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07/01/2009 02:34:55 PM · #1 |
ok i made a deal for my rodeo clients that if they bought my biggest print packages they would receive a DVD of the photos i took. One of my clients seems to have it backwards, she wants me to burn her a DVD of all the photos and then she will pick the ones she wants prints of. Should i do that but just make the photos quite small? im just not sure how to handle this DVD thing. plus, each of my clients has about 100-150 photos to chose from, so resizing all of those photos is going to be a pain in the ass.
i guess i just need some suggestions and advice from peeps who have delt with this type of thing before. thanks |
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07/01/2009 02:40:17 PM · #2 |
You can batch-resize them with Photoshop or IrfanView (and probably most other editing software).
I'd either make them really small (e.g. 320x240) or add a watermark in the batch process, if you want to make sure only you can print them. |
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07/01/2009 02:40:24 PM · #3 |
use your newfound Lightroom superpowers to batch resize and copyright/watermark the photos automagically. :)
i wouldn't burn a disc, though. post them online somewhere. |
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07/01/2009 02:43:15 PM · #4 |
did you try the direct way? Explain to your customer that the DVD only comes after a certain print package is purchased(and paid for)? More than likely it is a misunderstanding that can easily be cleared up. If she wants a CD/DVD to use when she chooses here prints, then go ahead and give her a 700pix image(long side) with a little LadyK copyright symbol. She'll figure out pretty quick that they aren't printable files. In fact, make it clear to her with a letter that the CD/DVD does not contain printable files. Bottom line, be upfront with her.
Resizing is pretty quick using batch processing in PS or even easier with lightroom. In PS you will need to separate the files into landscape and portrait orientations before running the resize process. |
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07/01/2009 02:45:16 PM · #5 |
I agree... batch processing for these ::might:: not be that bad. To make it easier you might want to keep all your cropping to a specific aspect ratio to make things easier for the whole batch thing.
As  muckpond said... remember, with the DVD you are basically giving them free reign for printing/licensing (not exlusive, of course).
If you have already stated your packages clearly, it isn't crazy for you to point out that they have it backwards. After all, you did explain that it was in addition to other things. Stick to your packages. |
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07/01/2009 02:47:33 PM · #6 |
| Since you have lightroom... it will take you about 3 minutes to USM for small size and export the jpgs at any given size. :) It is magic! |
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07/01/2009 02:48:29 PM · #7 |
| she wants to use the digital images for scrapbooking(i think its online scrapbooking). so i was thinking of resizing everything to 1000pix so she could actually use them for that. and i didnt know you could resize stuff in Lightroom, how cool! |
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07/01/2009 02:54:27 PM · #8 |
| crap. she says they have to be high res. i dont know how to work around this, its frustrating |
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07/01/2009 02:58:05 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
crap. she says they have to be high res. i dont know how to work around this, its frustrating |
Stick to your package. Did you original package include Hi-Res? Even so, she would still have to buy everything else.
This isn't a yard sale or a car auction. It's standard business. |
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07/01/2009 02:59:53 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
crap. she says they have to be high res. |
No, they don't, within your original terms.
If she wants to buy high-res images on disc that is a completely separate deal from what you'd agreed to before, and you are free to negotiate a price for this new service/product. Most of the wedding/event photographers I've seen posting here, if they give the images on disc at all, charge in the hndreds of dollars for it. |
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07/01/2009 03:01:23 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by LadyK:
crap. she says they have to be high res. i dont know how to work around this, its frustrating |
Stick to your package. Did you original package include Hi-Res? Even so, she would still have to buy everything else.
This isn't a yard sale or a car auction. It's standard business. |
she is paying me the package price (either $150 or $200 depending on the package she choses) when i give her the disk. i did not state that the disk would have high res photos, it was just a last minute idea i came up with so people could have their photos online for email or whatever.
should i just put a copyright in the corner of every photo and tell her to deal with it? |
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07/01/2009 03:03:01 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LadyK:
crap. she says they have to be high res. |
No, they don't, within your original terms.
If she wants to buy high-res images on disc that is a completely separate deal from what you'd agreed to before, and you are free to negotiate a price for this new service/product. Most of the wedding/event photographers I've seen posting here, if they give the images on disc at all, charge in the hndreds of dollars for it. |
but i feel bad negotiating terms after the fact, like im abusing the situation since i didnt state high res or not. and im not old enough(it feels at least) to through my weight around as a pro, even though i am, technically |
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07/01/2009 03:20:12 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
but i feel bad negotiating terms after the fact, like im abusing the situation since i didnt state high res or not. and im not old enough(it feels at least) to through my weight around as a pro, even though i am, technically |
No, she's the one attempting to re-negotiate your stated terms after the fact. You agreed to provide some images (resolution unstated, but as a low-res slideshow is probably "industry-standard") with a complete print package. She can order that. If she wants anything else, it's a new deal, and you are free to set any price you want, or simply refuse to sell the high-res images -- it's "against your policy." |
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07/01/2009 03:21:20 PM · #14 |
As far as the weight things go ( weight is not a trivial matter!), you can chalk this up as a "you live, you learn" experience due to inexperience. Or you can say "I'm not an idiot, I know what this sort of images usually go for." To me, it sounds like you fall victim to not clarifying your product and will suffer a reputation hit as a result if you trying to get what you likely deserve.
