency by raising taxes on cigarrettes. To a non-smoker it's oh well. To a smoker that is taking alot of money out of our pockets...And yes I have tried to quit. |
Look at this from a positive side... if you do manage to quit, this is good preventive medicine and will extend your life expectancy... you should be thanking the President, he is doing you a favour.
Ray |
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09/03/2009 12:16:54 PM · #787 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by Niten:
You guys just can't wait to f#k everything up again eh? The results will deside if he is reelected and how could it posibly be worse then when he took over. |
Incase you have not been paying attention to the news, it has been getting steadily worse. He started out his presidency by raising taxes on cigarrettes. To a non-smoker it's oh well. To a smoker that is taking alot of money out of our pockets...And yes I have tried to quit. Another thing he did shortly after taking office was started printing money. He is clueless as to how the economy works. If I am in debt, the last thing I am going to do is get a loan. When they did away with the gold standard in 1913 that was a horrible mistake. Our money used to be backed by gold but no longer is. That is why I am investing in gold which is trading at $990.10 per oz. Back last Christmas it was trading at $750 an oz. |
You are listening to Fox again. Make up your mind what your going to lie about(we proved this with the medicaid comments). It seems like you claim he did alot of things first.
You say we shouldn't take care of fat people but you are a smoker?
If you are buying gold now then your a moron. Wait, what am I thinking, of course your buying gold.
On a up note though the days of Blame it all on Bill are long over.
You would have voted for Bush again I bet. |
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09/03/2009 12:21:20 PM · #788 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
He started out his presidency by raising taxes on cigarrettes. To a non-smoker it's oh well. To a smoker that is taking alot of money out of our pockets...And yes I have tried to quit. |
You don't TRY.....you just quit.
You make the decision to take care of yourself; to want to live and be healthier and.....just.....stop.
All the tricks, the medications, the hypnosis......if YOU don't make the commitment and do it, it doesn't work.
Make the decision, stop....
You'll feel better both physically & mentally.
And yes, that's how I did it......put 'em down and never looked back.
Everyone that I know that's quit and stayed away from them had to do it by making the commitment to themselves and their health.
You *can* do it.....and do it for you.
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09/03/2009 12:26:23 PM · #789 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
... He started out his presidency by raising taxes on cigarrettes. To a non-smoker it's oh well. To a smoker that is taking alot of money out of our pockets...And yes I have tried to quit. |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Look at this from a positive side... if you do manage to quit, this is good preventive medicine and will extend your life expectancy... you should be thanking the President, he is doing you a favour. |
Thank the President for doing a good thing?????
Perish the thought! LOL!!!
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09/03/2009 12:51:35 PM · #790 |
//money.cnn.com/2009/09/03/news/economy/health_care_class_act.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009090310
I don't know the political leanings of this author but I suspect they veer towards the right. However, his 5 or 6 articles on health care reform are interesting. The common theme of his columns is $$$ and the problem with finding enough of them to pay for reform.
****
On one hand, I'm with General E; what is best for me isn't necessarily best for insurance companies and their shareholders. I've been involved with a small business for almost 20 years and health care costs and premiums have far outstripped our ability to provide coverage for our employees, let alone their families. The system is screwed up when the only options available to us are Blue Shield, Blue Cross, and Kaiser and BS/BC are 20-30% higher than K. Premiums have increased double digits virtually every year for the last 10 years. The service is OK, the paperwork is nauseating, and the doctors and other caregivers are top notch.
On the other hand, I don't think the government plan is going to be the nirvana that many think. Several people hold up medicare as an example of what is right about a government plan. I know from personal experience that Medicare is good from the patient's perspective. My grandma has used it for the last 20+ years(she is 91) and they have provided good care at little cost to her. But, premiums collected for Medicare don't cover the plans expenses, especially as the population of the US ages. Higher taxes are inevitable, regardless of what the pin heads in washington say.
In some ways, I believe the American people are to blame for the increase in health care costs. We have become accustomed to going to see a doctor(a professional with many years of training), and paying 10,20, or 30$. Would I take my car to  NikonJeb (another professional) for a problem and expect to pay him a small copay to fix my car? NO. When my car needs work, i shop around for the best service at the best price. We view going to the doctor as a pocket expense and consequently we have a skewed understanding of the real costs involved.
