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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Announcements >> 'From the Ground Up V' results recalculated
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 07/02/2009 08:37:31 PM · #1
the blue ribbon winner in the 'From the Ground Up V' challenge has been disqualified due to illegal layer blending modes.

congrats to GIS_boy on his yellow ribbon.
 07/02/2009 09:27:57 PM · #2
I can not tell you how upset I am! I don't know why they determined that I used any layers other than the approved adjustment layers, but I did not! I adjusted the selective color, the brightness/contrast, levels and colors, but I was so careful not to do ANYTHING that was not basic editing. This was the cleanest editing job that I think I have ever done.

I know once site council has made their decision, there is nothing that can change it, but this is truly an unjust disqualification.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 21:34:33.
 07/02/2009 09:30:05 PM · #3
Did you change any of the blending modes from normal?
Hope it gets sorted out.
 07/02/2009 09:33:22 PM · #4
No! I did not! This photo seriously required almost no editing. I almost could have entered it straight from the camera, but I lightened it up thru selective color and contrast, levels and all the legal things you are allowed to do. There was nothing that wasn't in normal mode!

Edit: sorry. I'm shaking I'm so angry.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 21:35:46.
 07/02/2009 09:38:07 PM · #5
Too bad Sandy, it seems like you did everything right from your explanation. Hopefully some SC will come in and explain what the Dq'able offense is in a bit more detail. Good luck to you. Your shot is still wonderful. :)
 07/02/2009 09:39:23 PM · #6
This is my untouched original. You can see there was nothing that needed to be done to this except lighten it up and boost the contrast a little. Oh, and I flipped it horizontally, because I thought it flowed better from the eyes going from left to right.



Message edited by author 2009-07-02 21:39:56.
 07/02/2009 09:40:52 PM · #7
Do you still have the Photoshop PSD file? If that still has all the layers in it, you could send that to SC.
07/02/2009 09:42:48 PM · #8
This has been concerning me -- the determination is from whether or not they can reproduce it? I can't even reproduce my own stuff, and I did it the first time around. Every time I have a photo that does well, I'm scared to death about the validation -- even though I'm barely doing anything to the photos (I don't know how to do much...)

Why can't you ask for Sandy's photoshop file? Her adjustment layers should be there -- Just by clicking on them you can see whether they were applying in normal mode or not. It seems so incredibly easy to check this -- why DQ her just because you haven't come up with the same thing?

Edited to add: JH beat me to it.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 21:43:35.
 07/02/2009 09:43:38 PM · #9
Yes, I do. I have my TIFF file. It shows my adjustment layers in Selective color, brightness, and levels.

07/02/2009 09:46:26 PM · #10
I know I was certainly surprised.....I'll be curious to see if there's some further research.

Did they contact you to discuss the possible DQ?
 07/02/2009 09:46:49 PM · #11
No, Jeb, they didn't. I got the computerized impersonal note with the standard, "You may use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type . . . . .Thank you for your participation in dpChallenge. . ." Grrrrrrrr

And I know that no amount of presenting your case and trying to make site council see that they made a mistake ever makes a difference. I am just going to log out of dpChallenge, and try to put this AND dpChallenge behind me until I can get over it -- and it will take me a very long time.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 21:48:27.
 07/02/2009 09:47:02 PM · #12
Originally posted by SandyP:
Yes, I do. I have my TIFF file. It shows my adjustment layers in Selective color, brightness, and levels.

The PSD file is what you need (the Photoshop one) - That's the only one where the layers you applied will be visible. The TIFF file will just be a flattened graphic image with no layer information.

So if you have the image open in Photoshop, where you can see all the layers and stuff, then Save As... Photoshop (PSD)
 07/02/2009 09:51:07 PM · #13
Please, SC, explain this one to me. In looking at the original, you sure don't need anything but levels in normal mode...
 07/02/2009 09:53:06 PM · #14
Originally posted by SandyP:
And I know that no amount of presenting your case and trying to make site council see that they made a mistake ever makes a difference.


