D90 or D300??? - DPChallenge Forums

04/12/2009 10:22:54 AM · #1

I am gearing up to put a full court press on my wife & budget.

I feel that I have hit the wall to a certain extent with my 6.1MP and 1600 ISDO max D70s.

I want to be able to print larger and I want better image quality at higher ISOs.

Not to even get into how piss-poor my 2" screen is on my D70s....

I hear that the D90 is supposed to have the same sensor and display as the 300, without a bunch of the extras.....for markedly less, but I also understand that it's smaller and lighter than my current D70s brick which to me is NOT a plus.

I am also a klutz (Read HARD on equipment_) and likely to have to live for at least three years with whatever I buy.

I'd really like some feedback from anyone who may have played with both and/or who has experienced the size thing.

I have BIG hands.

photodude

04/12/2009 01:49:51 PM · #2

Never too late to go Canon. Come back from the dark side.

Ozzie

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED VR

04/12/2009 01:56:40 PM · #3

I'm in the same boat as you are, debating between the D90 or D300. I am leaning more towards the D90. I had the use of a D300 for a day a while ago, I found it was fairly heavy, even with the flash and winder attached.

Guaranteed there were some minor differences, I felt the D90 would be best for me. I guess it all depends on what you really need from each camera.

Loved the larger size screen and the colours.

Let us know which you pick! When I can afford a tradeup, I'll be selling my D70.

04/12/2009 02:08:28 PM · #4

Originally posted by heatherd:

Well.....I heard that the D90 is smaller than the D70/D70s, and that's NOT a plus for me, and I really do want a robust camera.

Truth be told, I'm also inherently suspicious of the video thing.

I don't want it at all, and it just seems to me that the money they spent on that would have been better served elsewhere.

If I want a freakin' video camera, I'll buy one.....and I DON'T!!!

I really want the D300....but money may bne a problem....

Ozzie

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED VR

04/12/2009 02:11:10 PM · #5

I understand re the video capability, that doesn't grab me either. It seems to me that it's only good if you have it set on a tripod or stationary object, and record a non moving object, before you get excellent results. The cost is another factor as well.

04/12/2009 03:48:59 PM · #6

Jeb,

I have tried both. And although I am a beginning amateur, I want to share my experiences hoping they help.

Lets keep video apart for a sec, since you said you dont need it anyways.

Now,

[1] Sensor: D90 and D300 are 'said' to have the same sensor. But I dont think that has been officially approved. Reasons? D300 has a 14 bit AD RAW conversion, D90 only 12 bits. Also, if you look at professional sensor test data at dxomark for the two, the test results are different enough to suggest they are not the same. In fact D90 looks like a colorized (metaphorically speaking) improvement to D300 sensor for the consumer market from those results.

[2] Body weight/feel: D300 is definitely a tank if D90 is a hummer. D300 also feels very very solid and heavy in hands. In fact I tried D300 with the 18-200 Nikkor VR lens, they were too heavy for me together on my neck.. but thats just me. I traded a used lens recently with a D300 owner in the area, he had a D300. And he was putting it up for sale on Craigslist since he already had a tougher D700 and he thought D90 would be a faithful backup. Even he didnt care much about the video. D90, although made of commercial grade hardened plastic, feels much better than the consumer grade Canon Rebels (yes I have owned them before to compare). Of course its build wont match D300's.. but it isnt as badly built as you would think. It is smaller/lighter though.. and if a bigger grip is what you need, D300 should be your choice. For me, D90 fits like a glove in my palms. Go try it out, you will know what I mean.

[3] Price: I need not say anything here. You know that you can get a D90 body + a decent lens for the price of a D300 body alone.

[4] Controls: D300 is built more for manual and program mode photogs. Dont expect to pick it up and start shooting quickly if you have always used consumer grade SLRs. There are no auto scene modes (landscape/portrait etc.). Thats good, right? But a transition from D70 to D300 may not be as quick as you would think. Not a bad thing though.. cuz you would enter the realm of pro grade cameras then:-) But just so you know: it took two camera staff and I 20 minutes to figure out how to switch to live view mode in a D300... 2 of us were using consumer grade DSLRs, and 1 was oldie film shooter.

