Photographing Prom - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/13/2009 07:26:58 PM · #1

Hi,
im afraid im after advice on lighting again (and more.) me and my friend are doing the photography for my school prom. now being 17 and not haivng perticulary rich parents we dont have full equipment but hopefully after ill be able to buy some of my own after. so were going to have to rent.
ive found a local store that rents out equipment now we have the cameras and the theory but neither of us know our lights.
RENTAL SITE HERE
Could anyone please advise us on equipment i was thinking of just getting 2X BOWENS ESPRIT 500DX INC.STAND & BROLLY and then maybe softboxes or will umbrellas suffice? and il need backdrop equipment too but do you think this will do? am i missing anything stupid ill need triggers etc too.

We will have a corner seperate from the main event for poeple to come and have their photgraphy taken in a more "proffesional" manner then there point and shoots

Prof_Fate

03/14/2009 08:26:43 AM · #2

you'll need 3 lights - one for main, one for fill or can be used for BG and one for backup. To avoid cross shadows on couples you need to put the main light behind you and up high - 10 feet like. this will put any BG shadows out of camera view and you'll not have to worry about reflections on glasses. Make sure you don't get shadows from their chins or noses though as that wont' look so good. I like a shoot thru umbrella for this, like 60" or so. A softbox or brolly box would work as well.

I usually out the second light on the side of the subject, again, shoot thru to be softer and it gives wraparound light so the BG isn't dark and it's also the fill light for neck/nose shadow bit.

pic one example
and it works if the groups get bigger too
5 people

you can see the big side light is coming from the right - you need the subject close to it but with larger groups you can see it gets a big hot on the one side.

same lighting at a HS reunion reunion 1 Here it was more headshots for their yearbook deal. it's important to watch for shadows BETWEEN the couples so they need to turn toward the side light a bit or one will cast a shadow on the other.

I think I got a bit lucky with the prom shots compared to the reunion shots, lighting wise. same lighting but I had practically no shadow issues with the prom folks, but it's been 2+ years since I did those shots I don't recall the details of what I did that worked so well.

Message edited by author 2009-03-14 08:27:25.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

03/14/2009 09:14:04 AM · #3

nothing much to add, just see if you have the cash to rent the equipment for a weekend BEFORE and see if you can grab a couple of friends to be models or whatever and just practice lots of things. Take notes too.

Hands on experience is invaluable.

Being able to work out the stupid fumbly mistakes with nobody watching and no pressure is so important.

Make sure that the models are reasonably patient/don't have anything better to do. Then put some tunes on, give them a theme to play up for the camera with and punch out a thousand shots or so...

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/14/2009 04:53:10 PM · #4

cheers guys! i think with both of yours is the that funding is the main problem! it would be nice to practice i have to say but i think we may only have the morning or so to play around! and a 3rd light is a wise choice but once again our pricing may prevent us but thanks alot i just needed some advice and knowledge on the subject!

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

03/15/2009 01:17:27 AM · #5

Try your best to spend what is needed rather than what you feel like spending.

I spent 1200 dollars US on equipment for my first wedding shoot for a friend (free).

But what I got out of it could not be measured with dollars.

The same goes for a practice shoot IMHO.

Maybe another choice would be to get all the equipment an extra day in advance and do the practice midweek. You might have class or something, but it would be worth it in the long run to take a single day off of school. If you are renting for 2 days, adding a third shouldn't be too much extra. And rent as early as possible in the day to maximize use experience.

There's nothing worse than doing a whole bunch of pics that are 'almost' good.

03/15/2009 06:59:19 AM · #6

yeah i think ill definetly have to dip into my savings for some lighting to rent some equipment before hand but hopefully i will mkae it back on sales of the photos :)

Prof_Fate

03/15/2009 11:48:28 AM · #7

If you fee doesn't cover the rental of the gear it's called bad business and you will fail at some point.

You need to price things at least like this:
Cost of product (prints, etc) 20%
Cost of labor 30%
overhead 15%
rental stuff - cost plus 10%
taxes 30% of what's left

Soooo...
If you are giving 2 5x7's in a standup frame to each couple, what does that cost you? $2.50?
Labor - 6 hours for 2 people at the prom to shoot, setup, tear down, then 2 more hours to edit/order/etc for one person - 14 man-hours. At least $10/hour, so $140.
Overhead for me can be assigned many many many ways. Total costs for year divided by clients, hours worked, hours in a year, days (worked or in a year), etc, etc. $15 per hour works as one figure. Times 14 hours at least (there is the time to book this, meet on it, ask questions here, fetch and return the rental gear, etc - and there's $10/hour for that time in labor as well).
rental...$100?

So 14 man-hours plus say 5 for fetch, return, book, education, accounting, etc, 19 hours at $25 (includes overhead), $350.
Rental $110.
$460 so far.
Now how many packages are sold (should be part of the prom ticket if you ask me - it's a guarantee that way and you get prepaid so there is less risk on your part). Say 120 couples so that's $300 in product costs.
$760 so far.
$760/120 couples = $6.30 per couple is your cost.
I'd personally figure 2 5x7s in folders to be worth $15 or maybe $20. At $15 for 120 couple that's $1800 with a cost of $760 leaves a profit of $1040 (and depending on your income tax situation, may incur $300 in taxes).

$1040 profit means you could buy lights (interfit stellar 300ws 2 light kit is around $500) and still have a profit. If you do buy lights then you're profit is $540 or so, and so your tax liability may be $170. The $130 you saved in taxes was 'saved' buy investing in your company by buying the lights. So the lights really only cost you $370 (500-130 in taxes saved)

If you shooting all this on 'spec' (speculation that couples will buy stuff) then there is a lot more risk on your part so you should get an even higher return on your $460 inestment!

Message edited by author 2009-03-15 11:53:13.

Olympus 12-45mm f/4.0 Pro

03/15/2009 04:16:58 PM · #8

the fee will cover the gear but as previous posters have previously suggested i should probably really invest some cash in hiring before the date too but i dont mind as i expect my return to cover that and still get a profit!

thank you very much

Prof_Fate i will certainly use this costing as a model!

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

03/15/2009 05:04:06 PM · #9

Not to be the one who rains on your parade, but keep in mind that you're charging people money for these photos - which means you can't be running into this project half-baked. Expensive or not, if you don't have experience working with lights, you need to get your hands on some ahead of time and spend at least a day working with them to learn the subtleties.

In the meantime, start reading the Strobist blog and any other Internet/book sources you can find on how to light people properly. You won't find a lot of info on what settings to use - that's part of what you'll have to figure out yourself before hand. But you will find a lot of info on where to put the lights, how to position them for the best results, standard lighting layouts, etc. All this will help speed up the learning curve, but it is NOT a substitute for actually working with the gear.

Having enthusiasm and the motivation to take on something like this is great - but you owe it to your customers to get it right. If you are fumbling with your gear and end up making images that are only sorta' okay in terms of quality, then you're not delivering what you agreed upon, and your customers are going to be unhappy. That means that in the short term, you'll have to figure out how to deal with complaints, and in the long term you'll lose any chances of further business with those folk.

Before you pin on the term "professional" and take on gigs, be absolutely certain that you can do the job.