| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/09/2009 10:00:55 AM · #426 |
Good morning Eric, did you spend a little too much time with Jason and Alyssa last night, you seem a bit crankyâ¦.LOL j/k.
I agree that socialized medical care is not the answer, I think we would loose too much in advancements. BUT, I have to wonder, I know the medical, and insurance industry definitely do not want this to happen. Why are there no emergency meetings being held in Las Vegas, conference calls going far and wide. Someone saying woe-woe-woe we donât want this. We better fix this before someone fixes it for us, and takes away the bread and butter. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 10:56:28 AM · #427 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
LD-Both plans ...if you can call them that are skimpy at best and seem to amount to a few statements.
On the Boehner link this statement comes up in the second paragraph of the article...
"How much the Republican plan would cost and how many uninsured Americans would gain coverage remains unclear."
I've been searching for solid Opposition answers but have yet to find anything of substance and the it seems that there's been plenty of discussion about NOT offering up a plan because they're doing a great job of killing what's on the table without having to convolute that effort.
To answer Eric's Liberal bash, the Republicans have done a bang up job of spending themselves under Reagan and Bush II, AND sloppy spending at that, so you could probably retire that tired argument against liberals as it hold little credibility anymore.
As for today's debt keep in mind Obama adopted Bush's approach to stop the hemorrhaging economy with a good deal of support and few deesentors who would have seen all those businesses fail (AIG, Citi, Fanny Freddie, Merril etc.) Pure Capitalism's pretty dangerous business but the bailout does appear to have stopped the bleeding and could you even imagine the job losses and halt to the economy if all those companies went down. I think honestly...and I mean HONESTLY that there would have been blood on the streets from the fallout. Mad Max (pick any post apocalyptic movie) conditions, as a result.
Do you remember this image? Yes, that Paulson, Bush's SET. He wanted approval within 3 days for $700 billion and full control over the money, if you remember? So, placing this whole mess on Obama I can only see as some bizarre form of amnesia, that many people seem to be suffering from. It was under a year ago but how quickly people forget...it's amazing.
Eric you're coming across more and more cruel with each post...and yes, whiny. Rewriting history and facts is tough business, good luck with that. I'll bet a quick internet search will turn up a cross building kit with which you can hang yourself on. |
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 11:07:11. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 10:59:52 AM · #428 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I seem to remember you stated in a previous post that your income ALMOST qualified for the $350,000 healthcare tax level. |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
350K? The last I actually read, the level was at $250,000, now you're upping the ante another hundred thousand or so. |
Here is one source for the $350,000 income threshold. This article is dated July 10, 2009. If you have updated information, I'd like to see it. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 11:02:50 AM · #429 |
...
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 11:39:37. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 11:13:45 AM · #430 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
And lastly, you have no business whining about a healthcare plan if you can't offer ANY alternative. The status quo is not a plan. "...Missouri Republican Rep. Roy Blunt was tapped to head a GOP health care task force in February, which was charged âwith crafting Republican solutions to increase Americansâ access to quality, affordable health care,â but which so far has produced no plan and seems unlikely to do so." |
Note, I wasn't saying either plan was good or bad. I was just pointing out yet more misinformation being spewed by the left. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 11:21:44 AM · #431 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Not exactly true about illegal immigrants. You are quoting a 2008 article. Below is from the Hr3200 bill.... |
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 â NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
Clear enough for you? |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 11:27:14 AM · #432 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
OK, Bush doubled the national debt over 8 years. That really blows. That's roughly $4 trillion dollars over 8 years. Not too bad seeing that O has already added a trillion or 2 since he took office just over 6 months ago (that's about half a year, or about 1/16th the amount of time that W added on only 2-4 times that amount depending on which figures you agree with). It doesn't seem that republican policies were that bad after all now, huh? Simple word problem...at that rate of spending, how long will it take for your godsend to at least double the current deficit? |
It doesn't necessarily follow that because Obama is doing some spending now, that he will keep spending at the same rate throughout his term. For one thing, every president in their first year is stuck with the budget from the last term of the previous president. Second, a lot of the spending that's happening now is temporary, emergency-type spending, not permanent as part of new programs going out years into the future. (And a good deal of the bailout dollars will be repaid in any event.) Third, if you look at this chart again, and look at the Carter and Clinton spending, but especially Clinton, you'll see that they did some spending early on and then brought the debt down later in their terms. So no, I don't accept your argument with regard to Obama's spending at the moment, especially given the fact that Obama has acknowledged that the debt must be reduced and that he will work on doing so later in his presidency.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 11:30:15. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 11:34:56 AM · #433 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by scalvert:
And lastly, you have no business whining about a healthcare plan if you can't offer ANY alternative. The status quo is not a plan. "...Missouri Republican Rep. Roy Blunt was tapped to head a GOP health care task force in February, which was charged âwith crafting Republican solutions to increase Americansâ access to quality, affordable health care,â but which so far has produced no plan and seems unlikely to do so." |
Note, I wasn't saying either plan was good or bad. I was just pointing out yet more misinformation being spewed by the left. |
That quote was from Factcheck.org, not the "left." It was a simple statement of fact â there IS no Republican plan. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 11:39:44 AM · #434 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by scalvert:
And lastly, you have no business whining about a healthcare plan if you can't offer ANY alternative. The status quo is not a plan. "...Missouri Republican Rep. Roy Blunt was tapped to head a GOP health care task force in February, which was charged âwith crafting Republican solutions to increase Americansâ access to quality, affordable health care,â but which so far has produced no plan and seems unlikely to do so." |
Note, I wasn't saying either plan was good or bad. I was just pointing out yet more misinformation being spewed by the left. |
LD-I wouldn't call those plans. They seems more like ideas, at best so I wouldn't say there's any disinformation until something concrete is produced.
