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07/22/2009 01:44:21 PM · #26 |
| Bear...what I see you doing isn't that bad. And it's not just about giving out all 1's or 2's...but giving out all 10's is pretty much the same thing if you ask me. What I see you doing is pretty much saying...average, above average, below average. I'm talking about the person who just says ever photo is getting a 1 on the first run...and then I'll go back and attempt to vote. Or the person who just gives everyone a 10. |
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07/22/2009 01:47:54 PM · #27 |
Either
A) People who vote low reveal their behavior and why they do it, then we can all come up with a solution to the problem or
B) Allot an amount each voter gets for 1-3, lets say you can only give 15-20% 1-3. So in a challenge of 120 submissions, each person can only hand out 24 1-3 votes max. Granted their may be more you want lower than a 4, I would think most do not deserve such a score.
quite possibly the same could be done for 8-10 (although at a different percentage)
...or just remove the 20% voting limit...
Message edited by author 2009-07-22 13:51:06. |
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07/22/2009 01:51:23 PM · #28 |
The funny thing is, is that what one voter considers a 1, 2 or 3, another voter considers an 8, 9 or 10.
It's all subjective. The scrubber takes care of the issues being described, where a voter votes mostly low or mostly high. |
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07/22/2009 01:54:01 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
The funny thing is, is that what one voter considers a 1, 2 or 3, another voter considers an 8, 9 or 10.
It's all subjective. The scrubber takes care of the issues being described, where a voter votes mostly low or mostly high. |
you keep saying this 'scrubber', is this an actually action that happens?
Message edited by author 2009-07-22 13:54:44. |
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07/22/2009 01:59:34 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by BeefnCheez:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
The funny thing is, is that what one voter considers a 1, 2 or 3, another voter considers an 8, 9 or 10.
It's all subjective. The scrubber takes care of the issues being described, where a voter votes mostly low or mostly high. |
you keep saying this 'scrubber', is this an actually action that happens? |
Yes.
Ever notice your score just before rollover then look after rollover and see a difference?
Message edited by author 2009-07-22 14:00:24. |
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07/22/2009 03:25:09 PM · #31 |
To sum up for people coming in late:
OP made up something that voters might be doing, and then asked them why they were doing it.
A bunch of people who don't do that said what a bad thing it would be if someone were doing that.
A couple of people suggested that robots come in and delete anybody who doesn't vote the way they do.
Still no sign whatsoever of anyone doing what the OP accused them of.
Yup, a classic voting thread! |
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07/22/2009 04:03:36 PM · #32 |
| and we have yet to address the fantasy-problem of fantasy-voters giving every entry a 10, and then coming back and changing them later. If the OP can edit the original post to suggest both kinds of things are happening, then this thread can cover it all!! |
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07/22/2009 04:11:22 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by BeefnCheez:
Either
A) People who vote low reveal their behavior and why they do it, then we can all come up with a solution to the problem or
B) Allot an amount each voter gets for 1-3, lets say you can only give 15-20% 1-3. So in a challenge of 120 submissions, each person can only hand out 24 1-3 votes max. Granted their may be more you want lower than a 4, I would think most do not deserve such a score.
quite possibly the same could be done for 8-10 (although at a different percentage)
...or just remove the 20% voting limit... |
Im a low voter and proud of it! In the street photo challenge I didn't give higher than a 6. Gave a lot of 1s and 2s though.
Does not meet challenge is an instant 1 for me, unless I actually like the image, then I give it a 2. I know people say well its my interpretation of the subject, but thats not how I look at it. If I tell you I want apple pie, and you bring me an apple with a pi sign carved in it, im not gonna be happy. A lot of the challenges here turn into shoe horn free for alls, and that kills the overall spririt of the site/challenge, in my opinion.
Very rarely do I see a photo thats a 10 either, there are the rare few, but overall, lots of 7s and 8s and the occasion 9, but very rarely a 10. (Think of it as girls, I see 7s and 8s alot, but very rarely do you see a perfect 10.)
