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06/02/2009 08:30:38 AM · #1 |
Hi all,
I'm new to DPChallenge, in fact I submitted my very first photo to the 'I Quit' challenge. Most of the comments i've received have said that it doesn't depict quitting yet when I took the photo the idea of quitting was very obvious in the situation and conversation. I feel I may have been marked down by people's different interpretations of the scene, but that's ok...i'm not really doing it to get a good score....yet :-).
It made me wonder how I should be voting. Like any form of art, it's very subjective..is Mona Lisa smiling or frowning? :-). Should I be marking down if I feel the shot doesn't depict the challenge topic, even if I really like it? Or should I be voting purely on the quality of the photo and assuming the challenge topic was intended (even if I don't interpret it that way)?
Really enjoying it btw, and looking forward to the next challenge votes tomorrow.
cheers :-),
Bill.
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06/02/2009 08:41:38 AM · #2 |
Take a quick peek here for a little bit of guidance. Doesn't answer all of your questions, but it's a start.
Voting Rules |
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06/02/2009 08:53:48 AM · #3 |
My opinion is that you should vote how you want, based on what you want, just be consistent about it.
If you feel it's super important that an image meets the challenge, then vote based on that. If you don't care so much that it meets challenge but demand excellent technicals, then vote based on that. The only important thing is that how you judge images is consistent.
Personally a lot of my vote is decided on just how much an image appeals to me, then after that I give or take a few points based on relevance to challenge (or more than a few if it has nothing to do with it). I hate the demand for technical perfection and I love 'defects' like lens flare and blown out areas when I feel the add something, so I don't tend to go looking for reasons to mark an image down, but then, if you feel those things are important, vote based on that!
Hope that helps, it's really up to you what you give an image and why you do it, though people really love to know why, so comments are always welcome! |
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06/02/2009 09:17:56 AM · #4 |
It's a personal thing. One person's 9 is another person's 2. Everybody has differing criteria. One member I know gives a default, "of no consequence" vote of 3 to most images, unless they really grab him in some way.
Here's the general scale I use. Your mileage may vary.
1-totally sucks, blurry grainy, unidentifieable. I've only rarely given a 1, and it was clearly an intentional effort to come in last place.
2- brown ribbon for sure. Grainy, blurry, lots of artifacts, shadows and blown highlights. lousy snapshot
3- The average snapshot someone takes if they don't know anything about photography. Or an entry from  Whiterook (He's awesome, BTW. Has quite a fan base here.)
4- basic exposure and composition is good and shows effort and some knowledge. A decent effort, but lacking somehow compared to other DPC stuff.
5- A good shot, but nothing that stands out over the rest. No shame in getting a 5. Something that averages in the high 5's will probably get wowed over elsewhere.
6- Something stands out to me about this one. Really liking it.
7- Really good stuff.
8- Getting into "WOW" territory. 50% chance I will fave this.
9- How to you do it? Do you have a life outside photography?
10- I am in awe.
Other factors:
-If I feel the entry does not meet the challenge topic (a.k.a. a "shoehorn" entry) I will rate it on the quality of the shot, but then deduct 1-3 points depending on how far off base I think it is. If I am the only one that feels that way, then my slightly lower vote won't hurt it much.
-Sometimes an extra point for an outstandingly creative idea, but an average shot.
-I often give a lower vote for visible compression artifacts that could have been easily avoided. If there are visible artifacts and a small file size, I will ding you. I have often low voted high scoring images for this when everyone else wows over it. If I ding you on this, I will leave a comment about it, so that you know why it got that low vote from me.
-Although personal taste is part of the process, I try to rate on the quality of the photo. If I don't personally care for it, but still think it is good work, I won't low vote it.
Due to the compression of opinions, I feel the final averages are a little different:
<3 Pretty bad snapshot, extremely out of the box, or an intentional effort at last place (Known as a "Brown Ribbon", or "Brownie")
4-4.5 Pretty poor, or extremely misunderstood and under appreciated.
