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06/26/2009 04:21:29 PM · #26 |
.... I could just neglect to answer the email from Paper 1 for the next four days. They did it to me for eight days. That would change my name from mud to just unreliable.
He did apologize, though.
Message edited by author 2009-06-26 16:22:10.
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06/26/2009 04:28:21 PM · #27 |
| Just tell him apology accepted, but that eight day delay put them behind paper number 2. By not responding they lost their right of first refusal, because that delay was seen as a refusal. Had they been trying to get you to shoot an event, would they have been willing to hold on and hope you would do it for them if you ignored their request for eight days? |
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06/26/2009 04:34:39 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Just tell him apology accepted, but that eight day delay put them behind paper number 2. By not responding they lost their right of first refusal, because that delay was seen as a refusal. Had they been trying to get you to shoot an event, would they have been willing to hold on and hope you would do it for them if you ignored their request for eight days? |
I like it. "You know, I really wanted to work with you, but your silence forced my hand to go to Paper 2. Between you, me, and the lampost, I'd rather it was in your paper, but I am a man of my word."
Now Slippy sounds like the moral bastion rather than, well, Slippy. |
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06/26/2009 04:45:16 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Just tell him apology accepted, but that eight day delay put them behind paper number 2. By not responding they lost their right of first refusal, because that delay was seen as a refusal. Had they been trying to get you to shoot an event, would they have been willing to hold on and hope you would do it for them if you ignored their request for eight days? |
I like it. "You know, I really wanted to work with you, but your silence forced my hand to go to Paper 2. Between you, me, and the lampost, I'd rather it was in your paper, but I am a man of my word."
Now Slippy sounds like the moral bastion rather than, well, Slippy. |
FUCK YEAH ! :-D
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06/26/2009 06:25:34 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Just tell him apology accepted, but that eight day delay put them behind paper number 2. By not responding they lost their right of first refusal, because that delay was seen as a refusal. Had they been trying to get you to shoot an event, would they have been willing to hold on and hope you would do it for them if you ignored their request for eight days? |
I like it. "You know, I really wanted to work with you, but your silence forced my hand to go to Paper 2. Between you, me, and the lampost, I'd rather it was in your paper, but I am a man of my word."
Now Slippy sounds like the moral bastion rather than, well, Slippy. |
Think he can pull it off? Maybe, since he's not face to face and trying to hide a smirk. Hey, he can always cut and paste your words :D
(I think Slippy might set Art on me if I keep picking on him :) ) |
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06/26/2009 06:27:07 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Just tell him apology accepted, but that eight day delay put them behind paper number 2. By not responding they lost their right of first refusal, because that delay was seen as a refusal. Had they been trying to get you to shoot an event, would they have been willing to hold on and hope you would do it for them if you ignored their request for eight days? |
I like it. "You know, I really wanted to work with you, but your silence forced my hand to go to Paper 2. Between you, me, and the lampost, I'd rather it was in your paper, but I am a man of my word."
Now Slippy sounds like the moral bastion rather than, well, Slippy. |
Think he can pull it off? Maybe, since he's not face to face and trying to hide a smirk. Hey, he can always cut and paste your words :D
(I think Slippy might set Art on me if I keep picking on him :) ) |
ART !!!
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06/26/2009 06:44:04 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I like it. "You know, I really wanted to work with you, but your silence forced my hand to go to Paper 2. Between you, me, and the lampost, I'd rather it was in your paper, but I am a man of my word."
Now Slippy sounds like the moral bastion rather than, well, Slippy. |
True that.....
And let's face it, in the newspaper industry, at deadline time, eight MINUTES is an eon.
Eight days with *ZER* communication is completely and totally unacceptable.
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06/26/2009 08:59:55 PM · #33 |
boy, turn my back for a moment and miss all the fun :~O
yeah, i'd fire matt, too, if he tried double-dipping with a competitor. and yes, if you are a regular freelancer (ie, shooting lots and getting published on a regular basis), it is not cool to submit the same (or even similar) photos to competiting publicat, ions.
however, slippy is neither staff nor freelancer. he's simply a contributor that has an above average image that has some potential monetary value. sure, he could have handled things a bit better, but hindsight's 20-20. in reality, unless he's dealing with some really jerked out individuals, he hasn't done anything to permanently damage his ability to contribute to either publication in the future.
as to how to handle it, i'd serve up the preferred suggested approach like this:
"Dang, Mr. Editor. I'm in a situation I'm sure you've had to deal with a more than once, but it's a first for me. Let me tell you what happened, then you tell me what we can do about it. When I didn't hear back from you, I really thought you just weren't interested, so I went to the other paper, and now they're all over it, wanting it exclusively. For me, it's not about the money as it was about getting some real visibility for one of those shots of mine. What do we do?"
and he'll either tell you to piss off, or he'll offer some advice that might be useful. if he tells you to piss off, so what? his paper's going under and he'll be out of a job in a year anyway (well, maybe not, but given industry trends, it's a very possible scenario).
one thing i've found is that if you're basically diplomatic, second chances aren't hard to come by. honest, newby mistakes aren't what get you blacklisted; it's the wrong attitude that does.
good luck, slippy, i'm sure it will all work out just fine. |
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06/26/2009 10:13:22 PM · #34 |
Done...
