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08/18/2009 11:36:44 PM · #551 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Let me see if I have this right; at least one of the contributors to this thread feels that certain systems shouldn't be in place because some people find ways to abuse the systems? |
First of all, its not just some. Secondly, I don't care if you abuse the system or not, I don't think I should EVER have to pay for any of your living expenses, especially the added cost of a health care system that does not work. Clear enough? |
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08/18/2009 11:38:26 PM · #552 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
If only the rest of the whining liberals who want everything for free would follow that lead. |
I know that you're factually challenged, but listen up and try to learn something for a change. There happens to be a mandate in the House bill that all Americans purchase insurance. This means that virtually everyone will be contributing some amount and virtually no one will get "everything for free." |
Mandatory Health Insurance: Wrong for Massachusetts, Wrong for America
"Mandatory insurance is a thinly veiled system of welfare. Politicians rarely admit this fact, but ordinary citizens understand it all too well." |
For those that will refuse the read...
"Patients face long waits for basic medical care—in some cases more than a year for a routine physical exam. These long waits are not due to a shortage of doctors. As the New England Journal of Medicine notes, Massachusetts “has the highest physician-to-population ratio of any state, in primary care as well as overall.” The waits are due to a government policy that discourages physicians from seeing patients—a policy under which seeing patients can mean that physicians lose rather than make money."
Maybe that brilliant, prize-winning Krugman just hasn't had a chance to look over the results of a failed program just yet. |
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08/18/2009 11:43:44 PM · #553 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I don't think I should EVER have to pay for any of your living expenses, especially the added cost of a health care system that does not work. |
Well then, you'd better get to work reforming the health care system we have in place now, because paying for the added cost of that failed system is exactly what you're doing now in the form of premiums that have increased 300 percent over the last several years.
That's your second lesson for the day. |
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08/18/2009 11:44:02 PM · #554 |
"The proper function of government is not to create or provide goods or services, but to protect individual rights so that people can create and trade goods and services according to their own best judgment."
Mandatory Health Insurance: Wrong for Massachusetts, Wrong for America |
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08/18/2009 11:52:10 PM · #555 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I don't think I should EVER have to pay for any of your living expenses, especially the added cost of a health care system that does not work. |
Well then, you'd better get to work reforming the health care system we have in place now, because paying for the added cost of that failed system is exactly what you're doing now in the form of premiums that have increased 300 percent over the last several years.
That's your second lesson for the day. |
Yep, I am paying for a failed system right now. I do not want to pay more because some liberal asshat made a political promise that was asinine at best to begin with. Read the article about Massachusetts and point out exactly where adding handouts for the uninsured will allow me to pay less. I have never maintained that the health care system should be free of reform. It is broken in several different ways. Cap malpractice payouts, give that a year to 18 months, then lets go from there. Don't push some bullshit, we-gotta-have-this-now-the-sky-is-falling, idiotic plan that has already proven itself to be a financial failure.
Oh yeah, the thing about premiums. Mine has only risen about 3% over the past 5 years. Maybe the sky isn't really falling after all. In Massachusetts, premiums are increasing at twice the national average. Sounds like a great plan, huh?
The beauty of all this stupidity is that liberal political control is most certainly doomed. How's that for a lesson? |
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08/18/2009 11:53:29 PM · #556 |
| So no more road-paving, snow-removal, police, fire or ambulance service, etc. etc. ad infinitum, except by private companies paid from private pockets. If your house is burning I might call the private fire fighters, but only to wet down my house next door. If your family dies and everything you own is destroyed, I don't care, mine is protected, all is right with the world...? |
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08/19/2009 12:09:02 AM · #557 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
So no more road-paving, snow-removal, police, fire or ambulance service, etc. etc. ad infinitum, except by private companies paid from private pockets. If your house is burning I might call the private fire fighters, but only to wet down my house next door. If your family dies and everything you own is destroyed, I don't care, mine is protected, all is right with the world...? |
Please allow me to re-post...
"The proper function of government is not to create or provide goods or services, but to protect individual rights so that people can create and trade goods and services according to their own best judgment."
Mandatory Health Insurance: Wrong for Massachusetts, Wrong for America
I use paved roads...no complaints there.