4.5-5.0 a good effort that shows some knowledge, but still lacking in some way.
5.0-5.5 A decent effort that just did not blow people over. No shame in a 5
5.5-6.0 A good shot that appealed to the majority of people, or had very strong appeal for a smaller group. Despite people moaning about scores in this range, it is doing well and is usually a mid-pack or higher placement in most challenges.
6.0-6.5 A really good shot with broad appeal.
6.5+ Killer shot, this getting into ribbon territory.
Of course, this all is just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
Message edited by author 2009-06-02 09:18:51. |
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06/02/2009 09:35:09 AM · #5 |
If you instantly know what a picture's about, don't spend time on it. Just click 5 and move on. Spend time on pictures that suprise or confuse you.
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06/02/2009 02:55:45 PM · #6 |
| i think yo-spliff put it close to how i judge and score on pictures. each picture will have a different effect on each individual so just try to find what criteria is important in what you feel is a good or bad shot. but like others have said, vote consistently with your own personal criteria |
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06/02/2009 04:22:38 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
If you instantly know what a picture's about, don't spend time on it. Just click 5 and move on. Spend time on pictures that suprise or confuse you. |
Most others will give a low vote to the shot that makes you think. If it does not hit them over the head with it's relevance, then it gets a low vote. Posthumous and Ubique are a bit different in their criteria, and appealing to one or both of them is a win in my book.
One thing I have learned from them: I will sometimes be ready to give a 5 to a shot, but if I have to stop and seriously consider what it is worth, that often means it deserves better for making me think about it. |
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06/02/2009 04:57:18 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
If you instantly know what a picture's about, don't spend time on it. Just click 5 and move on. Spend time on pictures that suprise or confuse you. |
Along the same lines as this... your grading scale depends on a very important question: Is the score based upon what the photo means to you, or in regard to what you think the photographer was aiming to accomplish? All challenges propose something for the photographer to depict (FS excluded), so are you grading their result in terms of how well they achieved this or are you grading them in terms of what meaning you personally ascribed to it? For me, the second approach applies to FS or to a challenge titled "Does this mean something to you?" and I grade accordingly.
Really, my answer to your post is to not worry so much about what the votes are but to consider the comments more carefully. Votes are always quick and bear little value. Comments usually give you at least a little tidbit which you can use to structure your approach later, if you decide you want to. Just because somebody says they'd like it more this other way, doesn't mean YOU want to guide your style in that direction, but it is still information you can use. I think my entry is successful if I get one person that really likes it, because I am sharing a vision with somebody. Now, it may not be my exact vision or interpretation of things when I captured them, but it is still a vision shared, just interpreted differently. The connection and realization of vision found in photography are what I really enjoy. |
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06/02/2009 07:48:05 PM · #9 |
In the 2 months I have been here, I have come to several conclusions:
1) Don't try to win. It will drive you crazy.
2) Don't worry about scores. Judge your photos on your merits and read scores/comments with a grain of salt.
3) Most people don't seem to appreciate creativity. If it doesn't meet their criteria, they will mark it low.
4) Enter every challenge. It will make you think and keep you shooting. You will learn new techniques.
5) Ask 20 people and you will receive 20 differnt responces.
6) Post a responce and at least one person will disagree.
--Rick |
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06/02/2009 07:50:53 PM · #10 |
Richard, I dissagree with #6!
Originally posted by rrdjserv:
In the 2 months I have been here, I have come to several conclusions:
1) Don't try to win. It will drive you crazy.
2) Don't worry about scores. Judge your photos on your merits and read scores/comments with a grain of salt.
3) Most people don't seem to appreciate creativity. If it doesn't meet their criteria, they will mark it low.
4) Enter every challenge. It will make you think and keep you shooting. You will learn new techniques.
5) Ask 20 people and you will receive 20 differnt responces.
6) Post a responce and at least one person will disagree.
