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03/25/2009 09:39:36 PM · #1 |
Am I being as thick as a whale omelette? I have looked through the challenge, and whereas I normally see a couple or at most a handful of images that I consider DNMC, in the language challenge it seems like half the images DNMC.
After the first couple where I read the title first then looked at the image, feeling a little baffled, I then looked at the whole set of images, and without looking at the title, only rated those that I felt conveyed language. I studied some long and hard but just couldn't feel "language" in any form. In all, so far, I have rated 39/117 images that convey language to me. That a whopping 78 images that at the moment I feel DNMC. On the second pass I'll take in the title and see if that stirs some recognition in me...
I see lots of good images that convey an emotion, or an idea, but to me they do not in any way convey the notion of language. I hope it's just not me being dense, and I realise that the photographers probably have a different take on their images meeting the challenge. I also realise that language as a concept is hard to visualise, but isn't that the challenge?
Is it just me? Does anyone else feel that there are a whole raft of images in this one that DNMC?!
Message edited by author 2009-03-25 21:44:35. |
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03/25/2009 09:41:21 PM · #2 |
| Well mine most be because the score sure reflects it :-) |
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03/25/2009 09:43:52 PM · #3 |
There are quite few in the challenge that don't meet the challenge, or have been shoehorned in.
Of course, you do need to look at all the different ways people could go with the Language Title. Some of the photos I feel are different, but still meet the challenge imo.
The ones that DNMC for me (I am voting/commenting) al get told int he comment that i don't think it fits |
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03/25/2009 10:30:48 PM · #4 |
I haven't even peeked at this challenge yet, nor am I in it, so this is just a response from an abstract point of view:
The concept "language" is an extremely complex one. Music is a language, mathematics is a language, there are visual languages (think ASL), tactile languages (think braille), there are conceptual leaps that can be made on the whole concept of "language". I'd expect to see a large number of shots making that leap away from the obvious to the more abstract, and I'd be inclined to rate such leaps highly if they were well-conveyed to the viewer.
At the same time, I expect the voters, as a group, to reward most highly the well-made, very obvious takes on language that everyone can "understand", which from my perspective is too bad, because this is a challenge that is ripe for rewarding the more conceptual photographers among us...
That's my take on it :-)
R.
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03/25/2009 10:31:04 PM · #5 |
| i guess it is kind of a radical idea, but if you work on the assumption that very few entrants will deliberately enter something off-topic, that might indicate that a huge number of photographers interpret and represent "Language" differently than you did. |
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03/25/2009 10:47:00 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by kaiser_chief:
There are quite few in the challenge that don't meet the challenge, or have been shoehorned in.
Of course, you do need to look at all the different ways people could go with the Language Title. Some of the photos I feel are different, but still meet the challenge imo.
The ones that DNMC for me (I am voting/commenting) al get told int he comment that i don't think it fits |
I'm waiting for that commment since I am suckin as usual and only have one comment |
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03/25/2009 11:08:13 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Pikkel:
I'm waiting for that commment since I am suckin as usual and only have one comment |
If and when i get there
I think I have got through about 25% of the images so far.
As I said, there are a number of DNMC, but not as many as the original poster seemed to think though........ |
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03/25/2009 11:14:30 PM · #8 |
ETA: see below, although no photographs were referenced.
Message edited by author 2009-03-25 23:31:52. |
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03/25/2009 11:18:56 PM · #9 |
| Is it just me, or are there an increased number of threads lately discussing entries, or types of entries, that are still being voted on? It may not be against any formal rules, but it seems like bad form to me. |
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03/25/2009 11:19:08 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by karmat:
i guess it is kind of a radical idea, but if you work on the assumption that very few entrants will deliberately enter something off-topic, that might indicate that a huge number of photographers interpret and represent "Language" differently than you did. |
You're singing my song, babe! I wish we could convince everyone of that :-)
R.
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03/25/2009 11:27:52 PM · #11 |
Lol...I got your DNMC comment. I went more the way Bear has described. The score is supporting your comment, it appears. I did mark it helpful, yet in an abstract way I disagree. What I do like about the comment, it was not rude, wasn't a one liner. You gave the image your full opinion and I can live with that.
Originally posted by kaiser_chief:
There are quite few in the challenge that don't meet the challenge, or have been shoehorned in.
Of course, you do need to look at all the different ways people could go with the Language Title. Some of the photos I feel are different, but still meet the challenge imo.
The ones that DNMC for me (I am voting/commenting) al get told int he comment that i don't think it fits |
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03/25/2009 11:30:48 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Is it just me, or are there an increased number of threads lately discussing entries, or types of entries, that are still being voted on? It may not be against any formal rules, but it seems like bad form to me. |
I don't know about increased, but yeah, probably bad form. It is fairly non-specific, and not that much different than what may show up as an aside in the score thread. In hindsight, I'll delete my last post! |
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03/25/2009 11:43:04 PM · #13 |
I thought this one was kind of a difficult one. There's so many ways to convey language but they're all different to different people. My photo works for me because ...
