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01/04/2004 02:19:22 AM · #1 |
In a move unprecedented in its history, the US government has indicted an entire organization - Greenpeace USA, Inc. (the Greenpeace entity in the US) - for the peaceful protest activities of its supporters.
//www.greenpeace.org/international_en/features/details?item_id=327510
get active
why oh why did we have to get bushwhacked..
Message edited by author 2004-01-04 02:21:40. |
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01/04/2004 02:29:50 AM · #2 |
Thank goodness.... Greenpeace is a bunch of morons... right there with PETA.
Oops, did I say that outloud?
heh
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01/04/2004 02:39:53 AM · #3 |
Yeah the PETA freaks were here in town Friday, protessting outside a local steakhouse, handing out emergency vegetarian kits to people going in.....
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01/04/2004 02:52:05 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by rickhd13:
Yeah the PETA freaks were here in town Friday, protessting outside a local steakhouse, handing out emergency vegetarian kits to people going in..... |
Cool. Going in to eat steaks and you get a free salad.
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01/04/2004 05:01:50 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
In a move unprecedented in its history, the US government has indicted an entire organization - Greenpeace USA, Inc. (the Greenpeace entity in the US) - for the peaceful protest activities of its supporters.
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Good tactics by the usa government, try and fool the people that they care...lol (wont take much to convince them ;-)
Perhaps they can start by protesting against the most dangerous leader/dictator in the world...Mr Bush!
After all usa have only bombed 35 countries since world war 2, and recently have commited murders/atrocities without justification, OOPs sorry there was justification ........OIL!!
Message edited by author 2004-01-04 05:09:28. |
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01/04/2004 05:59:49 AM · #6 |
They are truly lucky that those shipman didn't blow their brains out. COuld have said they thought they were pirates. Why not wait until it docked and then protested/blocked or whatever other annoyance they like to do at the dock, "to raise awareness." Same concept.
By the way, where is the documentation that the shipment was illegal? Just wondering.
Message edited by author 2004-01-04 06:00:06.
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01/04/2004 06:51:29 AM · #7 |
wow. madmordegon, i hope that you aren't seriously supporting the greenpeace people on this one.
I'm glad that they exist - for the sake of checks and balances - but they are so wrong here.
Did you read the horribly biased drivel from their site????
If they came into your house to protest you (insert "offense" here), would you not consider that breaking and entering among other violations?
And they claim civil disobedience? The original meaning of that doesn't include "offensive disobedience", it means that you should not obey any law that is unjust. It does not mean take it into your own hands. That is why disobedience is prefaced by CIVIL.
Why are you blaming bush? This is a common sense prosecution. Not an agenda. There's a line, and greenpeace crossed it. And they know it, whether they admit it or not is another matter.
Dacrazyrn - you are so right. With this highly scary climate of terrorism, you'd have to be crazy to illegaly board a commercial ship.
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01/04/2004 10:31:39 AM · #8 |
Im just curious why that ship let them board. Back when I was in the US Navy we had drills on the ship called "Operation Waterfall", where we would drag out the fire hoses and get ready to hose down any Green Peace people trying to board our ship.
We came very close to having to do it one time on a visit to Canada....the were protesting our ship being there because it was Nuclear powered...little did they know my ship was a diesel powered WWII era aircraft carrier (USS Coral Sea CV-43).
Then I get a kick out of the PETA people who wear leather shoes and belts.....
I know they have good intentions, but sometimes they are not up on the topic they are protesting or prepaired for it very well
James
Message edited by author 2004-01-04 10:32:09. |
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01/04/2004 10:38:18 AM · #9 |
Go president Dumbass, go.
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01/04/2004 11:06:00 AM · #10 |
it must be painful being part of a dying political party...
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01/04/2004 11:12:17 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by achiral:
it must be painful being part of a dying political party... |
Living under a one party system may be as painful but for a greater number of people.