I use snow removal when I hit Wyoming to ski a couple of times each year, no complaints there.
The fire department provides me with affordable home insurance THAT I PAY FOR. No complaints there.
If you use an ambulance, you still get a bill around most of the country. The government provides taxpayer subsidies to most of them to cover basic costs that allow them to operate. Then, if YOU need an ambulance, YOU get a bill.
Originally posted by BeeCee:
If your family dies and everything you own is destroyed, I don't care, mine is protected, all is right with the world...? |
Actually, mine is all protected, too...but, in a word...yeah.
Message edited by author 2009-08-19 00:09:20. |
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08/19/2009 12:24:07 AM · #558 |
| Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
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08/19/2009 12:54:30 AM · #559 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
Sure, why not? |
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08/19/2009 01:17:40 AM · #560 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
Sure, why not? |
Nothing, as long as you quit reaming others a new one for feeling the same way but about different services. |
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08/19/2009 01:23:30 AM · #561 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
Sure, why not? |
Nothing, as long as you quit reaming others a new one for feeling the same way but about different services. |
What the hell are you even talking about? I am not reaming anyone for not wanting to pay for some stupid government program. What made you decide to stop by and put words into my mouth? Hell, its not even YOUR country or YOUR battle. Are you that badly in need of conversation or companionship? You guys have done a marvelous job in proving that the idea of government-ran health care is at the top of the stupidity list. Thank you for that. You may go now. |
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08/19/2009 01:50:45 AM · #562 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
Sure, why not? |
Nothing, as long as you quit reaming others a new one for feeling the same way but about different services. |
What the hell are you even talking about? I am not reaming anyone for not wanting to pay for some stupid government program. What made you decide to stop by and put words into my mouth? Hell, its not even YOUR country or YOUR battle. Are you that badly in need of conversation or companionship? You guys have done a marvelous job in proving that the idea of government-ran health care is at the top of the stupidity list. Thank you for that. You may go now. |
No, you're reaming them for wanting different ones than the ones you want.
No, it's not my country, and I'm daily thankful for that.
Thanks, but I think I'll stick around. I haven't seen a good train wreck lately. :) |
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08/19/2009 01:51:03 AM · #563 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Fraudulent litigation is the sole reason why docs and hospitals have to pay such ridiculous premiums for malpractice insurance. |
Malpractice insurance premiums account for something like 1-2% of health care overhead -- it's a bogus argument. The number of "undeserved" awards is infintesimal, and besides, those awards are made by juries, not the dreaded "government bureaucrats" everyone always fears.
Right now, you have a bureaucrat making decisions about whether or not your health care gets paid for. As undeserving as governement agencies may be of our trust, I'd rather have a civil servant making those decisions than an insurance company bureaucrat, whose primary duty is to maximize shareholder profit by denying as many claims as possible.
Unless you want to do away with insurance altogether, a non-profit government-run single-payer agency would almost have to be cheaper and more efficient than the non-system we have now. |
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08/19/2009 01:56:30 AM · #564 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
Sure, why not? |
What do you feel is the purpose of civilization, and the formation of societies?
It certainly sounds like you'd be happier living about 12,000 years ago, when anything you could physically take away from someone else was yours ... |
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08/19/2009 01:59:53 AM · #565 |
duplicate post
Message edited by author 2009-08-19 02:00:30. |
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08/19/2009 02:00:00 AM · #566 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
Sure, why not? |
Nothing, as long as you quit reaming others a new one for feeling the same way but about different services. |
What the hell are you even talking about? I am not reaming anyone for not wanting to pay for some stupid government program. What made you decide to stop by and put words into my mouth? Hell, its not even YOUR country or YOUR battle. Are you that badly in need of conversation or companionship? You guys have done a marvelous job in proving that the idea of government-ran health care is at the top of the stupidity list. Thank you for that. You may go now. |
No, you're reaming them for wanting different ones than the ones you want.
No, it's not my country, and I'm daily thankful for that.