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07/22/2009 04:12:19 PM · #34 |
| How about the real problem of people who vote a 4 or 5 and leave it there ... :-( |
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07/22/2009 04:12:52 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
To sum up for people coming in late:
Still no sign whatsoever of anyone doing what the OP accused them of.
Yup, a classic voting thread! |
I have a feeling this isn't really happening all that often. Maybe the rare case, but I dont think it happens on the reg. |
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07/22/2009 04:14:01 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
I have a feeling this isn't really happening all that often. Maybe the rare case, but I dont think it happens on the reg. |
What -- these threads come up every 2-3 weeks ... ;-) |
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07/22/2009 04:26:28 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I expect it is just to watch the fun ensue in the scores thread as everyone gripes about trolls and how their entry is not *that* bad. |
Originally posted by albc28:
This is the only logical reason I can see someone doing it. |
Trying to attach a logical explanation to an illogical process will just make you want to beat your head against a hard surface.
It's just a small minded, thoughtless process that demonstrates no decency whatsoever.
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07/22/2009 04:31:43 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
How about the real problem of people who vote a 4 or 5 and leave it there ... :-( |
My real problem is with the large number of people who leave a 4 or less and dont find it worth their time to tell me why they find it substasnfdard.
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07/22/2009 04:38:03 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Im a low voter and proud of it!
Does not meet challenge is an instant 1 for me, unless I actually like the image, then I give it a 2. I know people say well its my interpretation of the subject, but thats not how I look at it. If I tell you I want apple pie, and you bring me an apple with a pi sign carved in it, im not gonna be happy. A lot of the challenges here turn into shoe horn free for alls, and that kills the overall spririt of the site/challenge, in my opinion. |
This is the kind of thinking that discourages creative thinking.
If I ask for apple pie, and you bring me an apple with the pi sign carved into it, I'm going to laugh with delight and admire your willingness to step outside the box.
I *want* to see the extreme, the different, the weird & wild, and I will *always* give a higher score for even a reasonable attempt at creative thinking.
If I can strecth my imagination to understyand an offbeat idea, it automatically gets at least a 6 from me and goes up from there depending on execution of the technicals from there.
I *highly* recommend that you read this tutorial from  posthumous on voting.
It will help you to be both a better voter and photographer.
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07/22/2009 05:30:23 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Bear...what I see you doing isn't that bad. And it's not just about giving out all 1's or 2's...but giving out all 10's is pretty much the same thing if you ask me. What I see you doing is pretty much saying...average, above average, below average. I'm talking about the person who just says ever photo is getting a 1 on the first run...and then I'll go back and attempt to vote. Or the person who just gives everyone a 10. |
"Isn't that bad..."?
Jaysus, it isn't "bad" at all; for some of us, it's by far the most sensible way to vote. I Make a first pass and rank images according to "Doesn't interest me in the slightest", "Workmanlike but uninteresting/unexciting", and "worth coming back to for closer examination." Then over the course of the next few days I revisit all those 6's and bump quite a few of them up to a higher score. During that first pass, an image that REALLY wows me will receive an 8 or a 9 right off the bat, and it may be joined later by others that I have come to appreciate upon review.
What's "bad" about this approach?
R. |
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07/22/2009 05:31:09 PM · #41 |
See, were the exact opposite. While I can appreciate out of the box thinking, I also see how it is often used as a crutch to avoid tackling the actual challenge, which may be something you aren't as comfortable with. Plus, much of the out of the box thought we see on here consists of shooting an image, and then coming up with some sort of witty title that manages to tie it in by a thread with the actual challenge.
