| Author | Thread |
|
|
01/25/2004 03:14:09 AM · #1 |
There are two people in this world: those that can take critique and those that cannot. There is an entry in the road signs challenge that is of questionable content and I wrote that in my comments. Then earlier today I receive an email (private message) from the photographer and I was basically put in my place because it is a common sight in other parts of the world and that I should know what it is. Having not seen one before, I also mentioned in my comments that it didn't look like a street sign. I went on to explain what usually constitues a street sign (stop, yield, speed limit etc).
What I'm trying to rant about is this: if you cannot take the comments/critique well no matter if it's good or bad, why are you submitting to DPC in the first place? You submit your entries knowing that they will be looked at by many MANY people and not everyone will like what they see. It's a fact of life. They are asked to leave comments on what they see and that's what I did. I didn't whine about comments with my first entry (which did poorly-40th percentile or when my 2nd entry failed-13th percentile). You learn from them. That's why we use this site! I'm certainly learning from others' input about what I submit for challenges. Look at my scores and you'll see them climb as my current scores are in the 86th percentile. I suggest you take the comments seriously and learn from them and lose the attitude.
I will now step down and stop ranting. Flame away if you wish.
Edited stuff:
I forgot that I didn't mention what constitutes a street sign in the comments but I did so in a reply to the PM I received.
Message edited by author 2004-01-26 01:00:08. |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 03:51:42 AM · #2 |
| Well said! (Sounds of polite clapping as he steps down from the orange crate) |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 05:03:29 AM · #3 |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 05:16:23 AM · #4 |
well I don't know what you said, but you will soon find out how frustrating it is when someone comments on your photograph, and you can just tell they have no idea what you were trying to portray.
Some people may respond with an explanation, I think that is fair enough.
It works on both sides, some people don't like negative critique - then they shouldn't post here. Others don't like having thier critique critiqued, and if that is the case should just vote and leave no comment.
One of the biggest things I have learnt from DPC is being able to take critisism.
|
|
|
|
01/25/2004 07:15:36 AM · #5 |
I agree, some people can't take a critique.
Some people, on the other hand, can not critique. They just like to tear apart a photo by being anal retentive and not paying any attentio to the potential of an image. So that makes four kinds of people? Just food for thought. lol.
|
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:01:29 AM · #6 |
I think being able to accept criticism is a key to becoming a better photographer. The learning here stems from a lot of different sources. Reading what people think of your photographs is part of it. Writing about what you think is right or wrong with other photos is also part of it. I've gotten a couple comments that really rubbed me the wrong way, but I sure the heck don't let it get to me. But there are some people who walk thru this life with a chip on their shoulder all the time. You can't distinguish who they are or aren't especially during voting. Say what's on your mind and be polite but to the point. If they are already the greatest photographer in the world, you are obviously wrong about whatever you say. If they are intent on improving their skills, they just might listen.
There are definitely THREE kinds of people in this world. Those who can do math and those who can't.
That's all I got for now - Bob
|
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:06:33 AM · #7 |
| What I do is i look up there profile and look at there pictures and where they placed in all of the contests most of the time it goes to show you that they have no clue about what there talking about, and there pics arent any better. |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:27:41 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by inspzil:
There are definitely THREE kinds of people in this world. Those who can do math and those who can't. |
LOL -- I liked the rest of what you said too ... |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:37:22 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by dtouch1:
What I do is i look up there profile and look at there pictures and where they placed in all of the contests most of the time it goes to show you that they have no clue about what there talking about, and there pics arent any better. |
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Don't tell people that or I will surely lose any credibility that I DID have.
|
|
|
|
01/25/2004 11:49:09 AM · #10 |
From your post I'm pretty sure I got the exact same PM from the same person about my comment on their entry.
But I certainly didn't feel it carried such a negative tone as one may assume from your post.
I felt a certain frustration on the part of the photographer that so many had not understood what the object actually was (though one hopes he learns from this that the site is predominated by users from the USA and around the world and hence, objects specific to only one country will often not fare well on the site).
But I also felt that his email was sent in the spirit of conveying understanding to those who had taken time to comment rather than an angry missive against their lack of understanding.
I certainly find it less stressful to work on that premise in any case. It's nicer to think the best rather than the worst is it not?
