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08/20/2009 10:25:32 AM · #1 |
| I am donating a photo to be printed on cards for a fundraiser. I sent the organization the original photo. I just got an email saying they need it in CMYK format because to print it as an RGB it would be dull (doesn't make sense to me, I print all my shots in RGB and they're fine). I use PSP 7. I really have no idea how to convert the photo to CMYK.....I do not have a RAW version of the photo. In PSP I saw a button to split the photo to CMYK and then to combine them into CMYK and I came up with a rather dark photo......is this what they need? I'm confused. Help!! |
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08/20/2009 10:40:30 AM · #2 |
| In short: when printing cards (or brochures, folders etc.) offset printing is used, that's a quite different to making photographic prints. CMYK color space is needed, because in the printing machine there's a screen for each of the four colors (cyan, magenta, yellow, black - k is for key colour). The CMYK color space is way smaller than RGB, that's why offset prints are usually less vibrant. You can change the color space as you described, but make some changes afterwards (brighten, saturate). |
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08/20/2009 10:49:08 AM · #3 |
| OK, thanks, that helps. But why can't the printer just convert it to CMYK? And if they can't (I guess they can't or they'd do it), I should do it as I described and then change the brightness, etc. to make it look like the original? |
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08/20/2009 10:52:41 AM · #4 |
It's not that the printer CAN'T convert to CMYK, it's that it will cost the charity money to have that done.
You can send the edited file to me as a TIFF and I (or any of a bunch of other people) can CMYK it for you if you are uncomfortable with the process. It's not hard to do.
R.
ETA: I Know how to do it in Photoshop, it's easy, but have no PSP experience or I'd walk you through it.
Message edited by author 2009-08-20 10:53:37. |
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08/20/2009 10:54:24 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
OK, thanks, that helps. But why can't the printer just convert it to CMYK? And if they can't (I guess they can't or they'd do it), I should do it as I described and then change the brightness, etc. to make it look like the original? |
That's probably why they don't do it. Some editing will be needed after the conversion and they don't want to be responsible for the color correction. Once we went into the digital age for images and took the color separation duties away from the printers, they can't take responsibility for the color quality anymore.
Color separation for off set printing was almost an art form, and it cost big bucks back in the day. |
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08/20/2009 10:55:01 AM · #6 |
I have a similar situation where I have been asked to provide a photo to be printed. Are there certain types of images to be avoided? I read somewhere that white did not reproduce well in CMYK and I was considering providing them with a waterfall image.
Message edited by author 2009-08-20 10:55:19. |
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08/20/2009 10:57:13 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
OK, thanks, that helps. But why can't the printer just convert it to CMYK? And if they can't (I guess they can't or they'd do it), I should do it as I described and then change the brightness, etc. to make it look like the original? |
That's probably why they don't do it. Some editing will be needed after the conversion and they don't want to be responsible for the color correction. Once we went into the digital age for images and took the color separation duties away from the printers, they can't take responsibility for the color quality anymore.
Color separation for off set printing was almost an art form, and it cost big bucks back in the day. |
But she's not being asked for the separations, just for the file in CMYK format; there's a difference. The printer will make the separations, and they will (or at least ought to) do any tweaking required at that time. If Karen converts to CMYK and uses the correct color space in PSP to proof and adjust the result, she'll be fine.
R.
Message edited by author 2009-08-20 10:58:13. |
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08/20/2009 10:57:52 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by rlewis:
I have a similar situation where I have been asked to provide a photo to be printed. Are there certain types of images to be avoided? I read somewhere that white did not reproduce well in CMYK and I was considering providing them with a waterfall image. |
White is tricky, yes. So is purple, FWIW.
R. |
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08/20/2009 10:58:37 AM · #9 |
| OK, I've done it and made a few brightness adjustments. The colour on the conversion looked fine, it was just too dark. So I brightened it up a bit and it's pretty close to the original. So I just save it in .jpg format like I saved the original, right? There's nothing else to do? (who knew simply donating a photo would be this complicated???? LOL) |
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08/20/2009 11:16:03 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
OK, thanks, that helps. But why can't the printer just convert it to CMYK? And if they can't (I guess they can't or they'd do it), I should do it as I described and then change the brightness, etc. to make it look like the original? |
That's probably why they don't do it. Some editing will be needed after the conversion and they don't want to be responsible for the color correction. Once we went into the digital age for images and took the color separation duties away from the printers, they can't take responsibility for the color quality anymore.
Color separation for off set printing was almost an art form, and it cost big bucks back in the day. |
But she's not being asked for the separations, just for the file in CMYK format; there's a difference. The printer will make the separations, and they will (or at least ought to) do any tweaking required at that time. If Karen converts to CMYK and uses the correct color space in PSP to proof and adjust the result, she'll be fine.
