Major print / color management problems.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5D

07/01/2009 12:58:49 AM · #1

Warning this will be a long and frustrated post.

A long long time ago in a galaxy far away I had an old monitor and an old printer and an old camera. When I had prints made they turned out splendidly, very close to what I viewed on my monitor screen (an old CRT.)

Purchased a new camera and the prints still turned out wonderfully. Purchased a new monitor and things started going bad. Purchased a new printer and things are really bad.

I cannot sell new prints at the moment because for the life of me I cannot get any digital file to print correctly either here or at any myriad printing labs I have attempted.

The problem: Photos print out usually rather dark, washed out (lose detail), and with an odd orangish tone overall. To give you an idea, it almost appears to be red/orange fill flash done in PS, but it has not been done. Everything looks dreary. All photos look great on my monitor - even all photos on websites such as here and other photo sites.

What I have done: Might be quicker to list what I haven't done except I don't know what that would be! I have forked over the bucks and calibrated my monitor even though I suspected that wasn't the problem. Used Spyder 2 which also came with a software called "printfx" or something like that. Monitor was fine. It twweaked it a bit, but it didn't change the print problem.

Have now done lots of research into color space, management and profiles and settings. Made sure my camera was set to sRGB (I shoot high jpg), used a couple of different profiles for the printer and monitor but those changes didn't seem to affect anything. Made certain that when I went to print a file in PS, I had PS control color management, turned off color management in the printer settings and selected ICM (I think that's what it is), picked the correct type of paper etc. Nothing seems to change the final result.

I even pulled up an old file which I had printed two years ago on the old home printer. I didn't edit it at all, just opened it. Then I printed it out and IT turned out awful the same way. Same computer as it was originally edited on, just different monitor and printer.

I have taken one of these awful prints and held it up to the monitor (before the monitor was calibrated) and adjusted settings until what I saw on screen appeared as the photo. That just threw everything off and I couldn't even read some text in PS because the settings were so screwy...but it's how the photo looked. I then took an old CRT monitor (not my old one) and hooked it up to my computer, and edited with that - but the results were even worse.

I am at my wits end and just cry thinking about how much money I have spent on photo paper, prints and software trying to fix this problem.

I have sent photo files to several different labs - at least 6 - and they all turn out the same. Something is very screwy.

Help!

Edited to add: I currently use an ACER AL1917 lcd monitor and an Epson R280 printer

Message edited by author 2009-07-01 01:05:48.

kaiser_chief

Nikon D90

07/01/2009 01:11:45 AM · #2

I was about to blame the printer until the last line........

If possible, take a photo, download it from the card straight onto at least two different computers (yours and someone elses that you know isn't screwy). Do the photos look the same. Edit photo on both and save. Send both photos to the lab and see if they print the same. By doing this, you have only 1 common point (ie, the camera) if both turn out wrong, then you can blame the camera, if only your one is wrong, go further. If both are right, thrrow hands up in the air and say 'I give-up'.....

If one good-one bad
Print both files on your printer (don't edit the file from the other puter though).....do they look the same. Print from a viewing only program so it cannot alter settings? Did the photos look the same on the screen as well?

By having the different files, you can troubleshoot better, as you can try and test each element seperately.
Plug printer into a different computer and see if there is still a problem (is it the printer)........

Good Luck....No majic fix from me

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

07/01/2009 01:13:40 AM · #3

Red/orange colour cast usually means double profiling.

Are you managing the colour through PS and turning ICM off in the print driver?
Do you have the correct printer profile chosen for the paper/ink you are using?
Is the correct paper chosen in the print driver?

MattO

Nikon D4

07/01/2009 01:18:10 AM · #4

I'm going to guess its a color issue with the monitor and also a color management issue with the printer.

When I last changed monitors to my current 22" AOC I started having some issues with color balance and darkness on my prints. I do quit a bit at home on a Canon Pro9000 and IP4300. I finally recalibrated my monitor twice before I finally got that straightened out. I also had to deal with color management and tweak my color outputs with calibration. Its frustrating as all get out. If the spyder you bought is used I'd wonder about it. Couple of things make sure your monitor is on and warmed up at least an hour before calibrating, do it in the light you are going to edit in, make sure your backlight, brightness and contrast are set to factory defaults before calibrating and make sure your profile is being loaded by the program. Also make sure you hook up the spyder and warm it up for a min of 20 minutes, I hook mine to the USB port and hang it in front of the monitor to warm it up. Then run the program and reboot and make sure the new profile loads on startup.

Matt

07/01/2009 01:21:56 AM · #5

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

I have been choosing ICM. Should I not? My other choices in the print driver are "color control" and "photo enhance" I thought most of what I read said to have PS control the color management and to choose ICM?

07/01/2009 01:31:13 AM · #6

Matt,

I followed the instructions to a "T" including the warm up, making sure all other start up calibration or profiles were off, making sure room lighting was perfect etc. I did restart the computer. The spyder was preowned, but not used at all.

07/01/2009 01:35:35 AM · #7

Originally posted by jpochard:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Red/orange colour cast usually means double profiling.