That said, I do appreciate your general sentiment - sometimes on really does get PMs from entrants who really don't appreciate being told ANYTHING even remotely negative in the eyes of the commenter about their image.
|
|
|
|
01/25/2004 01:45:45 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by inspzil:
I think being able to accept criticism is a key to becoming a better photographer. The learning here stems from a lot of different sources. Reading what people think of your photographs is part of it. Writing about what you think is right or wrong with other photos is also part of it. I've gotten a couple comments that really rubbed me the wrong way, but I sure the heck don't let it get to me. But there are some people who walk thru this life with a chip on their shoulder all the time. You can't distinguish who they are or aren't especially during voting. Say what's on your mind and be polite but to the point. If they are already the greatest photographer in the world, you are obviously wrong about whatever you say. If they are intent on improving their skills, they just might listen. |
Exactly my point. My comment was not abusive nor was it rude or excessive. It was short and concise. I also make it a point (where applicable) to indicate what I also thought was good in the image despite not liking the entry. I feel I owe it to the photographer to tell him/her both the good and bad aspects. And I did so for that particular photograph. |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 02:33:27 PM · #12 |
I think the hardest ones to critique are the ones where you just can't figure out what they were trying to accomplish with a particular photo. Ones that are sort of abstract, but not totally, but they really don't speak to you on any sort of level or portray any real theme except to show you that they included this thing which is what the challenge dictated. I've really shyed away from commenting on those during voting, but sometimes you come across one in Critique Club stuff.
There was a photo I did an lengthy comment for that I made it a point to tell the photographer that I actually did like the photo even though I brought up 4 or 5 things that I found detracting from the image's overall quality. He happened to win the next challenge too. Because you share an image with us that maybe isn't your best stuff doesn't make you a bad photographer. I think its the folks that can't take a comment for being just a comment and that take it so personally as a blow to their ego that refute everything you say about their photo. They make it hard to want to comment
Bob
|
|
|
|
01/25/2004 07:14:20 PM · #13 |
| I've received PMs about comments I've made on specific photos, before the challenges have ended. Since that basically ends anonymity, I think it's generally bad form. I'm happy to discuss my comments afterward. I wonder whether comments could be anonymous until after the challenge ends? |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 07:50:49 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by cmangis:
I've received PMs about comments I've made on specific photos, before the challenges have ended. Since that basically ends anonymity, I think it's generally bad form. I'm happy to discuss my comments afterward. I wonder whether comments could be anonymous until after the challenge ends? |
We used to have anonymous comments, but after much discussion have gone with the present system.
I only respond to comments during the challenge if the person asks a specific question and seems to want to know before the voting ends. |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 07:56:13 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by cmangis:
I've received PMs about comments I've made on specific photos, before the challenges have ended. Since that basically ends anonymity, I think it's generally bad form. I'm happy to discuss my comments afterward. I wonder whether comments could be anonymous until after the challenge ends? |
There isn't' a rule against responding to a comment during the challenge. I see this as harmless as your only revealing yourself to one person and maybe their friend . Often they just want to know the answer to a question that can possible improve your score. :) A girl can have hope!! |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:03:49 PM · #16 |
| Whatever to the idea of having the voter's comments be anonymous until voting is over? |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:25:14 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Whatever to the idea of having the voter's comments be anonymous until voting is over? |
I was all for keeping anonymity during voting when we switched to the new site format. But apparently I was in the minority. So we know who left what comments.
Personally, I don't hesitate to respond to comments left on my photos. Usually its just clarifying something for someone. I don't beg for better votes nor do I expect them. If we weren't supposed to do it, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE PUT THE NAMES UP. I don't see what the big deal is. It's only a big deal if you make it a big deal.
Bob
|
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:42:14 PM · #18 |
| From a submitter of some LOUSY photos I can say that what t's people off is not when someone says its out of focus or the lighting or composition is bad- but when someone totally misses the point and is obnoxious about insisting that they did get it and its just a bad photo. One side of me says its just a damn photo but one side of me says email the idiot back if it makes you feel better. |
|
|
|
01/25/2004 10:53:07 PM · #19 |
| Photography, as is any art is SOOO subjective. What one person loves, another thinks is trash...that is part of what makes it so great. I had a graphic design business for a lot of years, and the first thing I learned, is not to take things so personally. That being said, there is a constructive way to criticize and not make the crticizeee want to crawl into their camera bag and never come out. After all the object of this site is to help each get better. i think the most important thing to remember when you write comments is to remember that there is a PERSON out their that will be reading it. |
|
|
|
01/26/2004 10:03:41 AM · #20 |
Yes, it's subjective, and yes, it's annoying when people don't get what you're trying to do. Some of my favorite shots have scored low overall. I'm not objecting to discussion, just to those who PM in an attempt to sway votes in their favor. After all, if you have to justify and explain the shot, maybe it's not quite as wonderful as you think it is.
