Balancing ambient light and flash! who can help

05/10/2009 08:32:29 PM · #1

I was out today and my ambient light was at 1/250 at f16. Then I had a 580 exII at full power about 4ft away from my subject and nothing. I was trying to fill in the shadows of the subject. I was cross lighting. Sun at subject left and flash at subject right. I also tired to slave my 430 also to give more light.

I was out at 5pm and no luck. I tried this at approx 2pm in my backyard and I accomplished it, but for some reason I couldn't get it to work later in the day!
Very frustrating!!

Help someone

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

05/10/2009 08:49:45 PM · #2

So when you shoot ambient only it looks exactly like the shot with the flash firing? You have checked that the flash is indeed firing right? :) If that's the case then perhaps it's your triggers are not firing fast enough. Can they sync at 1/250? If I recall the Cactus triggers that I have can only sync at 1/200 or slower (well reliably anyway). Since I gotten my 5DMK2 I've been shooting at 1/160 so I could be wrong about the top end sync speed.

Message edited by author 2009-05-10 20:50:38.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/10/2009 08:57:22 PM · #3

Yea--it sounds like flash sync to me, or misfires on the triggering. What triggering are you using to remotely fire the strobes? I have found the IR based trigger/control are unreliable outside (I think the sensors may be occasionally overwhelmed by ambient or even direct sunlight, and get "saturated". So with different ambient outdoor lighting from 2pm to 5pm, you might have had something change on you.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/10/2009 09:01:42 PM · #4

I did check the firing and they were firing well. I am using Cactus vs2 trigger for the 580exII and slaving the 430. I assumed that I could sync at 250. I also tried 200. I did not try a lower Shutter speed.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

05/10/2009 09:17:23 PM · #5

well, I am fresh out of ideas, then... I'm not familiar with the cactus triggers or the canon strobes, so my generic suggestions are used up, now. Need a canon/cactus user to chime in!!

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

05/10/2009 09:25:09 PM · #6

I found on those cactus triggers I had to be around 1/160 at the fastest!... and slower with non fresh batteries, sometimes only as fast as 1/60. The catch is it appears your syncing cause it's fast but not fast enough.

Give it a go at a far lower speed and creep up to see where your able to sync on your versions (I also found the inconsistent, so it changed sometimes).

05/10/2009 09:36:50 PM · #7

Originally posted by robs:

If thats the case that renders them useless during the day:(

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/10/2009 09:47:36 PM · #8

If you have not done so... throw out the batteries you got with them and replace them... especially the transmitter. That helped but I solved my frustration with them by buying cyber syncs :-)

david_c

Canon EOS-7D

05/10/2009 10:01:09 PM · #9

Also, are those Cactus triggers firing the 580 via the pc port? If so, you've lost the master mode of the 580 to the 430, unless you have an optical slave on the 430, like a Wein Peanut. There's a guy who will rewire the pc port for you, if you want to go that route.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

05/10/2009 10:09:26 PM · #10

I've used those triggers in broad daylight, balancing it with flashes like what you're trying to do. It should work. Definitey swap out the batteries, use a slower sync speed (1/160 definitely works and 1/200 should as well). Also double check the channel setting is correct and wasn't accidently changed.

Message edited by author 2009-05-10 22:11:23.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/10/2009 10:23:48 PM · #11

Originally posted by david_c:

The 580 has the receiver and it is firing the 430. The 430 has nothing on it just its own sensor? It is firing no problem. I did notice, however (maybe not related) that the M flashes on th 430 when I set it on Manual. Is that normal? Regardless the flashes were firing. I am wondering are they powerful enough at f16 in daylight?

david_c

Canon EOS-7D

05/10/2009 10:45:17 PM · #12

Originally posted by LVicari:

I am wondering are they powerful enough at f16 in daylight?

Yes, I would say so...don't know if you'd overpower the sun, though.

Tez

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

05/10/2009 10:54:51 PM · #13

I was on f/16, 1/200, ISO 125 with a Vivitar 285HV into a silver umbrella at full power in broad daylight for a recent model shoot outdoors in midday sun. Worked fine. I use cactus stuff too.

It may a misfiring thing though as I doubt the quality control of Cactus is all that. You can pick up CR2 batteries on ebay for spare change if you need them.

MattO

Nikon D4

05/10/2009 11:17:45 PM · #14

I don't think you can over power the sun at F16 with one or even two 580EXII's through an umbrella at full power. I shot yesterday at F4, ISO 200, 1/320th and 1/2 power through a brolly box and I was keeping it about 5-6 foot away from my subjects to get good fill with the sun at their back.

Matt

Here is a sample

Even @ F5.6 I would have to either bump the ISO or lose the correct amount of fill. I did eventually move them into the shad and was able to turn it down a bit.

Message edited by author 2009-05-10 23:22:22.

Tez

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

05/11/2009 01:37:48 AM · #15

its not about overpowering the sun, its about providing sufficient fill light to remove shadows and using the sun as main light and your own lights as fill.

To overpower the sun you'll probably want to be at super fast shutter speeds, big aperture and sync your flashes to 1/4000 or something similar. I saw a shot by a wedding photog where there was a flash under the dress and he shot at 1/8000 to remove all ambient light.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/11/2009 11:52:31 PM · #16

Yes I figured it out. My cactus will only sync at 1/160 or slower. That was my problem. Those new PW's that let you sync up to 1/8000 is crazy. Next on my list.

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

05/12/2009 12:12:49 AM · #17

As I always do, suggest Strobist. You should check out the Blancing Flash 101, Blancing Flash 101, and Using Gels.

I need to break out my gels more often.

Edit: Oops, should've read more. Seems like you know what you're doing. Need more power? What about reflectors to help fill the shadows?

Message edited by author 2009-05-12 00:24:47.

yanko