[5] LiveView: Dont know if you will use it or whether you need it or not, but I use D90's liveview on tripod at least for macro like shots. Even during a recent zoo trip, I was using it to fine tune the focus.. hand held.. it does help. Anyways, you must know that D300's liveview is more accurate than D90's at live view zooms.. D90 seems to interpolate from lower resolution live feed images, causing jaggy and blurry edges if you zoom in to 6.7X in live view. D300 gives you accurately interpolated edges as you would see with your naked eye. Further, D300 provides the quick AF mode during liveview.. the one that flips the mirror up to use traditional AF method. D90 only provides one live view focus mode: contrast based..which is slower.. but still useful for stationary shots.

[6] Now I will talk about the video. Granted you dont need it. And you should not buy a DSLR for its video features. But if it is there as a bonus, it does come handy. Its not pro-grade (well D90 isnt a pro grade camera anyways, right?). So I would say dont discount this feature without using it. I used to think it is a waste.. until I found the opportunity to grab some minute long precious moments of my nephew that I could no way have captured in stills. In one such shoot, I could capture his adorable attempt to explain how his ball rolled over to the adjacent lake.. and all those gestures and his eye movements and the changing smiles were almost impossible to catch just in still images. Here is an average clip example that I liked in addition to the other still shots since it took me back to the wild scene because of the sounds and the shallow DoF test in the end. There are many more on my profile page here on DPC... though not great, were great fun to do.

So in the end, if you dont care about the video, are ok with spending almost $400 extra, and definitely need a tank like built body, get the D300. Its a solid performer so I have heard, though lagging just a bit in low light results from D90.

Else, you can get the D90, with the bonus of almost $400 saved for another lens, and an amateurish video clip feature, with which I guarantee total DoF testing awesomeness:-)

Good luck, and bring the baby home soon!

Message edited by author 2009-04-12 19:05:51.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

04/12/2009 04:10:03 PM · #7

Lots of improvements in the d90 vs my d80, and you know most of those by reading the specs, I am sure. One nice little surprise I found: when using the selector dial to go from full manual (which is what I mostly use) to full auto (sometimes very handy) there is the normal "green" auto setting, but one more click and you have an Auto with No Flash setting! This is GREAT. If you are hurrying you don't want to have to go into a menu to turn the flash off, and if you see a street/candid opportunity, you dial to that and presto--ready to go.

Adding the battery grip makes the camera the right size for my hands, gives me a good vertical hold position, and adds exactly the right amount of weight for my taste.

One other little thing I really like: "info button" on the back pops up a display that is more informative than the on-top lcd, and easier to read (I have old eyes!)

I didn't consider the d300, so no direct comparison info for you from me. My intent was to upgrade from the d80 to the better sensor, ISO, etc. of the D90 while also upgrading to some FF compatible lenses that I can use right away--while saving up for the d700 later on.

04/12/2009 06:38:54 PM · #8

Thanks a ton, guys! I really would like to have the D300.....I'm just not really sure I need it, and if money was no object, I'd think about the D700.

Oddly, though.....I really like my 18-200 (Which is my ONLY lens.) SOOOOO much that I don't really want a full frame sensor. (That ought to make the "real" camera guys twitch!)

As far as the price differential goes, if I can have a much better camera with the D90 than my D70s, it almost seems foolish to go the extra money.

I have yet to go do the "feel" test, 'cause I'm afraid that I'll HAVE to touch the D300, and I'm afraid that it's going to feel just like my D70s and then I'll have to save more money. I need to find some way to just try the D90.

I really do want the D300 'cause I figure I won't want to upgrade as badly in another three years. (SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE!!!!....8>)....Nudge, nudge, wink, wink!....)

Prash, you say there are no auto modes on the D300????

I shoot most of the time in aperture priority with auto WB & ISO....won't the D300 do that?

I like to experiment with various functions, but as I drag my camera with me everywhere, I have found that setup to be very handy for the fast snap just because I happen to have it along.

I'm going to assume you can set the D90 up like that.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR

04/12/2009 07:01:16 PM · #9

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Prash, you say there are no auto modes on the D300????