--Rick |
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06/02/2009 09:38:52 PM · #11 |
Richard, I dissagree with #6!
Good one!!!! :-) |
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06/02/2009 09:49:31 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by rrdjserv:
Richard, I dissagree with #6!
Good one!!!! :-) |
Whoa, for a second there, I thought you were disagreeing with yourself, and I thought you were going crazy ;) |
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06/03/2009 04:43:47 AM · #13 |
Well, I was beaten by what looks like a Still Life entry which was submitted to the wrong challenge in error. I guess that answers my question, lol.
16th place in the end though, very happy.....although I think the low turn out helped.
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06/03/2009 04:57:38 AM · #14 |
| BTW Yo_Spiff, I like your suggested rating system. I'll give it a try. Thanks for sharing. --Rick |
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06/03/2009 05:09:54 AM · #15 |
i'm new in dpc too;p
it's really hard to submit against these great photographers;/
but practise makes perfect:) |
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06/03/2009 05:41:38 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Bill666:
Well, I was beaten by what looks like a Still Life entry which was submitted to the wrong challenge in error. I guess that answers my question, lol.
16th place in the end though, very happy.....although I think the low turn out helped. |
16th and a top 25% or so finish is excellent! |
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06/03/2009 05:59:42 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
16th and a top 25% or so finish is excellent! |
True! I don't know if there ever was such a good ranking with so many DNMC comments. A clear display of talent :) |
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06/03/2009 06:04:31 AM · #18 |
> it's really hard to submit against these great photographers;/
Yeah, some of the winning photos are stunning. I think it's good that the quality is so high, it gives us something to aim for :-).
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06/03/2009 06:56:25 AM · #19 |
This post has nothing to do with this thread, would you please click on my profile Highnooner I need to check if the flag counter is working.
BIG THANKS
Tareq
Message edited by author 2009-06-03 07:04:20. |
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06/03/2009 07:38:51 AM · #20 |
Just shoot what works for you and makes you happy....for that reason I am pretty sure I will never ribbon, except for the occasional brown! :-) If you shoot just to please the dpc crowd, you may have a pretty long road ahead of you.
If, however, what you shoot also tickles the fancy of the dpc majority, then you may well ribbon.
I was very honoured when [user]Ameed El-Ghoul[/user] ribboned recently in Furniture II, and publicly thanked me on the thread. All I did was say to him exactly what I've just said above.
Good luck!
PS a quick note on comments you get...I learned a long time ago that if at least 50% of the comments say the same basic thing about your shot, ie 'oof' (out-of-focus) or 'blurry', they're probably right! |
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06/03/2009 07:55:02 AM · #21 |
I found that subtle rarely works on a challenge. While I didn't vote on your entry, IMO it shows perseverance more than quitting. That being said, I think it's a spectacular shot. And MistyMucky was exactly right--that is a very good score when there are so many DMNC comments. Usually DMNC shots end up much lower.
How I vote:
I do mark down for DNMC, because people work so hard to get a shot that fits the challenge, it doesn't seem quite fair to have shoehorned entries win. However, I give a lot of leeway. If I'm not sure if it fits, I give it the benefit of the doubt. If it blatantly doesn't fit, they lose 1 maybe 2 points max. |
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06/03/2009 09:24:33 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
If you instantly know what a picture's about, don't spend time on it. Just click 5 and move on. |
I failed to disagree with this statement on my first pass. It depends on your reason for participating here. If you are seeking out unique and different things, by all means, take Posthumous advice to heart. No sense in wasting your time on the stuff that doesn't matter. However, if you are here because you want to improve your own photography, then spend extra time on those images you vote a 4 or 5 on. Leave a comment explaining why you gave it a mediocre vote. By making yourself figure out what it is you do and don't like about these entries, you will learn some things that you can apply to your own photography. On top of that, you will gain the gratitude of the people who are wondering why their masterpiece is bombing, when everybody else is just clicking the 5 and moving on. |
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