This is the last I recall of anything meaningful a "3½ page summary provided to reporters lacked details or a cost estimate, but Republican leaders promised those details would come later."
ericwoo-Illegal aliens play a significant roll in getting food to your table and provide plenty of services that keep us moving along.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 12:23:41. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 11:43:11 AM · #435 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by SDW:
Not exactly true about illegal immigrants. You are quoting a 2008 article. Below is from the Hr3200 bill.... |
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 â NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
Clear enough for you? |
Your talking credits; I'm talking penalties. Not the same.
If a US citizen is subject to a 2.5% penalties so should a non-US citizen, right?
CLEAR ENOUGH!!
For more clarity for HR3200. Below you will see why there will be no 'affordability credit'. If an illegal immigrant is in the US then they don't file taxes, so no credit.
IN GENERAL.âIn applying this subtitle for an
3 affordability credit for an individual for a plan year, the
4 individualâs income shall be the income (as defined in sec5
tion 242(c)) for the individual for the most recent taxable
6 year (as determined in accordance with rules of the Com7
missioner). The Federal poverty level applied shall be such
8 level in effect as of the date of the application.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 11:52:56. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:04:09 PM · #436 |
I would like to know how many of us has actually read the current HR3200 bill so that when we make a statement it wasn't Google(d), Wikipedia(ed),Factcheck(ed), blogged, or from the news (right or left). Most Americans think that they get the truth from these sources, and sometimes they do, but nothing is better than taking the time to read it for ourselves.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 12:10:31. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:17:29 PM · #437 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I'm guessing that you also believe that they add no additional stress to our educational system either, huh? Illegals will always cost the country and give nothing in return. |
Yes, they will always cost the country something (as will the homeless, the elderly, the severely disabled...), but they also offer irreplaceable cheap labor for several industries in return. Regardless, it's a red herring â nobody is proposing that free healthcare be extended to illegals.
Originally posted by ericwoo:
The status quo is working for me. Maybe you should take it upon yourself and figure out how to get the status quo to work for you. |
That status quo has worked for me, too (if you mean having coverage), but it's FAR more expensive and cumbersome than it should be. I'm not as comfortable as you are with flushing time and money down the toilet. You cannot bury your head in the sand and pretend that we're not paying more than any other country in the world for healthcare and not receiving the best care in return for that money.
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I'd much rather be in debt with a safe country than pretend we give a damn about you having free healthcare. Remember the Cold War, or was that just some republican-perpetuated conspiracy... Defense spending should never falter. This world is a bad place. Without the ability to protect and defend our country, and the liberals incessant need to fight every perceived human rights violation around the globe, do you really thing we can maintain our own sovereignty? |
Well that much practically IS a Republican-led conspiracy. The U.S. spends more on defense than the European Union, China, Russia, India, France, the United Kingdom, and Germany combined. It's simply not necessary to always spend more and more on defense. Being in debt is inherently UNsafe, and the threat of an economic collapse is at least as dangerous as any foreign power. As with healthcare, it's about spending wisely, not spending more. The current defense secretary had to fight to stop production of F-22 Raptors â a plane that costs well over $100M each, yet isn't even used in Afghanistan or Iraq, yet 11 terrorist managed to bring this country to its knees with utility knives. We rely too much on our wallets and not enough on our heads. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:20:15 PM · #438 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by SDW:
Not exactly true about illegal immigrants. You are quoting a 2008 article. Below is from the Hr3200 bill.... |
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 â NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
Clear enough for you? |
Your talking credits; I'm talking penalties. Not the same.
If a US citizen is subject to a 2.5% penalties so should a non-US citizen, right?
CLEAR ENOUGH!!