Scoring this challenge needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Message edited by GeneralE - Please don't identify your entry in discussions while voting is active.. |
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03/25/2009 11:58:03 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by irish_princess87:
I thought this one was kind of a difficult one. There's so many ways to convey language but they're all different to different people. My photo works for me because ... |
Now that *is* way to specific. You shouldn't identify your photo in any way. |
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03/26/2009 05:54:40 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Is it just me, or are there an increased number of threads lately discussing entries, or types of entries, that are still being voted on? It may not be against any formal rules, but it seems like bad form to me. |
This whole forum area is for discussing the current challenge isn't it? As long as the images aren't identified, isn't that the point of this forum? |
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03/26/2009 07:17:15 AM · #16 |
Lots of great work and some very thought provoking. Lots of tenouos shoe-horning and title-dependant entries.
Just like most other challenges then..... |
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03/26/2009 07:34:18 AM · #17 |
You could take the opposite view in that it's very difficult not to express some sort of language in everything we do, and so is highly unlikely that any of the photos won't meet the challenge.
I think it just depends on how broadly you define language. |
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03/26/2009 08:39:08 AM · #18 |
Each week I look at the topics to decide which ones will be DNMC-fests and try to stay away from them.
Language, Hope, etc are way too vague to have a contest with voting for winners and losers. On one hand you can judge 50% photos as DNMC -- what does subject "" have to do with Hope or Language. On the other hand you can allow for wider or shoe horned interpretations -- "Hoping for " or the "The Language of " etc and these become more like a free study's with a really broad theme. I just skip submitting and voting these types of challenges to keep my sanity.
Nice, well defined topics like Gas Stations or 100 Years Old are much easier to photograph and vote for. I find you can still be creative and think "outside the box" on these challenges but you can expect less DNMC anguish on submitting and voting.
My two cents. |
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03/26/2009 08:50:24 AM · #19 |
| I think bobnospum undervalues his two cents worth. Certainly I avoid challenges like °Hope° for those reasons, though I might have a closer look at °Language° if I get around to it. But these days I'm not getting around to much in the way of photography, so don't hold your collective breaths. ;-Þ |
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03/26/2009 09:43:28 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by LadyStarstruck:
Originally posted by citymars:
Is it just me, or are there an increased number of threads lately discussing entries, or types of entries, that are still being voted on? It may not be against any formal rules, but it seems like bad form to me. |
This whole forum area is for discussing the current challenge isn't it? As long as the images aren't identified, isn't that the point of this forum? |
I agree with Larry (citymars), it is frequent, but has gone on for a long time. Seems like a soap box to attempt to influence voters on how they view a challenge.
From the OP Originally posted by LadyStarstruck:
... a whopping 78 images that at the moment I feel DNMC ... |
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I used to go back and take a look at what some of the more vocal actually entered in a challenge, after the challenge was over. Interesting sometimes. :-) May have to revisit that practice. |
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03/26/2009 12:28:17 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by LadyStarstruck:
This whole forum area is for discussing the current challenge isn't it? As long as the images aren't identified, isn't that the point of this forum? |
You may be right, though I think "current" begins when the challenge is announced. There's a week to discuss trends and clear-up gray areas before voting begins.
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03/26/2009 01:05:22 PM · #22 |
I think that are many shots that represents feelings and other things, they even comunicate some feeling...but they just don't represent language, which is the main objective.
There are some definition for language that say it is anything that comunicates of represents a feeling.
Everyone should take a look at some definitions before voting. I did that and changed my opinion about some shots.
Message edited by author 2009-03-26 13:21:10. |
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03/26/2009 02:31:26 PM · #23 |
I have taken on board some of the above, and have revisited the voting with an alert morning brain rather than my deadened 2am brain. I also used the titles to give me hints as to what the image was trying to convey, and I "got" a lot more of them.
My DNMC count is now below 20.... and as far as voting DNMC's goes, rather than vote them a 1 or knock some points off as some voters do, I'm electing not to vote at all on those images. I figure that not getting a vote from me is better than getting a low vote because the lack of understanding is mine, and not a failure on the part of the photographer.
As far as anything else goes, I'm still very new to this site, not really had time to take part in challenges myself yet, and still trying to figure out how it all works here. Maybe I'll just steer clear of the forums in future and do my own thing. I was merely asking "was it just me" that wasn't getting it... clearly that seems to be the case.
Message edited by author 2009-03-26 14:32:10. |
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03/26/2009 02:36:12 PM · #24 |
There were a lot of entries that didn't use words.
There were maybe two that I just couldn't stretch my brain around "how" they were language.
But,that's just my opinion. :) |
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03/26/2009 02:48:09 PM · #25 |
| Well, the two (2) comments I've gotten so express total mystification, even given the hint of a rather descriptive title; the score suggests the silent majority agrees. |
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