Are you managing the colour through PS and turning ICM off in the print driver?
Do you have the correct printer profile chosen for the paper/ink you are using?
Is the correct paper chosen in the print driver?

I have been choosing ICM. Should I not? My other choices in the print driver are "color control" and "photo enhance" I thought most of what I read said to have PS control the color management and to choose ICM?

If photoshop is controlling the color and you have ICM turned on then you are double profiling, once in PS and once in the print driver. You either have PS control the color or the printer driver, not both.

With PS controlling the colour, select ICM in the print driver and check OFF for color management.

Message edited by author 2009-07-01 01:36:46.

07/01/2009 01:37:28 AM · #8

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by jpochard:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Red/orange colour cast usually means double profiling.

Are you managing the colour through PS and turning ICM off in the print driver?
Do you have the correct printer profile chosen for the paper/ink you are using?
Is the correct paper chosen in the print driver?

I have been choosing ICM. Should I not? My other choices in the print driver are "color control" and "photo enhance" I thought most of what I read said to have PS control the color management and to choose ICM?

If photoshop is controlling the color and you have ICM turned on then you are double profiling, once in PS and once in the print driver. You either have PS control the color or the printer driver, not both.

So which of the three options should I choose? And if that is a problem, why are my prints from other labs also coming out so screwy?

07/01/2009 01:40:14 AM · #9

Oh..I see, yes I have done it both ways - with color management "off" and without selecting that. Both times with ICM checked. Didn't seem to matter.

07/01/2009 02:04:07 AM · #10

Originally posted by jpochard:

Oh..I see, yes I have done it both ways - with color management "off" and without selecting that. Both times with ICM checked. Didn't seem to matter.

Can you post screen shots of the colour management window in PS and the printer driver so we can see the settings? There's probably one parameter somewhere out of whack throwing the whole thing off.

As far as prints from other labs go, what is the embedded profile in your file? What profile does the lab expect/assume to be embedded in the file?

Message edited by author 2009-07-01 02:05:14.

07/01/2009 02:50:18 AM · #11

PS print screen

Printer options screen 1

Printer options on "advanced" tab

As for other labs, I have changed so many settings that I don't know what they have been getting. I do know that until these problems started, I did not change any settings knowingly in PS and had sent out and had printed many good prints in the past using the same PS program and computer but different monitor/printer set up.

I hope you can read these and they might be helpful.

07/01/2009 11:35:53 AM · #12

The only thing that strikes me is that you're using the generic printer profile rather than one specific to the paper. However, if you've been doing it that way all along then that can't be the issue.

Have you checked with the labs to see if they've changed anything in their process?

Can you upload a picture that's causing you grief?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/01/2009 11:55:59 AM · #13

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Well, what confuses me most is this - even if I change any of those printer settings and get a decent print out here at home, that wouldn't effect anything I send to a lab, right? Now, I can't imagine that all these labs are changing things or printing differently all at once the same time. This leads me to believe there is a real problem someplace in the file itself when it is saved or edited.

I appreciate you all taking time to help me think this through and troubleshoot. I'm confident I'll come up with an answer of some sort because I have to. Right now, I cannot sell a print and I have almost $800 in orders waiting to process.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

07/01/2009 12:00:34 PM · #14

The darkness issue may be your angle of viewing if you are using a LCD screen. I think I have this issue somewhat. If you raise your eyes maybe 6 inches higher than they normally are, is the screen brighter? If that's the case you may want to angle your screen a bit "up".

csolomon1

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/01/2009 12:03:07 PM · #15

Well I had some what the same issues, I got it pretty close now, Choose ICM and no color changes in the printer setting, then in photoshop setting select PS manage but change the profile to the printer and the paper selected for print, it gave me the colors i was looking for, other then that they were dark. but thats just IMO

gys

Canon EOS-7D

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

07/01/2009 12:19:16 PM · #16

Have you ever tried letting the printer manage the colours? On my El Cheapo Epson the photo's came out much nicer when I had the printer manage the colours and switched the colour management settings off in PS.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/01/2009 01:03:13 PM · #17

I've tried changing all the print settings and can get some very slight variations. I still get orange hair (instead of blonde), a somewhat washed out and dreary look, and an overall yellowish/redish/orangish tone.

Today I think I'm going to take an older edited shot (from my daughter's wedding) to be printed locally. It's just a saved file, (not edited or anything with my current monitor/printer set up.) I have already (some time ago) printed this file on my old printer and at local labs a number of times with no problem. I just want to make sure I'm not losing my mind (which is not a guarantee at the moment) and that I can still get a decent print from my former files.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

07/01/2009 01:12:56 PM · #18

Did I miss you trying to take that old file and print it on your new setup?

A) If it looks right on your monitor, but prints wrong it's the printer.
B) If it looks wrong on your monitor, but prints right it's the monitor.
C) I suppose it could be both.

07/01/2009 01:38:48 PM · #19

Are any of the nozzles plugged on the printer? Is the print head in need of replacement? You'll get wonky colours if either of these is the case.