For more clarity for HR3200. Below you will see why there will be no 'affordability credit'. If an illegal immigrant is in the US then they don't file taxes, so no credit.
IN GENERAL.âIn applying this subtitle for an
3 affordability credit for an individual for a plan year, the
4 individualâs income shall be the income (as defined in sec5
tion 242(c)) for the individual for the most recent taxable
6 year (as determined in accordance with rules of the Com7
missioner). The Federal poverty level applied shall be such
8 level in effect as of the date of the application. |
If I follow you, isn't the affordability credit the part of the insurance premium that the federal government will pay for low-income folks? So doesn't that mean no taxpayer funds can be expended to pay for health insurance for illegal aliens? Scalvert's original statement was that there is nothing in the bill that would benefit illegal aliens, so I believe his statement is correct.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 12:24:57. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:33:16 PM · #439 |
Originally posted by SDW:
If an illegal immigrant is in the US then they don't file taxes, so no credit. |
...and no penalty for the same reason. Duh.
H.R. 3200: Sec 242 reiterates the principle that illegals are not covered, stating that âthe term âaffordable credit eligible individualâ means ⦠an individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States.â In other words, no federal subsidies for you if youâre in the country illegally. Besides, illegal immigrants arenât eligible for federal health programs under current law. Emergency room care is covered for anyone, as it is now, because it's unreasonable to ask for a birth certificate while you're unconscious or having a heart attack. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:38:46 PM · #440 |
Originally posted by SDW:
NONRESIDENT ALIENS. âShall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien. |
By the way, doesn't the term "nonresident alien" mean someone NOT LIVING IN the United States? I'm not even sure this is referring to illegal immigrants. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:43:44 PM · #441 |
| But children of illegal immigrants, illegally born in the country are covered. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:47:57 PM · #442 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
But children of illegal immigrants, illegally born in the country are covered. |
"Illegally born?" Interesting term. So if you're born in the United States, that would make you, what... Panamanian? I suspect native Americans might see this topic a little differently. ;-) |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 12:59:15 PM · #443 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by SDW:
NONRESIDENT ALIENS. âShall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien. |
By the way, doesn't the term "nonresident alien" mean someone NOT LIVING IN the United States? I'm not even sure this is referring to illegal immigrants. |
Correct. Someone who lives in Spain, but has a business in the U.S. would be a non-resident alien and pay taxes on that income. It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 01:07:06 PM · #444 |
| :) I'm sure they would. BTW I think you know what I was attempting to say.Problem is illegal immigrants are getting benefits just because they snuck across a border and gave birth. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 01:12:14 PM · #445 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
:) I'm sure they would. BTW I think you know what I was attempting to say.Problem is illegal immigrants are getting benefits just because they snuck across a border and gave birth. |
What benefits? |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 01:20:34 PM · #446 |
Food stamps, This I know from illegal individual's that worked for my former employer.
Oh, by the way, did you know that if a illegal immigrant fools the system, and works on a state or federal project for 10 months, automatically gets a green card. Just check the workers rights boards on any state or federal project.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 13:40:09. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 01:43:14 PM · #447 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by SDW:
NONRESIDENT ALIENS. âShall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien. |
By the way, doesn't the term "nonresident alien" mean someone NOT LIVING IN the United States? I'm not even sure this is referring to illegal immigrants. |
From what I read, and I'm not totally sure, the states will be mandated to cover illegal immigrants under new guidelines introduced in each states medicaid program. I will have to look up the current medicaid bill and look at it's sub-sections on 133% poverty coverage as it pertains to non-documented immigrants.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 13:43:57. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 01:43:22 PM · #448 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
Food stamps, This I know from illegal individual's that worked for my former employer. |
Illegal immigrants are ineligible for food stamps by law unless a member of the immediate family is a U.S. citizen. If you're born here, you are a U.S. citizen... which is why I'm not a citizen of Great Britain even though my family originally came from there (and founded Maryland). |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 01:47:07 PM · #449 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by alans_world:
Food stamps, This I know from illegal individual's that worked for my former employer. |
Illegal immigrants are ineligible for food stamps by law unless a member of the immediate family is a U.S. citizen. If you're born here, you are a U.S. citizen... which is why I'm not a citizen of Great Britain even though my family originally came from there (and founded Maryland). |
you are correct but the problem is that one will be a US citizen and they are allowed to claim the maximum dependents (which are not eligible on their own) giving them total benefits (the maximum allowable).
So no matter the way you slice and dice it, the states food stamp program shells out the maximum amount.
Message edited by author 2009-08-09 13:49:40. |
|
|
|
08/09/2009 01:47:54 PM · #450 |
| LOL, around here $75 and a 2 hour trip to Vegas gets you what you need.. |
|
