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06/26/2009 02:54:36 PM · #1 |
Now I'm in a small photo dilemma.
Some of you know the start of this. To sum up:
I shot some Canadian patriotic water drop photos.
I sent them to a BIG newspaper, maybe the biggest in Canada. There was interest, and some back & forth. But then my emails went unanswered. I thought I was put on ignore, so I gave up on Paper 1.
I sent them to Paper 2, still big, but not as big. Told them they'd have an exclusive. There is a lot of interest. They may run the entire series, I don't know yet.
Just now I get an email from Paper 1, saying they've mocked up one of my shots for page one on Canada Day! However, with news being what it is, no promises that it will end up there.
Money has been offered by both papers. It is not an issue with me.
What's to do? I feel like an ass.
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My first instinct is to cc them both and explain what I just did above.
Message edited by author 2009-06-26 14:57:39.
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06/26/2009 02:57:57 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I feel like an ass. |
And it wasn't even on purpose!
This really is a dilemma. I think I agree with your first thought. Be honest, then leave the ball in their hands. Just go to both of them and explain what happened, then see what they offer or suggest.
If you are upfront about your honest misunderstanding, they will probably be more flexible than if you try and play them.
Message edited by author 2009-06-26 15:00:46. |
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06/26/2009 03:00:20 PM · #3 |
Wow.... Slippy has morals!! Who woulda ever guessed??!! ;)
Sorry, no suggestions, just couldn't resist :D |
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06/26/2009 03:01:10 PM · #4 |
| Split the difference? LOL! Heck of a problem. I'd say paper 1 since they were offered there first. Or, you could just let paper two know that it (sorry) couldn't be exclusive. You didn't make that same statement to paper 1, right? |
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06/26/2009 03:02:31 PM · #5 |
| Congratulations on even finding yourself in this tough spot. I'm a vindictive sort so the unanswered e-mails would have bothered me, how long you were ignored might indicate their real level of interest. Was it a day or a week? |
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06/26/2009 03:02:44 PM · #6 |
Well to be honest with you, you really put yourself in a bad place with the second publication. You offered them Exclusive, which you know couldn't be possible. You need to explain to both papers the situation, but in reality you have already killed your reputation with paper 2, knowingly offering them exclusive when if fact it wasn't ever going to be as Paper 1 already has the offer. I currently could be fired from my Contract job with the paper for doing this, I am never to submit something to them that I have or will submit somewhere else. Honesty is the best issue, Man up to your mistake and see where the chips fall.
Matt |
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06/26/2009 03:03:12 PM · #7 |
I don't want them to think I'm looking for a bidding war. I don't think Paper 2 would stand a chance anyway. I don't care about the money at all. I just want to see my shot, or shots, get some huge views.
I don't trust Paper 1 to follow through as much as Paper 2, a feeling I get.
Play it safe? Or go big/bust?
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06/26/2009 03:03:38 PM · #8 |
| couldnt you explain the situation and then tell them they could both use it but the photos just wouldnt be exclusive? |
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06/26/2009 03:04:36 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
...You didn't make that same statement to paper 1, right? |
That's right. :-/
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06/26/2009 03:06:56 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Congratulations on even finding yourself in this tough spot. I'm a vindictive sort so the unanswered e-mails would have bothered me, how long you were ignored might indicate their real level of interest. Was it a day or a week? |
8 days.... With Canada Day on July 1, I felt I had to move, or be lost.
Message edited by author 2009-06-26 15:07:20.
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06/26/2009 03:08:04 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Congratulations on even finding yourself in this tough spot. I'm a vindictive sort so the unanswered e-mails would have bothered me, how long you were ignored might indicate their real level of interest. Was it a day or a week? |
8 days.... With Canada Day on July 1, I felt I had to move, or be lost. |
tell them just that |
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06/26/2009 03:10:17 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Well to be honest with you, you really put yourself in a bad place with the second publication. You offered them Exclusive, which you know couldn't be possible. You need to explain to both papers the situation, but in reality you have already killed your reputation with paper 2, knowingly offering them exclusive when if fact it wasn't ever going to be as Paper 1 already has the offer. I currently could be fired from my Contract job with the paper for doing this, I am never to submit something to them that I have or will submit somewhere else. Honesty is the best issue, Man up to your mistake and see where the chips fall.
Matt |
Paper 1 had cut off communication with me for 8 days. I thought the offer was dead, and with Canada Day fast approaching I felt I had to move on. Paper 1 was effectively fillibustering me by leaving me hanging.
Did I have a choice?
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06/26/2009 03:12:11 PM · #13 |
| Then tell paper 1 you got a better offer and be done with it. |
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06/26/2009 03:13:22 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by MattO:
Well to be honest with you, you really put yourself in a bad place with the second publication. You offered them Exclusive, which you know couldn't be possible. You need to explain to both papers the situation, but in reality you have already killed your reputation with paper 2, knowingly offering them exclusive when if fact it wasn't ever going to be as Paper 1 already has the offer. I currently could be fired from my Contract job with the paper for doing this, I am never to submit something to them that I have or will submit somewhere else. Honesty is the best issue, Man up to your mistake and see where the chips fall.
Matt |
Paper 1 had cut off communication with me for 8 days. I thought the offer was dead, and with Canada Day fast approaching I felt I had to move on. Paper 1 was effectively fillibustering me by leaving me hanging.