For once I'd like to see what happens if someone presents enough evidence to SC (i.e. the PSD file, with all the layers intact) - To see if SC reverse the DQ. Or if we get told to 'just let this one go' again...
 07/02/2009 09:53:56 PM · #15
From the steps we were given (this is just one step)



Originally posted by Sandy's photog notes:
Created a duplicate background layer and changed the mode to âScreenâ to lighten it up â then reduced the opacity of the layer to about 35%


You can't change the mode to screen. only NORMAL is allowed. when you selected "screen" you were no longer using a "normal" blending mode.
 07/02/2009 09:53:58 PM · #16
the photog is welcome to post the information that she provided to us if she chooses.

suffice it to say that, using the editing steps that the photographer provided, we were able to reproduce the image. whether or not you are able to do it through any other means is irrelevant.

i don't mean to sound like i'm coming down on Sandy -- i'm not, and i don't enjoy DQ'ing images in these circumstances. basic editing is very restrictive on what you can do with layers, and contestants need to be aware of that.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 21:54:10.
 07/02/2009 09:54:20 PM · #17
Originally posted by SandyP:
No, Jeb, they didn't. I got the computerized impersonal note with the standard, "You may use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type . . . . .Thank you for your participation in dpChallenge. . ." Grrrrrrrr

And I know that no amount of presenting your case and trying to make site council see that they made a mistake ever makes a difference. I am just going to log out of dpChallenge, and try to put this AND dpChallenge behind me until I can get over it -- and it will take me a very long time.


Don't give up just yet Sandy! Anything can happen - and it could work back in your favor. And please don't leave DPC!
 07/02/2009 09:55:13 PM · #18
I see you flipped your image horizontally, is that legal in Basic?

Also I believe you can save tiff files with their layers.

I always wondered why you couldn't send in a small resized .psd file, especially for Basic challenges, where there are no masks. Resize the image to 200-300 pixels to keep the file size small and make sure to put it in 8 bit mode. The file size wouldn't be too large.
 07/02/2009 09:56:45 PM · #19
Hang on, where'd Karmat's post go? That seems to have answered the questions. Not sure why you hid it?
 07/02/2009 09:58:29 PM · #20
it's back. muck and i were tripping on eachother. :P
07/02/2009 09:58:47 PM · #21
Originally posted by karmat:
it's back. muck and i were tripping on eachother. :P


karma's big feet.
 07/02/2009 10:00:54 PM · #22
Originally posted by muckpond:
the photog is welcome to post the information that she provided to us if she chooses.

suffice it to say that, using the editing steps that the photographer provided, we were able to reproduce the image. whether or not you are able to do it through any other means is irrelevant.

i don't mean to sound like i'm coming down on Sandy -- i'm not, and i don't enjoy DQ'ing images in these circumstances. basic editing is very restrictive on what you can do with layers, and contestants need to be aware of that.


Wait, why is this so nebulous? Can't you just out with it and say "X adjustment layer was in Y blending mode" according to the photographer's provided steps? This seems like a weird DQ to be controvertial. Either she did it or not. It should be obvious to everybody and I don't get why Sandy, a long term member, and the SC, people who know what they are doing, seem at odds about the basic rules.
 07/02/2009 10:03:06 PM · #23
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Wait, why is this so nebulous? Can't you just out with it and say "X adjustment layer was in Y blending mode" according to the photographer's provided steps?


it's not nebulous, really. we don't have an official policy about what private communications we will and will not publish and i just tend to err on the side of caution.

karma answered more bluntly than i did.
 07/02/2009 10:03:34 PM · #24
Seriously. There needs to be a review of the transparency of the validation/dq process. It's not like we don't believe SC; but these DQ threads rapidly descend into frustration and confusion.
 07/02/2009 10:04:58 PM · #25
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by muckpond:
the photog is welcome to post the information that she provided to us if she chooses.

suffice it to say that, using the editing steps that the photographer provided, we were able to reproduce the image. whether or not you are able to do it through any other means is irrelevant.

i don't mean to sound like i'm coming down on Sandy -- i'm not, and i don't enjoy DQ'ing images in these circumstances. basic editing is very restrictive on what you can do with layers, and contestants need to be aware of that.


Wait, why is this so nebulous? Can't you just out with it and say "X adjustment layer was in Y blending mode" according to the photographer's provided steps? This seems like a weird DQ to be controvertial. Either she did it or not. It should be obvious to everybody and I don't get why Sandy, a long term member, and the SC, people who know what they are doing, seem at odds about the basic rules.


I agree -- it's when we don't understand the dq's that gets us so upset. At the very least, explain it to the person that was DQ'd -- it could that person a heck of a lot of aggravation, and prevent bigger misunderstandings.

edited to add -- why can't you just add a line or two explaining exactly what the problem is when sending your DQ message? The generic reason doesn't explain much if you think you're doing things right.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 22:06:38.
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