I shoot most of the time in aperture priority with auto WB & ISO....won't the D300 do that?

Jeb,

What I meant is that D300 misses the classic Landscape/Portrait scene modes. Of course it is customizable and programmable as we use the Av/Tv/P modes in D90. So you still have P (Programmed Auto), S (Shutter Priority), A (Aperture Priority) or M (Manual). Like all pro and semi-pro Nikons, the D300 doesn't offer any scene modes.

Then of course, there are rumors flying around (that I dont believe in) that D400 is coming out soon.. IFF that happens, D300 will most probably drop in prices.

RulerZigzag

Nikon D750

04/12/2009 07:11:41 PM · #10

The D300 is the successor to my D200 and is probably very similar to it so Ill give you an opinion. Some friends and relatives of mine own the D60 and like the D90, it has very user friendly features especially all the different auto modes. Landscape, nightshot mode, etc. which is not present in my D200 and definitely not the D300. Changing between these settings is time consuming too, but better for beginners for sure.

If your going to buy the D300 remember it might take some time to get to know your camera. It doesn't have those self explanatory little things and its going to be alot heavier than the D90 of course. I know the D200 is a tank, built like a vault and you might have to buy a different strap with more cushioning because its pretty gaughty and not fun lugging it around when walking with it for hours at a time. However, the control and allowment for quick adjustments and settings on the fly between exposures is unmatched. The button setup on the D300 is similar to its successor and if you take your photos manually the D300 will make it a breeze to change and adapt to your enviornment between exposures.

JimiRose

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

04/12/2009 07:26:04 PM · #11

I recently got a D90 and it's really a great camera, if you're looking for a camera that's well featured and doesn't weigh a ton look no further.

04/12/2009 08:26:29 PM · #12

I know this is weird in these days of lightness and miniaturization, but I *LIKE* my big, heavy D70s and the 18-200 VR lens. I don't carry it around my neck, never have, as it fits so well in my hand that I carry it hanging off the end of my arm....

It's the perfect weight and balance that it hangs like this from the lower three fingers of my hand, the index finger wraps up for the shutter button, and the thumb wraps around the back to steady it when I'm moving or shooting.

I really do take it everywhere with me.....to work, to the store just when I'm going for milk, when I go out to dinner, to church.....and the comfort and the way it fits my hand is perfect.

There's actually a groove worn into the body around the front where it rests. It's just so perfectly balanced that I'm fully expecting to NOT be able to find another body that'll feel as comfortable as this one, but I really want the better camera as I feel like I cannot get the image quality that I really want from this under the demands I'm starting to make on it.

I know I could send it back and get it freshened up for half of what a D90 costs, but then I'll still be at 6MP and 1600 ISO max.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the D300 is just going to be closer to the fit that I'm hoping to find than the D90.

Does anyone know how the D70s, D90, and D300 compare size-wise?

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Nikon

04/12/2009 08:48:18 PM · #13

I don't hang the d90 w/grip around my neck, either: I use this handstrap which has a built in tripod mount plate, and when I want the option to have a free hand, I use the Blackrapid RS-4 strap to sling the camera to basically the same position it would be with the handstrap and hand at my side.

I also have the 18-200 VR--great walkaround be-ready for anything sorta lens. The VR chews a bit more battery power, and I didn't realize how much until I spent a day in a studio with a non-VR lens on, and hardly drained my batteries at all. So the battery grip option is good and makes the d90 (and d80) fit my hand well. When I got my d90, it immediately felt small to me as I had been using a battery grip on my d80 for so long. I got a grip on my d90, problem solved. I don't know the dimensions, but I suspect a d90 with battery grip might actually be a bit larger than a d70.

quick google:

d70 140 x 111 x 78 mm Weight: 21 oz. ( 600 g) stripped with no battery

D90 (w/o grip) 132 x 103 x 77 mm Weight: 25.2 oz (713 g)

Grip: Product Dimensions: 7.6 x 5.7 x 3.8 cm ; 513 g

D300 Dimensions are about 5.8 x 4.5 x 2.9 inches, with a shooting weight (body, battery and memory card) of about 2 pounds. The trick setup for the D300 is to add the MB-D10 multi-power battery pack. This accessory bumps the D300's dimensions and weight to 5.8 x 6 x 2.9 inches and 2 pounds, 12 ounces, respectively.