Hi -----,
I feel terrible. I thought you'd lost interest and I didn't want to be presumptuous by sending more prodding emails. Time was closing in on Canada Day and I felt the crunch, so I sent the photos to a small paper a couple of days ago. They are planning on running some of them, and I offered them exclusivity. I would have dearly loved to see my photo on the front page of your paper on Canada Day, but now I've given my word elsewhere. I hope you understand, and this doesn't burn any bridges between us for the future. Hopefully I can make it up someday.
Cheers,
Slippy
Message edited by author 2009-06-26 22:14:19.
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06/27/2009 12:17:27 AM · #35 |
Skip as usual great advice from someone with way more experience in the field then myself. I kneel to your greatness. :p
And dang you are way to ready to fire me.
Slippy great response to the editor for a tough decision and situation to be in. Please let us know how he handles it.
Matt |
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06/27/2009 12:49:02 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Skip as usual great advice from someone with way more experience in the field then myself. I kneel to your greatness. :p |
thassa coffee-sprayer...
Originally posted by MattO:
And dang you are way to ready to fire me. |
only, and only, if you were going behind my back for another measely $35-50...because if I was your editor and the shot was that good, i'd be helping you license it to the ap ;-) |
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06/27/2009 08:26:56 AM · #37 |
Bah... a message came back from his iPhone, and simple read, "too bad".
That's it.
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06/27/2009 10:50:16 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Bah... a message came back from his iPhone, and simple read, "too bad".
That's it. |
Slippy, that speaks VOLUMES about his professionalism. Methinks you may be better off. . . |
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06/27/2009 11:04:40 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Skip:
and he'll either tell you to piss off, or he'll offer some advice that might be useful. if he tells you to piss off, so what? his paper's going under and he'll be out of a job in a year anyway (well, maybe not, but given industry trends, it's a very possible scenario). |
Originally posted by slippy:
Bah... a message came back from his iPhone, and simple read, "too bad". |
well, let's just sit back and see what his situation is next year ;-) |
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06/27/2009 11:09:45 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Bah... a message came back from his iPhone, and simple read, "too bad".
That's it. |
Slippy, that speaks VOLUMES about his professionalism. Methinks you may be better off. . . |
Unfortunately in my search to finding a paper to work with that is pretty much the norm. Which is why I early on posted about how they might react. I was fortunate to find a Sports editor who was willing to give me a chance and not be an ass, but I ran across many who just felt anyone and everyone could provide what they needed and if it didn't benefit them first and foremost you were dead to them.
Matt
Edit to add I may be a bit jaded from my experience three years ago, so take that into consideration with my thoughts. :p
Oddly enough one of the editors who gave me such a hard time has contacted me a couple of times in the past year asking if I was willing to work with them. Sometimes you burn the bridge, sometimes they do, and its not always a bad thing. :D
Message edited by author 2009-06-27 11:15:44. |
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06/27/2009 11:48:05 AM · #41 |
Out of curiosity, I found some circulation statistics.
Paper 1 has the biggest circulation in Canada for 2008, about 335,000 per day.
Paper 2 is actually better than I thought, about 95,000 per day. Also, this is the more popular paper where I live.
I didn't know this, but both papers are owned by the same group. I don't know what effect that has on the price of beans, but it was a surprise to me.
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06/27/2009 12:16:25 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I didn't know this, but both papers are owned by the same group. I don't know what effect that has on the price of beans, but it was a surprise to me. |
another thing to keep in mind for the future. sometimes, they'll compete, sometimes they'll share. sometimes, you can get more by allowing them to share.
and ditto, matt, about the norm :( |
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06/27/2009 01:11:24 PM · #43 |
well sounds to me as though you are better off without paper 1. They dont sound very proffessional at all, with making you wait and no answers and then teh 'too bad' answer.
Sometimes smaller is better
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06/27/2009 02:03:45 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Bah... a message came back from his iPhone, and simple read, "too bad".
That's it. |
Mannnnnnn... I was wondering & wondering and came home from breakfast & a car show and jumped on to find THAT was his ONLY response... boooooooo.. I was hoping he would apologize profusely to you and offer you another huge gig to make up for it.. oh well.. :-( |
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06/30/2009 11:11:21 AM · #45 |
Front page, above the fold, four of five columns.
:-)
There's a Canada Quiz linked from the Online Version, here...
Message edited by author 2009-06-30 11:13:22.
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06/30/2009 11:16:39 AM · #46 |
| Congrats on getting published. Nice big pic. |
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06/30/2009 11:29:35 AM · #47 |
| Screw the photo! I need to know more about those newlyweds! |
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06/30/2009 11:31:40 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Screw the photo! I need to know more about those newlyweds! |
Cliffhanger! :-O
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06/30/2009 11:32:05 AM · #49 |
| omg slippy, your alias name in the newspaper is horrible! ;) |
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06/30/2009 11:33:52 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by Mephisto:
omg slippy, your alias name in the newspaper is horrible! ;) |
I know, but my first choice was taken! ;-P
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