All this is making me sound so cranky! I'm really not, and I haven't minded some of the early PMs I received. I just think that protests and confrontations should come after the contest--the photo should stand on its own merits during. Now I'll let it go! :) |
|
|
|
01/26/2004 03:36:12 PM · #21 |
Good constructive critique is great. It wouldn't even bother me if someone were just honest enough to say that they personally don't care for one of my shots. What really irritates, however, are these folks who leave comments like "nothing of interest here". First off, it feels like a slap - obviously, *I* thought it was interesting, otherwise I'd not have entered it. Even if the commenter does not like it, there may well be others who do. I've received such comments twice, and while I didn't respond, I sure felt like it - neither of these folks had ever entered a challenge nor had any pix up in their portfolios. So, I guess I should take such comments with a grain of salt. Bottom line, if you can't think of anything good (constructive) to say, then better to keep your fingers off the keys!
Stepping down off my soapbox now . . .
|
|
|
|
01/26/2004 03:46:01 PM · #22 |
I know exactly what photo and photographer you are describing since I got the general message as well after leaving a comment. And in no way did I find their response to be out of place. I definetly read that he was frustrated and I responded saying "thank you for the explanation of your subject" as that was what I was confused about to begin with.. he didn't put ME on the spot. I had this problem before where I PM'd a commentor to explain a photo and she immediately went off her head ranting about how I was trying to sway her vote and it was sooooo NOT what I had intended at all. I wrote DPC admin about it and they said I shouldn't message people during challenges since it's poor character and points to me wanting to force people to change their votes.. Excuse me? I hadn't even mentioned anything about my score to the woman.
Message edited by author 2004-01-26 15:49:36. |
|
|
|
01/26/2004 03:48:06 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by cmangis:
Yes, it's subjective, and yes, it's annoying when people don't get what you're trying to do. Some of my favorite shots have scored low overall. I'm not objecting to discussion, just to those who PM in an attempt to sway votes in their favor. After all, if you have to justify and explain the shot, maybe it's not quite as wonderful as you think it is.
All this is making me sound so cranky! I'm really not, and I haven't minded some of the early PMs I received. I just think that protests and confrontations should come after the contest--the photo should stand on its own merits during. Now I'll let it go! :) |
Many famous artists were wrist-slapped in their time for not conforming to the normal view....I'm sure they spent their lives explaining their art, doesn't make it any less brilliant. I just thought I'd mention that..... |
|
|
|
01/26/2004 04:05:15 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
well I don't know what you said, but you will soon find out how frustrating it is when someone comments on your photograph, and you can just tell they have no idea what you were trying to portray.
|
I know I'm probably in the minority, but if someone tells me that my photograph has left them with no idea what I was trying to portray I consider my photograph to have failed.
The whole point of taking photographs to a theme is to convey that theme. If you're not conveying it, you're doing something wrong.
(just a side note, I KNOW you can't please all the people all of the time, and there will always be cultural walls - but the above is an aspiration :-)) |
|
|
|
02/02/2004 06:27:46 PM · #25 |
My biggest inspiration in modern times is that Chiatt Day's 1984 commercial for Apple MacIntosh was almost rejected by Apple before it aired to become one of the most admired and effective ads of the 20th century. I often think to myself what it must have felt like to the creative types at Chiatt Day when the ad execs at Apple hated the ad so much that they considered pulling it the day before the Super Bowl (at a loss to Apple of 1.5 million dollars). Wozniak had to offer to pay for half of it out of his own pocket to get them to air it. So, although it's good to take some notice of what one's audience feels about one's work, one's audience is not always right in terms of whether or not you've created something good. Creative people have to find a balance somehow, or create one, an internal gyroscope perhaps.
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/28/2025 11:04:13 AM EDT.