cryan

Nikon D700

04/12/2009 08:58:33 PM · #14

Alright Jeb, I've known you for a little while and kinda know what you like to shoot. So with the knowledge that I have about you, I would suggest the D300, and here's why. I too love a heavy camera. When I bought the D70 I loved it until I got my hands on the D200. Even without the grip they are totally different in weight and feel but the 200 just felt better. I have the 700 now and it doesn't fit me, it becomes an extention of me. I think that when you feel the 300 you will know right away. The other reason is your photography. I know that you are a fine photographer, with this being said I think that the 300 will offer you more room with which to explore, experiment and grow. Video is not something you want, so cough up the extra money and get what you know you really want, an instrument to grow into. Oh yeah, I've got the grip on my 700 and 200 and have carried both with the 70-200mm around for hours. I found both to be very balanced.

Message edited by author 2009-04-12 21:00:29.

04/12/2009 09:10:19 PM · #15

Originally posted by chromeydome:

I use this handstrap which has a built in tripod mount plate,

DUDE!!! You're my HERO!!!!

I have *SO* been looking for this thing forever!!!

Thanx!

(Of course, the one for the D70s and the D300 are different! LOL!!!)

Sigma 24-35mm f/2.0 DG HSM A

04/12/2009 09:12:38 PM · #16

Originally posted by cryan:

I think I hate you.....you just cost me extra money.....8>)

I think I know that I really want the D300, so I guess I'll just have to save more pennies and not settle for a D90....and if I'm honest, that's what I'd feel like I was doing were I to go that route.

Thanks all for your feedback. I appreciate it greatly!

dmadden

Canon EOS-40D

04/12/2009 09:22:48 PM · #17

Originally posted by photodude:

Never too late to go Canon. Come back from the dark side.

I second that ;)

04/12/2009 09:28:40 PM · #18

Jeb,

This video shows D700, D300, D90 all sitting next to each other. You can compare the sizes at least. Whats more, you can even see the author comparing a D70 to these three. The D70 is sitting next to the D90, so you can get some idea of the relative size. There is also a part II of this review.

ETA: In part II of this review, you can see D300 and D90 sitting next to each other at 9:50 time stamp.

Message edited by author 2009-04-12 21:32:34.

04/12/2009 09:36:43 PM · #19

Originally posted by dmadden:

Originally posted by photodude:
Never too late to go Canon. Come back from the dark side.

I second that ;)

Aah. There's Agent Smith and Agent Jones luring you back into the Matrix. Beware Jeb! Just run to the Nikon booth and call us as soon as you have done your research!

;-)

Message edited by author 2009-04-12 21:37:43.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

04/12/2009 09:58:21 PM · #20

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by chromeydome:
I use this handstrap which has a built in tripod mount plate,

DUDE!!! You're my HERO!!!!

I have *SO* been looking for this thing forever!!!

Thanx!

(Of course, the one for the D70s and the D300 are different! LOL!!!)

There are two different mount plates--an arca (which I have), and a bogen/manfrotto (I think). I ordered the neoprene versions, which don't slide/swivel on the bottom of the camera. The arca fits my tripod head, but it still has the threaded mount also, so it could be fitted with something else as may be needed :-)

Message edited by author 2009-04-12 21:59:24.

smichener

Nikon D300

04/12/2009 10:22:56 PM · #21

Jeb, I just went through the same thing and finally decided to go from a D80 to the 300 because of the feel. It really has a solid feel. I had noticed in January the price was running about $1250 but I wasn't ready to buy then. By Feb the price was running about $1600. I ended up finding a reconditioned one which brought the price back down to the $1100 range. As someone else had posted, factory reconditions are sure to be solidly tested so you can be assured of no problems- so you might look around for one. I got mine through Cameta.

Also the learning curve from the D80 to the D300 was not a problem and I'd think this would be the same for you. If you're a manual shooter (which I'd guess you are) you'll be grooving in no time. I've still got my D80 and when I handle the two of them the 300 just feels like serious equipment that will last a long time.

jettyimages

Nikon D700