Did I have a choice? |
Yes a phone call and letting them know the situation that if they didn't make a deal you were going elsewhere. Papers and editors are really odd ducks when it comes to running the same thing/non exclusive stuff. At least in my area they are. If you have made the offer to paper 1 and decided they weren't going to use it you should have notified them that you were taking it elsewhere, and also been upfront with paper 2 that you had previously offered it to paper 1 and things didn't work out/it wasn't going to be used, not that they have an exclusive. Just a poor decision on your part IMHO.
Matt |
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06/26/2009 03:14:40 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Then tell paper 1 you got a better offer and be done with it. |
I'm thinking that would be the 'right' thing to do. It feels like a real kick in the nuts, though, missing out on a chance at the front page of such a big paper.
*crying*
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06/26/2009 03:16:11 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by MattO:
Well to be honest with you, you really put yourself in a bad place with the second publication. You offered them Exclusive, which you know couldn't be possible. You need to explain to both papers the situation, but in reality you have already killed your reputation with paper 2, knowingly offering them exclusive when if fact it wasn't ever going to be as Paper 1 already has the offer. I currently could be fired from my Contract job with the paper for doing this, I am never to submit something to them that I have or will submit somewhere else. Honesty is the best issue, Man up to your mistake and see where the chips fall.
Matt |
Paper 1 had cut off communication with me for 8 days. I thought the offer was dead, and with Canada Day fast approaching I felt I had to move on. Paper 1 was effectively fillibustering me by leaving me hanging.
Did I have a choice? |
Yes a phone call and letting them know the situation that if they didn't make a deal you were going elsewhere. Papers and editors are really odd ducks when it comes to running the same thing/non exclusive stuff. At least in my area they are. If you have made the offer to paper 1 and decided they weren't going to use it you should have notified them that you were taking it elsewhere, and also been upfront with paper 2 that you had previously offered it to paper 1 and things didn't work out/it wasn't going to be used, not that they have an exclusive. Just a poor decision on your part IMHO.
Matt |
Yes, I should've done that. :-( But it's in the past now.
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06/26/2009 03:28:14 PM · #17 |
| Well, congrats on being caught up in such a tough situation. I only hope that I have to make big decisions concerning my photography some day... So really, congrats! :) |
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06/26/2009 03:35:06 PM · #18 |
My name will be mud at the big paper. Oh well, photography sucks anyway. :-(
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06/26/2009 03:35:43 PM · #19 |
Screw morals and go big time. You worked hard on it and you obviously would prefer it to be in Paper 1. Making you wait 8 days sucks, but it's page 1 in Canada Day!!!!!! You can't ruin that just to be nice to paper no. 2.
That's just my lousy opinion. If they don't pull through then you can just blame me. |
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06/26/2009 03:40:38 PM · #20 |
| are you *sure* it will be front page? or will it be a itty bitty run somewhere buried in the 3 section? |
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06/26/2009 03:45:44 PM · #21 |
| IMO, he offered them to paper #1, he never retracted that offer so he should go with them, explaining to #2. Hopefully they will run front page but if not he'll at least know next time to recind the offer before taking his shots elsewhere. :) |
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06/26/2009 03:50:50 PM · #22 |
I think both options are still open to you if you haven't signed anything. There's no moral imperative here unless there was some sort of verbal or written agreement. To take the paper 1 scenario to the absurd limit, would Slippy be morally obligated to allow them to print if they decided they wanted to do it on Canada Day 2010? I don't think so. So what's the time limit? Business is business and 8 days is a long time.
Anyway, just make your decision and be up front about it. Weigh the benefits and potential drawbacks and be done with it. Paper #1 isn't even promising to print it so why is there some obligation on Slippy's part to let them?
Message edited by author 2009-06-26 15:51:33. |
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06/26/2009 03:56:57 PM · #23 |
some times you feel like an ass. some times you are don't. ;-)
Congrats and good luck. I don't think it matters much which paper when you are later discredited during your upcoming trial and subsequent imprisonment. :P |
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06/26/2009 03:57:16 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think both options are still open to you if you haven't signed anything. There's no moral imperative here unless there was some sort of verbal or written agreement. To take the paper 1 scenario to the absurd limit, would Slippy be morally obligated to allow them to print if they decided they wanted to do it on Canada Day 2010? I don't think so. So what's the time limit? Business is business and 8 days is a long time.
Anyway, just make your decision and be up front about it. Weigh the benefits and potential drawbacks and be done with it. Paper #1 isn't even promising to print it so why is there some obligation on Slippy's part to let them? |
Doc here is the way I see it, yes he has both options open(even pitting them against each other for bidding war if he wanted to) however how much is it worth seeing it run if you cut your ties with both papers by alienating himself with his actions before he even has those ties secured? If he never worries about running another photo or possibly even building a some sort of working relationship with either he needs to make amends with paper 2 and be open and honest about what has happened with both.
Again if we are talking morals and not just flat out money and fame.
Matt |
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06/26/2009 04:02:05 PM · #25 |
| I agree with you Matt and counted that in the "benefits and potential drawbacks" for his decision. I guess I just don't agree with the word "morals" because this isn't about right and wrong but rather "what's ultimately best for Slippy and not the paper". |
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