Thanks, but I think I'll stick around. I haven't seen a good train wreck lately. :) |
Again, you are putting words from your little world into my argument. I am not reaming them for wanting different services. I am reaming them for wanting to add a bullshit service that we can't afford, we don't need, and that it seems the majority of constituents don't want. If it had been a good idea that was fiscally viable, it would have passed with a landslide. Hell, the democrats control the hill right now. If you can't even get your own party to vote for it, you should bow your head, apologize, and move onto finding a real solution. |
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08/19/2009 02:11:06 AM · #567 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Oh, so you're okay with the gov't providing the services YOU want to use, but if it's something you, personally, don't need, you feel the gov't shouldn't be providing it. Gotcha. |
Sure, why not? |
What do you feel is the purpose of civilization, and the formation of societies?
It certainly sounds like you'd be happier living about 12,000 years ago, when anything you could physically take away from someone else was yours ... |
I guess the purpose of civilization is to allow asshole liberals to go into my pocket and give money away to social parasites. The sure, why not was a nonsense response to a canadian trying to get into an argument that has no bearing on her. It was a response made in gist to the stupid comments and summations that preceded. I apologize for not drawing you guys a picture to make that a little more clear earlier. Even still, I have what I have earned. If you feel you need more, get off your ass and make it happen.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Malpractice insurance premiums account for something like 1-2% of health care overhead... |
Now that sounds like a hard fact. Something like most people in the country have seen proof that Obamacare was born out of ego and stupidity. |
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08/19/2009 09:56:02 AM · #568 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I guess the purpose of civilization is to allow asshole liberals to go into my pocket and give money away to social parasites. |
I seem to recall that some of the people seeking medical services in Mexico were retirees... would you consider every one of those a social parasite?
Originally posted by ericwoo:
The sure, why not was a nonsense response to a canadian trying to get into an argument that has no bearing on her. |
You truly are naive if you believe that this issue has no bearing whatsoever on Canadians. We have seen a massive influx of Americans crossing the border into Canada to purchase prescription drugs here as they are a lot cheaper here than in the USA... I will assume you can appreciate what happens when the demands surpass supplies.
Originally posted by ericwoo:
It was a response made in gist to the stupid comments and summations that preceded. I apologize for not drawing you guys a picture to make that a little more clear earlier. |
Perhaps it's just me, but I get the very distinct impression that you tend to categorize any and all comments that disagree with your viewpoint as "Stupid". While you are most certainly entitled to your opinions, I seriously doubt that your opinions are the only erudite views proffered to date.
Here's hoping that you never experience any major setbacks in your life...I would hate for a person such as yourself to become a burden on society.
Ray
Message edited by author 2009-08-19 09:56:46. |
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08/19/2009 10:51:44 AM · #569 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I am reaming them for wanting to add a bullshit service that we can't afford, we don't need, and that it seems the majority of constituents don't want. |
Eric-You are aware that people from other parts of the world are reading what you're writing?
It's probably embarrassing for them to see what a pack knuckleheads we are and painful to know we're running the World. I'm embarrassed...fwiw and I sympathize.
Ask the British if the NHS is a bullshit service. Baring perfection they are pretty content.
The USA ranks a shitty 50th in terms of life expectancy. We're so awesome though I doubt any of the top industrialized nations in the world would trade places with us in terms of Health Care BUT since you're ok....all's well with the world. I got it.
Hail Barney Frank! That was great to watch and about freaking time...
Town Hall
Message edited by author 2009-08-19 11:03:17. |
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08/19/2009 12:57:22 PM · #570 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Jesus says an amount of faith even as small as a mustard seed makes all things possible |
Well, since you brought it up, I don't buy into that bullshit, either. And Nobel, Pulitzer, whatever, the guy is writing like a moron right now. He wants us to do what Massachusetts did?!? WTF? Sure, it really isn't working for them, but we could probably make it work for us. Seriously? AND, the Noble Prize argument may have retained some strength, but don't they just toss those out to everyone? Hell, even Jimmy Carter, Georgia's great embarrassment, got one for peace. Nobel Prize?!