R. |
Agreed, I was just saying from experience working in an output service bureau many moons ago that just becuase it looks good on the screen doesn't mean it will look good in separations. Issues like dot gain, line screen, rosetta patterns, ink density and more all affect the offset output. And while you can convert to CMYK, monitors are still RGB and there will be some shift. Photoshop does a good job of compesating for it, but unless you do an Iris type proof of the separated image you can't really proof for offset in digital.
Not trying to over complicate the matter, but offset printing is a differnet ball game than digital editing and printing to ink jet printers. In fact, it's a different sport altogether. |
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08/20/2009 11:43:12 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Agreed, I was just saying from experience working in an output service bureau many moons ago that just becuase it looks good on the screen doesn't mean it will look good in separations. Issues like dot gain, line screen, rosetta patterns, ink density and more all affect the offset output. And while you can convert to CMYK, monitors are still RGB and there will be some shift. Photoshop does a good job of compesating for it, but unless you do an Iris type proof of the separated image you can't really proof for offset in digital.
Not trying to over complicate the matter, but offset printing is a differnet ball game than digital editing and printing to ink jet printers. In fact, it's a different sport altogether. |
Yeah, for sure... And I ran the in-house graphics department for Pt. Loma Printers for about 5 years, so I know where you're coming from. But of course, none of that is profitable as far as KAREN is concerned, it's too much information. For all practical purposes, she is fine if she just delivers a goood-looking image in the CMYK color space, an let the printer worry about the rest. If there's a problem (unlikely) she'll hear about it soon enough :-)
R. |
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08/20/2009 11:44:19 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
OK, I've done it and made a few brightness adjustments. The colour on the conversion looked fine, it was just too dark. So I brightened it up a bit and it's pretty close to the original. So I just save it in .jpg format like I saved the original, right? There's nothing else to do? (who knew simply donating a photo would be this complicated???? LOL) |
Sounds about right, except if it was me I'd be delivering a TIFF file, not a JPG. Or both and let them choose...
R. |
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08/20/2009 01:38:59 PM · #13 |
The k in CMYK is not for key but it is for Black.
If the printer is worth their salt they will be making proofs before they go to press. The pre-press tech's should make color corrections based on the proof. Then re-run the film/plate, make new proofs and turn it over the pressman. Then while on press the pressman will use the Proof to make the final adjustments to the ink on press to get as close as possible to the proof. And FWIW red is the worst to dial in.
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08/20/2009 02:30:04 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
The k in CMYK is not for key but it is for Black.
If the printer is worth their salt they will be making proofs before they go to press. The pre-press tech's should make color corrections based on the proof. Then re-run the film/plate, make new proofs and turn it over the pressman. Then while on press the pressman will use the Proof to make the final adjustments to the ink on press to get as close as possible to the proof. And FWIW red is the worst to dial in. |
And very very expensive. |
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08/20/2009 02:44:38 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
The k in CMYK is not for key but it is for Black.
If the printer is worth their salt they will be making proofs before they go to press. The pre-press tech's should make color corrections based on the proof. Then re-run the film/plate, make new proofs and turn it over the pressman. Then while on press the pressman will use the Proof to make the final adjustments to the ink on press to get as close as possible to the proof. And FWIW red is the worst to dial in. |
And very very expensive. |
Getting it right is not cheap. When I was running film we used both Fuji Color Art and 3M matcthprint systems for proofing. It was the only way to get it right. 8.5x11 4 seperations at $25 a piece and then the Proof at around $50 so yeah $150 total for the proof and we almost always had to do a second and third round based on customer corrections. |
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08/20/2009 03:10:47 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
The k in CMYK is not for key but it is for Black.
If the printer is worth their salt they will be making proofs before they go to press. The pre-press tech's should make color corrections based on the proof. Then re-run the film/plate, make new proofs and turn it over the pressman. Then while on press the pressman will use the Proof to make the final adjustments to the ink on press to get as close as possible to the proof. And FWIW red is the worst to dial in. |
And very very expensive. |
Getting it right is not cheap. When I was running film we used both Fuji Color Art and 3M matcthprint systems for proofing. It was the only way to get it right. 8.5x11 4 seperations at $25 a piece and then the Proof at around $50 so yeah $150 total for the proof and we almost always had to do a second and third round based on customer corrections. |
That's what I was trying to explain, but then Bear yelled at me, so I stopped. ;-) |
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08/20/2009 03:24:29 PM · #17 |
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08/20/2009 03:32:18 PM · #18 |
do bears yell ?
i thought they growled...
you learn something everyday i guess :)
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08/20/2009 03:34:29 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
That's what I was trying to explain, but then Bear yelled at me, so I stopped. ;-) |
Did NOT! Jejeje� I was just clarifying my position soI didn't look like a know-nothing idjit :-)
R. |
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