Canon Speedlites + PocketWizards

05/10/2009 01:46:19 PM · #1

I'm strongly considering investing in a set of Canon Speedlites and the new model PocketWizards. For starters, I'd be adding a second 430EX to the one I already have, with plans to add another 430EX and a 580EX II in the near-ish future. For the PWs, planning on the Mini Tx unit, and then a FlexTT5 T/Rx unit for each flash.

However, first I need to know that they'll really do what I need them to - I think they will, but I'm having a hard time finding documentation that explicitly says it. I want the ability to have, for example, two different "groups" of Speedlites; my key light at one setting, and my BG lights at, say, a stop less output. Now, I know that with the 580EX mounted to the Mini on-camera, I can set all the Speedlites in M mode and do this. But can I do it without the 580EX, and in TTL mode?

Right now I'm using old Nikon SB-25s and modified Cactus slaves. My current kit works very well and was cheap, but it also forces me to run around and change all the settings on each flash by hand each time I need to make an adjustment, which is a bit of a PITA, especially on a shoot. If I'm going to drop big bucks on new Speedlites & PWs, I want to know that I can make the changes I need from the camera and transmit them via the PWs to the Speedlites.

Can anyone comment on this?

Message edited by author 2009-05-10 16:47:39.

05/10/2009 03:18:30 PM · #2

Yeah... I would google on the limited range of the new ones with the 580's and old 430 flash.... IMO it's pathetic for a company to release something like that. The issue is the RF interference put out by the 580's and the old 430 (I believe the new 430 is fine). I am not sure if they have all the features orking wither... th latest firmware might - I know adjusting flash power was high on the wish list but have not been keeping up with them much..

If I was after radio eTTL then I would hit RadioPopper's instead.

05/10/2009 04:07:48 PM · #3

I'm open to RadioPoppers as well, if they'll do the job better. If anyone has experience with them, I'd love to hear about it!

05/10/2009 04:48:26 PM · #4

Downloaded the PW manual (who'd have thunk it?) and it answers my above questions - you can only get groups with different lighting ratios if you use the PW transmitter with a 580EX or Commander unit mounted. Rather silly, IMO, since this means you're either buying another expensive flash that can't be used to light anything, or buying an IR commander unit with no intention of using its primary feature.

So really, the PWs sound like they're not really going to do what I want, and there are reports that they don't yet work correctly. Perhaps RadioPoppers really are better?

Edited to add: Reading more of the manual, it pretty much says that ALL Canon flashes except maybe the 430EX II emit so much interference that they may not work without adding a Canon off-camera sync cord to each setup. Sounds to me like the whole damn system doesn't work! Like it was rushed into production and they figure that maybe they can "fix it" as they go. Good grief, and these things are the industry standard...

Message edited by author 2009-05-10 16:53:30.

05/10/2009 05:06:28 PM · #5

Nah the old ones are the std... which is why I think they have made such a mistake with the new ones.

RP's will need a master on the camera as well.... that's just a sucky canon thing - RP's are just flip from optical to radio and back on the other side - which is why IMO they are a better choice... PW's are sitting in between rather then a dumb pass it on.

Both allow some higher sync speed as they play with the start of the signal and I THINK the last firmware for the new PW's also got some more power out of the canon strobes (if they are in the sweet spot so they can communicate).

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

05/10/2009 05:42:50 PM · #6

Well if I'm going to need a ST-E2 Tx anyway, it seems to make more sense just to buy it and some Canon Speedlites and work with them for a while. Then, if I find that I need extra range, I'll think about the RPs - although $250 each makes them rather an expensive accessory, although I suppose that range and reliability may be worth it.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/10/2009 06:15:47 PM · #7

The Radiopopper Site has a video comparing their product to the new PW's using canon flash... think it was the 580 EXII but can't swear to it. The video/review was done by a third party and displays how much the interference... well... interferes with the new PW system. The video is entirely too long, btw, so get ready to do some jumping. There are also CyberSyncs to consider. A few folks on here like them as well, though no ETTL if that's what you're looking for.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

05/10/2009 06:19:25 PM · #8

Originally posted by OdysseyF22:

The ST-E2 is a joke. Really, its line of site and pretty useless for anything outdoor, indoor can be a crapshoot even sitting beside it! I've owned two and got so frustrated using them I finally said screw it. I've bought AB Cybersyncs and 580EXII's as well as one older SB-28. Everything is manual yes, but I want control over what I shoot. ETTL can and does get fooled easily.