Originally posted by Niten:
This is the stupidest argument ever. You think taking all power away from the little guy is the going to improve health care? Your party is screaming about death squads out to kill grandma. This idea would give health care providers the ability to just keep people sick while they line their own pockets with cash. |
Really...stupidest argument ever? Fraudulent litigation is the sole reason why docs and hospitals have to pay such ridiculous premiums for malpractice insurance. Do you think those guys should just absorb those costs and still give you fair prices? That sounds like the same dumb-ass argument that says tax the rich and the corporations. Surely they'll just absorb the taxes, keep paying their employees the same and spending the same. There is an argument you should label 'stupidest' way ahead of mine. |
Shipping prices are to high, lets not let anyone sue them for anything so they can save money and lower prices by not haveing to buy insurance. I'm sure they will keep their safty standards at the same level. This is your arguement not mine.
I think we should consider allowing people to be sued for knowingly feeding the public miss-information.
As far as taxing the wealthy, I think they should pay at least the same level as the rest of us. Right now they pay way less. |
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08/19/2009 01:36:43 PM · #571 |
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08/19/2009 02:13:12 PM · #572 |
Thanks for that post but people here will have none of it. They'll argue that a nickles NOT a nickle no matter how much proof you offer. And if these changes to health care were a success that would kill off the Republican Party for good. It would prove they and their philosophy to be fundamentally incorrect and they can have NONE of that. The death of extensive reform is in the parties best interest. Extending far past healthcare, if Obama succeeds at anything they''ll be in big trouble so that's why you have this massive fear and misinformation campaign.
The Democrats don't operate on the same level. After 9/11 they let The Bush admin roll all over them for a few years as did the media in the wind up to Iraq. Nobody put up a fight until things got funky and we realized we were sold a faulty bill of goods and there was practically no way out. The Republican have this stuff down to an art and are ruthless about it. I don't listen to every Liberal dip-stick that's out there but the fact that people are listening Palin, Grassley and Boehner is a mind blower. How stupid are we...?
I'm in no major rush to pass something that's not right But a good friend of mine Alonzo went bankrupt a few years back when his wife fell sick after he lost his job at Windows On The World (in the World Trade Center), post 9/11, so that story rings true for me.
Message edited by author 2009-08-19 14:22:00. |
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08/19/2009 02:47:46 PM · #573 |
Woohoo! Moving up. New report has us at 31st now. :-) |
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08/19/2009 02:55:26 PM · #574 |
Not bad considering we are #1 in fattys and we're all hopped up on anti-depresants.
And note, to get the support of the drug companies Obama negotiated a deal with them where they can keep their inflated prices and it will remain illegal for Americans to get drugs from outside the US where they are cheaper. In exchange for their support more Americans will get more drugs through govt insurance (rather then buy generics on their own dime) and the drug companies make more profit. Reform? Change we can believe in?
But my favorite are the super libs in congress that care so much about healthcare "REFORM" that they have said they will not vote for any bill that lacks a govt option. Do they really want reform or are they hell bent on the govt option, which per Obama and Frank is the road to single payer? They would vote no on any reform that does not include a govt option, an option they already made sure they won't be in? Yeah, they are looking out for me and my best interest!
I'll ask again since it has not been answered. Why don't we reform? Why not remove the bans on crossing state lines to get insurance? Why not allow Americans to purchase perscription meds outside the US? Why is the govt option the only way? |
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08/19/2009 03:01:06 PM · #575 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
And if these changes to health care were a success that would kill off the Republican Party for good. |
Your political finger pointing is comical. Your asshat of a president is trying to push a bullshit plan that he can't even get HIS OWN party to agree on. That must be more Republican misinformation, too...right? At least there is a small group of Democrats that don't have their heads all the way up their asses.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm in no major rush to pass something that's not right But a good friend of mine Alonzo went bankrupt a few years back when his wife fell sick after he lost his job at Windows On The World (in the World Trade Center), post 9/11, so that story rings true for me. |
If that's the case, what's the rush?!?! This plan is not right no matter how drunk you are when you look at it. We're 8 years beyond 9/11 right now. Have there been no other jobs that Alonzo could have worked since then? Or have there been no other jobs at over-priced restaurants that would pay a hefty salary that Alonzo would accept? It is easy to play the victim, but its much more logical to take responsibility for your life and find a way to make things work.
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