I don't really think you can go back on what you say without suffering a big hit in terms of how the community views you. :(
Message edited by author 2009-07-01 15:22:21. |
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07/01/2009 03:21:54 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LadyK:
but i feel bad negotiating terms after the fact, like im abusing the situation since i didnt state high res or not. and im not old enough(it feels at least) to through my weight around as a pro, even though i am, technically |
No, she's the one attempting to re-negotiate your stated terms after the fact. You agreed to provide some images (resolution unstated, but as a low-res slideshow is probably "industry-standard") with a complete print package. She can order that. If she wants anything else, it's a new deal, and you are free to set any price you want, or simply refuse to sell the high-res images -- it's "against your policy." |
ugh, ok. ill discuss it with her. i just feel like im getting screwed selling my gold you know? ok, ill be back in a few |
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07/01/2009 03:25:01 PM · #16 |
| ok peeps, how much would you sell a high res disk of 103 photos to a parent. |
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07/01/2009 03:26:38 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
As far as the weight things go ( weight is not a trivial matter!), you can chalk this up as a "you live, you learn" experience due to inexperience. Or you can say "I'm not an idiot, I know what this sort of images usually go for." To me, it sounds like you fall victim to not clarifying your product and will suffer a reputation hit as a result if you trying to get what you likely deserve.
I don't really think you can go back on what you say without suffering a big hit in terms of how the community views you. :( |
im going to stick with the live and learn policy, cause i never even thought of stating high or low res. now i know:) and the area of the community i am working with(the rodeo) isnt a community i have a good reputation with anyways, so this isnt too bad of a hit. |
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07/01/2009 03:31:04 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
As far as the weight things go ( weight is not a trivial matter!), you can chalk this up as a "you live, you learn" experience due to inexperience. Or you can say "I'm not an idiot, I know what this sort of images usually go for." To me, it sounds like you fall victim to not clarifying your product and will suffer a reputation hit as a result if you trying to get what you likely deserve.
I don't really think you can go back on what you say without suffering a big hit in terms of how the community views you. :( |
im going to stick with the live and learn policy, cause i never even thought of stating high or low res. now i know:) and the area of the community i am working with(the rodeo) isnt a community i have a good reputation with anyways, so this isnt too bad of a hit. |
Yeah... that's kinda why I said what I did. But to me, you gotta consider... it isn't always about you being correct in things when it comes to public reputation. If a customer feels wronged they will make it VERY apparent to those they know. Of course, as you said, this might not be a demograhic you want to have as clientele, but it's worth consideration.
I'll openly admit that the professional side of things I've engaged in has been limited, but the vast majority was through association and word of mouth from other clients, so don't underestimate it. |
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07/01/2009 03:37:57 PM · #19 |
thanks Derek, i appriciate your help. word of mouth is actually the only way i have to advertise for senior portraits at my school, so i know how useful, as well as dangerous, it can be.
i sent the woman an email stating i feel uncomfortable selling her my high res photos with a package since they are my ultimate product. i stated that we need to discuss a different price for the high res disk since i was planning on having my disks be unprintable.
i hate this stuff, i wish everything just worked out the first time. grawr |
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07/01/2009 04:42:55 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
use your newfound Lightroom superpowers to batch resize and copyright/watermark the photos automagically. :)
i wouldn't burn a disc, though. post them online somewhere. |
I agree completely with the statement above. This is *precisely* the product workflow I follow, and the product workflow "endorsed" and supported by Exposuremanager.com, who I use for my own event ordering system. They call it "display only workflow" -- you simply upload small "web-resolution" images, let the clients pick which images they want, and they place their order. You can have EM process the physical prints, or you can "self-fulfill" the order, which can be anything (your own prints, digital images, you-name-it). EM emails you the list of what the customer ordered, and you do complete the order -- either upload full-size images to EM (for them to do the prints), or self-fulfill it however it appropriate.
Originally posted by LadyK:
she is paying me the package price (either $150 or $200 depending on the package she choses) |
Personally, the $150-200 you mentioned is my minimum rate per hour for an event (and I usually specify a 2 hour minimum), which includes my shooting time and the web gallery they may order prints from. Any prints or digital media beyond that is extra.
Originally posted by LadyK:
ok peeps, how much would you sell a high res disk of 103 photos to a parent. |
To restate a rule of thumb I picked up from our very own Mr. [user]Prof_Fate[/user], I charge the same price as my 8x10 print for full-size digital images. So, 103 images == 8x10 print price times 103. Obviously, this depends on what you charge for an 8x10. Personally, my price varies per event-type (I try to keep my community theatre shoots more affordable, for example, than my professional theatre shoots), but I'd say a good starting place is looking at what your local pro lab charges for an 8x10 and pad your processing-time+profit on top of that.
From some of your other comments, it sounds like you feel like your hands are a little tied based on your original/standing agreement you've made with your client. So, the obvious question is -- was this agreement made in writing?