AND WE ARE FAT AND LAZY IN THIS COUNTRY! That might have something to do with health care costs.
I think it's silly to hold up Cuba as an example of a country that has figured out how to provide health care for it's citizens. "Hey Mr. Cuban citizen, it won't cost you any money to have your appendix removed but we don't have any rubber gloves and you need to wait until the gentlman from Timbuktu has his surgery." In Cuba, as in the rest of the world...money talks; at the expense of the people without. For every positive facet of Cuba's health care system, there is an ugly negative one.
Is health reform needed? Yes. Do I wan't to help pay for it? Um, i'm not sure. Do I trust the insurance companies? Heck no. Do I trust the government? hmmm... :) As cynical as I am, I do believe that most elected officials are trying to do what they think is right. I don't always agree but I try to at least give them credit for trying. And that includes Pres Obama. |
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09/03/2009 01:17:07 PM · #791 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by srdanz:
Adam and Eric posit an interesting theory here, in part explaining their stance: if we insure everyone (or more people than are insured now) then there won't be enough care for us. That's the me, me, me, Steve was talking about. So, it is not about who's paying for it, or about socialism/communism etc. It is about fear for your own safety - if we insure all, then all those sick people will wait in lines for help, and we the lucky and privately insured ones will be left care-free/care-less :-)
Great rhetoric.
I'll just sit and wait... listening to BBC or some other news agency that is far removed from this continent. The only way to come close to objective is to remove yourself from here. It takes humongous courage to look at ourselves and criticize our behavior in a constructive and objective manner. Very few people I've ever met have been fitting the courageous profile - this continent or other. |
Sure, that is a small portion of it. However, its not that I just get to pay the same amount and get less. I will get added taxes because I make "too much" money, PLUS my insurance premiums are sure to increase more because the government will cap what they pay for procedures and visits, thus forcing docs to charge my insurance more. Where is the fairness in that? All so liberals can feel like they are doing humanity a justice and giving them something they have clearly not earned. |
Well, that's just bull and you know it. We have already established that you don't earn enough ($300,000 or $350,000) to pay additional tax under the proposed legislation. And your insurance premiums are sure to increase if we do nothing. Geez... |
And you are out of your freaking mind, as usual, if you honestly believe that every single tax-paying American will not be hit with additional taxes on this nonsense of a reform bill. Have you ever taken an accounting or economics class? By your constant spew of ignorant postings, I would guess not. In your apparent all-surpassing genius, can you show me how the simple math of this bill will work without taxing all of us? And I'll take the insurance premium increases as long as I continue to have access to the same quality of care that I currently do.
I'd also like to see the magical logic behind paying physicians and PAs less AND, at the same time, convincing more of them to spend all that time in school. Wow! |
Nice try at changing the subject. You claim in your original post (the one that I criticized) that your taxes in particular will rise based on your income ("I will get added taxes because I make "too much" money"). I'll say it again, that's a false claim and you know it because it's already been debunked in this very thread. As the legislation stands now, only those taxpayers with an income of $350,000 and above will pay additional tax. Also, coverage will be mandated, so those people not currently insured will pay additional monies, and if you want to call that a tax, that's fine. But you don't fall into either category.
And yes, I do have some finance and economics background, but I'm not going to try to prove the negative. If you want to make an argument that the current legislation will raise everyone's taxes, then you make the argument based on the actual legislation, not based on some paranoid delusion or propaganda you've read on some right-wing blog. |
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09/03/2009 01:40:29 PM · #792 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
He started out his presidency by raising taxes on cigarrettes. To a non-smoker it's oh well. To a smoker that is taking alot of money out of our pockets...And yes I have tried to quit. |
You don't TRY.....you just quit.
You make the decision to take care of yourself; to want to live and be healthier and.....just.....stop.
All the tricks, the medications, the hypnosis......if YOU don't make the commitment and do it, it doesn't work.
Make the decision, stop....
You'll feel better both physically & mentally.
And yes, that's how I did it......put 'em down and never looked back.
Everyone that I know that's quit and stayed away from them had to do it by making the commitment to themselves and their health.