Matt

pineapple

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

05/10/2009 06:54:19 PM · #9

Planet Neil has some interesting items on flash/PW etc, including this one. Or use a hot video light...

Message edited by author 2009-05-10 19:06:02.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/10/2009 06:58:53 PM · #10

I agree with

MattO

If you are really looking to control multiple strobes, and want flexibility too, line of site IR control will limit you--especially outdoors. I can use the nikon CLS system, which I do think is great, to remotely control my SB800 and SB600, dial them to different settings all from my D90--but the line of site limitation means you can't reliably put the 600 directly behind a model to light the background, or other positions that may not receive the commands. I also attempted to use this system for off-camera flash work outdoors, and it failed to fire around 50% of the time in the particular lighting conditions.

So, even though I already had the direct control capability built into my camera and strobes, I still got the Alien Bees Cybersyncs for myself (I have access to them and have used them extensively at a nearby studio--never a mis-fire, indoors or out). I use them to fire my nikon strobes remotely now.

From the accounts I have read, the Nikon CLS system is better than the Canon version, so radio trigger will definitely be the way to go. You lose the ttl feature, but this is actually a good thing. With manual control, you can adjust the lighting not only by changing settings on the flash, but also by simply moving it--ttl will cancel out most if not all of the effect of moving the lights.

So I recommend the Alien Bees cybersyncs--I can't compare them to anything else, but I can say that they are reliable, less expensive than PWs, and the customer service at Paul Buff/Alien Bees is EXCELLENT.

05/10/2009 07:23:18 PM · #11

Originally posted by chromeydome:

So I recommend the Alien Bees cybersyncs--I can't compare them to anything else, but I can say that they are reliable, less expensive than PWs, and the customer service at Paul Buff/Alien Bees is EXCELLENT.

Yeah but this part of the OP's text....
Right now I'm using old Nikon SB-25s and modified Cactus slaves. My current kit works very well and was cheap, but it also forces me to run around and change all the settings on each flash by hand each time I need to make an adjustment, which is a bit of a PITA, especially on a shoot.

Cybers (and I love mine) are identical in base functionality (far more reliable) to the flee bay things (unless you get into PCB lights and the still fictional commander).

Also - forgeting the STE2 thing... 580's as master are white light communication so are better then most people think.

Message edited by author 2009-05-10 19:25:21.

05/10/2009 09:03:24 PM · #12

Thanks all for your thoughts on this.

Right now I have 4 Nikon flashes and a modified Cactus system, like I mentioned before. Yeah its the eBay radio slaves, but the mods I did really rock - I have great range and total dependability out of them, no mis-fires, missed fires, etc. But it's all manual mode, which means that on a shoot I have to run around to each strobe anytime I want to change something. (I know I can adjust aperture to alter the light as well, but often I have a specific aperture I want.)

I figured that if I'm going to go with RPs, I'll need the ST-E2 anyway to make the whole setup work, so I might as well try using just it and the flashes before I spend an extra $1000 on the RPs. Maybe it'll work for my needs, maybe not. If it does, then I'll have saved enough for a new lens :-) And if the ST-E2 has a bad rep, hopefully I can get one cheap!

I'll look at the CyberSyncs, although they sound like what I already have.

@

robs, your comment about using a 580EX as a master may be true, but it sorta' kills me to think of using a $350 strobe on-camera just to control the others. It may work great, but it seems like horrible overkill.

05/10/2009 09:17:57 PM · #13

Yeah it is overkill and I wish canon had a better solution.... Hit google but 2 things you might want to think about... I am VERY iffy on these so could well be wrong because I just don't use off camera eTTL so take this with a chunk of salt.... I believe the 580 as master has more options on that C channel (I recall that the STE2 can only do A & B). I don't believe the STE2 focus assist covers as many points as the 580 does - I recall something about the full frame bodies been an issue. Good luck....