I know this isn't the case all the time, as there are no absolutes, but I would look at the MJ Tribute challenge, and look at the entries in there, and tell me that im wrong in that description. |
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07/22/2009 05:53:09 PM · #42 |
| I think the best idea is to list the person's voting average in the list of photographers. In other words, I want to sort by voting average and see the lowest voters and the highest voters. (and while we're at it, I want to see when they last accessed DPC in that same list.) |
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07/22/2009 06:18:55 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I think the best idea is to list the person's voting average in the list of photographers. In other words, I want to sort by voting average and see the lowest voters and the highest voters. (and while we're at it, I want to see when they last accessed DPC in that same list.) |
So then you create an atmosphere that encourages people to vote high so they don't look bad. Then the scale effectively moves from 1 to 10 to 6 to 10 (for example). Then people would moan that some A$$ came along and dropped a 6 on them. It's all relative and I think it all pretty much works out the same for everyone. The actual score ratio remains fairly constant, I think.
Message edited by author 2009-07-22 18:19:28. |
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07/22/2009 06:43:57 PM · #44 |
Yeah but it could be the difference between my photo really really really not getting a ribbon and really really not getting a ribbon. You see? ;-)
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07/22/2009 07:24:26 PM · #45 |
I give this thread a 1.
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07/22/2009 07:40:23 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
I also see how it is often used as a crutch to avoid tackling the actual challenge, which may be something you aren't as comfortable with. Plus, much of the out of the box thought we see on here consists of shooting an image, and then coming up with some sort of witty title that manages to tie it in by a thread with the actual challenge. |
There is sometimes a fine line between creative interpretation and a shoehorn. Only the photographer really knows if it was truly a shoehorned entry, and only the perception of the voter makes it actually become one.
I have sometimes given the benefit of the doubt only to find later on that the member intentionally entered something they knew did not suit the challenge. Other times, I have left a comment suggesting a shoehornhed pic, only to find it was a genuine effort to meet the challenge in a unique way. (Speaking of which, I owe an apology to  skewsme)
Message edited by author 2009-07-22 19:41:10. |
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07/22/2009 08:14:58 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
See, were the exact opposite. While I can appreciate out of the box thinking, I also see how it is often used as a crutch to avoid tackling the actual challenge, which may be something you aren't as comfortable with. |
And again, I think we're worlds apart here....
I see out of the box entries as a creative expression. If I'm not comfortable with a challenge topic, I simply don't enter.
I've spent hours shooting and processing only to decide I don't have anything worthwhile and just passed on a challenge.
I somehow don't grasp the OOB concept as a salvaging crutch....8>)
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Plus, much of the out of the box thought we see on here consists of shooting an image, and then coming up with some sort of witty title that manages to tie it in by a thread with the actual challenge. |
Again, I don't agree at all. I certainly don't feel that a title driven entry constitutes an OOB entry; to me that's a card-carrying example of shoehorning.
And I say that as someone who has specifically done that, and I have the votes slapping me down for doing so.
There are some title driven images that are the most harmonious melds of image and thought and they do well.
A stellar example IMO is: 
And personally, I don't think this would have scored as well without the nudge from the title....
I dunno.....I guess this is a sterling example of how and why scoring happens the way it does.....different strokes!
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07/22/2009 09:35:14 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by albc28:
But I know that there are several people who go through a challenge and vote each photo a 1 or a 2....and then go back later to do their real voting.
Can someone explain to me why you would do that? What is the logic or reasoning behind that? And I don't mean just voting everyone a 1 or a 2, but this goes to the people who vote everyone a 10 also. |
because the voters are tired of those post-submission whats-your-score threads. |
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07/22/2009 10:27:06 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by crayon:
because the voters are tired of those post-submission whats-your-score threads. |
Perhaps the few voters that are not also participants. Besides, the whining and bragging in the score thread is an important part of the "DPChallenge experience". |
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07/22/2009 10:34:45 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by albc28:
But I know that there are several people who go through a challenge and vote each photo a 1 or a 2....and then go back later to do their real voting.
Can someone explain to me why you would do that? What is the logic or reasoning behind that? And I don't mean just voting everyone a 1 or a 2, but this goes to the people who vote everyone a 10 also. |
because the voters are tired of those post-submission whats-your-score threads. |
You better disappear. I'm finding these everywhere.
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