You *can* do it.....and do it for you. |
The president can't do it... |
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09/03/2009 01:49:08 PM · #793 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
He started out his presidency by raising taxes on cigarrettes. To a non-smoker it's oh well. To a smoker that is taking alot of money out of our pockets...And yes I have tried to quit. |
You don't TRY.....you just quit.
You make the decision to take care of yourself; to want to live and be healthier and.....just.....stop.
All the tricks, the medications, the hypnosis......if YOU don't make the commitment and do it, it doesn't work.
Make the decision, stop....
You'll feel better both physically & mentally.
And yes, that's how I did it......put 'em down and never looked back.
Everyone that I know that's quit and stayed away from them had to do it by making the commitment to themselves and their health.
You *can* do it.....and do it for you. |
The president can't do it... |
Thank you LoudDog.
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09/03/2009 01:49:11 PM · #794 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I'll say it again, that's a false claim and you know it because it's already been debunked in this very thread. As the legislation stands now, only those taxpayers with an income of $350,000 and above will pay additional tax. |
And as the legislation stands only about half of the projected cost (which if recent history is correct will be way less then actual) is covered by the proposed tax increases. If they are double pinky swearing that they won't increase debt for healthcare they must raise taxes more then the current plan, or cut cost from the plan (which never happens).
So yeah, shockingly I don't believe what they are saying.
For me, my taxes will go up, my insurance premiums will go up, and my quality of care will probably decrease. If I go on the govt option, my premiums will drop and my quality of care will drop.
Sorry, I'd much rather see a plan that reduces the cost of medical care and drugs to lower premiums so all can afford it and all save money. Govt take over will not lower the cost of drugs and care (as proven by the CBO) and that is what is currently on the table. High costs are the problem, that is what should be addressed.
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09/03/2009 02:00:22 PM · #795 |
one more article from the Fortune Magazine guy... A closer look at why insurance costs so much.
link
LoudDog-- I'm guessing this is in line with your idea of reform??
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09/03/2009 02:05:22 PM · #796 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Sorry, I'd much rather see a plan that reduces the cost of medical care and drugs to lower premiums so all can afford it and all save money. Govt take over will not lower the cost of drugs and care (as proven by the CBO) and that is what is currently on the table. High costs are the problem, that is what should be addressed. |
In a perfect world, that would be the best idea, but if they lower the cost, prenium will most likely stay the same so insurance companies will simply get more money.
Message edited by author 2009-09-03 14:05:41. |
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09/03/2009 03:26:01 PM · #797 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
You *can* do it.....and do it for you. |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
The president can't do it... |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Thank you LoudDog. |
Wow!
Okay, use any excuse you want for your weakness.
You can quit if you really want to, and what anyone else does or doesn't do has no bearing on that.
That is so lame!
Here's the deal.......go to the mirror, look that person in the eye, and tell them you can't quit.
That's all you have to do.
If you can admit to yourself, and live with it, go for it.
But don't try and bullsh*t anyone who knows better.
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09/03/2009 03:49:56 PM · #798 |
Originally posted by merchillio:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Sorry, I'd much rather see a plan that reduces the cost of medical care and drugs to lower premiums so all can afford it and all save money. Govt take over will not lower the cost of drugs and care (as proven by the CBO) and that is what is currently on the table. High costs are the problem, that is what should be addressed. |
In a perfect world, that would be the best idea, but if they lower the cost, prenium will most likely stay the same so insurance companies will simply get more money. |
Jadded assumption.
All it takes is one company that wants to steal business from the others to lower the price. Then everyone else needs to follow or lose business. Remove restictions on crossing state lines with policies and there will be price wars. Current profit margins at insurance companies are not that high, more competition will force them to strive for more efficency and better quality as well. |
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09/03/2009 03:57:26 PM · #799 |
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Socialised medicine works. Socialised medicine works. Socialised medicine works.
Socialised medicine works. Socialised medicine works. Socialised medicine works.
Socialised medicine works. Socialised medicine works. |
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09/03/2009 03:59:53 PM · #800 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
one more article from the Fortune Magazine guy... A closer look at why insurance costs so much.
link
LoudDog-- I'm guessing this is in line with your idea of reform?? |
Yes, I like his thinking. Thanks, good reads.
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