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07/01/2009 04:52:56 PM · #21 |
I like what spirspat said-- word of mouth referrals and your reputation is a big deal. Bigger than the financial sacrifice of 103 images on CD if it was an honest misunderstanding on her part. Sounds like your email was a good start to resolving the issue.
You could also offer her images that would work for scrapbooking only (4x5" @ 200dpi) but would be of little benefit elsewhere. Technically high res, right? :) good luck! Either way, she still needs to buy a package, right?
If I didn't do any detailed retouching, I would burn a CD with 103 images and supply for around $200.00. I would explain that the images on the DVD are not retouched(stray hairs, etc,) like a print. LR makes this a snap. If they want high level retouching, then add $$$
Message edited by author 2009-07-01 16:55:02. |
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07/01/2009 04:56:38 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
I like what spirspat said-- word of mouth referrals and your reputation is a big deal. Bigger than the financial sacrifice of 103 images on CD if it was an honest misunderstanding on her part. Sounds like your email was a good start to resolving the issue.
You could also offer her images that would work for scrapbooking only (4x5" @ 200dpi) but would be of little benefit elsewhere. Technically high res, right? :) good luck! Either way, she still needs to buy a package, right?
If I didn't do any detailed retouching, I would burn a CD with 103 images and supply for around $200.00. I would explain that the images on the DVD are not retouched(stray hairs, etc,) like a print. LR makes this a snap. If they want high level retouching, then add $$$ |
creepy, thats the exact price i came up with:) she hasn't emailed me back(scary) but i thinkwe will be able to figure it out now |
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07/01/2009 05:00:28 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
Originally posted by mpeters:
I like what spirspat said-- word of mouth referrals and your reputation is a big deal. Bigger than the financial sacrifice of 103 images on CD if it was an honest misunderstanding on her part. Sounds like your email was a good start to resolving the issue.
You could also offer her images that would work for scrapbooking only (4x5" @ 200dpi) but would be of little benefit elsewhere. Technically high res, right? :) good luck! Either way, she still needs to buy a package, right?
If I didn't do any detailed retouching, I would burn a CD with 103 images and supply for around $200.00. I would explain that the images on the DVD are not retouched(stray hairs, etc,) like a print. LR makes this a snap. If they want high level retouching, then add $$$ |
creepy, thats the exact price i came up with:) she hasn't emailed me back(scary) but i thinkwe will be able to figure it out now |
haha, do I know you from somewhere? You could charge a lot more but it seems like a fair $$ given the circumstances. |
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07/01/2009 05:01:39 PM · #24 |
 cdrice
i have very affordable package prices because i am aiming for the most part at seniors in high school. plus, i hardly think i am worth $200 a session. im not even sharing what i charge per session. i do like the 8x10 idea, ill have to calculate it up and see if its around the $200 i was thinking for the disk. and no, the agreement was not in writing, but around these parts a verbal agreememnt or a handshake is worth the same as a contract. plus, like spirspat and mpeters said, if i screw someone over(in other words say the verbal agreement didnt count) im going to have to deal with the backlash of losing other potantional customers via badmouthing by this client |
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07/01/2009 05:58:06 PM · #25 |
A few things...
1. Personally, I think giving discs of images you feel are unprintable is a mistake. They'll print them anyway. Promise. There are photographers who do it but I'd give it a lot of through before you decide to go that route.
2. Do you want people to take you seriously and not consider you a kid? Then you need to develop professional policies and stick to them, regardless of how young you feel. Will you run into some age discrimination? Most likely. But that absolutely won't improve if you give yourself excuses to act like a kid and not like a professional.
Developing policies and procedures is a long process and can involve a lot of trial and error. If you do a lot of studying, even just forum reading, you can learn some of it ahead of time. Some of it you'll learn and do wrong anyway because sometimes you just have to experience it yourself and then kick yourself for doing what you know you shouldn't have. But the more time you put into planning things out ahead of time, the less oh-shit-now-I'm-in-a-corner time you'll have later. It'll be worth it.
3. I don't care where you live, word-of-mouth isn't good enough. Things need to be in writing. Your policies need to be in writing. You need contracts. You can assume I am just not familiar with the area you live in and choose to ignore this but I promise it will be one of the things you kick yourself for later.
4.$200 for 100 full-res images is not going to create a viable business for you. If you're just out to goof around for awhile and make a little cash, then it's fine. But it won't give you a business. If you don't think you're worth $200, you probably aren't ready to be in business or charging at all. If you don't think you're worth it, why should anyone else? If you're trying to build your portfolio or get practice, then set your prices at what they should be and give an introductory 50% - 75% off or something. It'll be easier to explain the 75% price hike later and it will help clients to value your work. In general, people place very little value on the cheap/free. There are exceptions but not often.
Nearly all of this is stuff I've learned by being in business - a lot of it the hard way. I didn't have to deal with the issue of being young, since I'm old as dirt and all, but learning to see yourself as a professional and ACT like one, even when it's hard, is difficult to learn at any age. But it'll pay off. Good luck. :) |
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