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01/04/2004 12:18:49 PM · #12 |
I think we must remember, when it comes to protesting, that it is not what is being protested that is the issue really. More crucially it is one of the founding principles of america to be able to stand up for what you believe in. Anyone remember the Boston Tea Party? Why the founding fathers left England? The Declaration of Independence talks about Freedoms... I think it is dangerous when the government starts to infringe on these freedoms.
As far as Greenpeace goes specifically, at least someone is working to protect the ever DECREASING and LIMITED resources of world, no wonder we as americans do not like them much being that we are the biggest consumers of these resources.
We as Americans need to realize that we cannot take and consume at infinitum without dire consequence to the world we live in. |
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01/04/2004 12:27:29 PM · #13 |
Charges and what's at stake
- One violation of U.S.C. section 2279, which prohibits persons, "not being duly authorized by law for the purpose," from "[going] on board any vessel about to arrive at the place of her destination, before her actual arrival, and before she has been completely moored".
- And one count of conspiracy, under 18 U.S.C. section 371, to commit this offense.
Hmmm, they broke the law. Now we should protect people that violate the law? In the name of freedom? Now there is a can of flesh eating worms if I've ever seen one. |
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01/04/2004 12:38:17 PM · #14 |
I heard a good quotation on a program on design:
"We express our faith in the technological ingenuity of our offspring by making sure they'll need it [to survive]."
I seem to remember from the '60s that fire hoses are a popular way to sweep away protesters. I guess that's better than just shooting, them as was recently done in Oakland ...
Of more concern to me is the "cone of silence" established around the President -- it is impossible to get within (usually) a mile or two of any appearance site, so meaningful peaceful "assembl(y) for redress of grievances" is made impossible. If non-violent protest is disallowed, the only remaining choices are acquiescence or revolution; the Declaration of Independence stated our national policy on that issue ....
We have clearly left the era of a Government "of the People, by the People, and for the People;" we now have a government completely ownd and run by corporations. Personally, I think that's pretty darned "anti-American." I suggest action by the citizenry before the "one share, one vote" principle is ensconced in law and not just in practice ... |
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01/04/2004 12:42:19 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by deafwolf:
Hmmm, they broke the law. Now we should protect people that violate the law? In the name of freedom? Now there is a can of flesh eating worms if I've ever seen one. |
It was "illegal" for Rosa Parks to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus. Gandhi broke the law quite a few times. As mentioned before, those American shopkeepers tossing cases of tea into Boston Harbor was clearly illegal.
Systematically misleading investors, looting corporate accounts, and bankrupting your employees' pension fund is apparently not illegal.
Interesting what we choose to protect ... |
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01/04/2004 12:42:53 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
We have clearly left the era of a Government "of the People, by the People, and for the People;" we now have a government completely owned and run by corporations.... |
You my friend have hit the nail on the head. |
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01/04/2004 12:46:09 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It was "illegal" for Rosa Parks to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus. Gandhi broke the law quite a few times. As mentioned before, those American shopkeepers tossing cases of tea into Boston Harbor was clearly illegal. |
Very true, but would it be OK for them to enter your house and refuse to leave, all peaceful of course, because you cut down a dying tree? How about your car because it poluted? The has to be some laws and boundaries or it will be a freeforall. But I do agree with your corporate statement in full. |
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01/04/2004 12:57:20 PM · #18 |
The issue of where the to put "the line" in civil disobedience is indeed a fine one. My own opinion is that it should occur in public spaces; invading people's homes smacks of vigilantism more than protest.
However, maritime law has its own whole history and series of quirks. If the "protesters" have reason to believe the ship was in the actual commission of a crime, they might have a duty to attempt to effect a "citizen's arrest," especially if those charged with enforcement of the law were derelict in their duty. |
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01/04/2004 01:03:44 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
However, maritime law has its own whole history and series of quirks. If the "protesters" have reason to believe the ship was in the actual commission of a crime, they might have a duty to attempt to effect a "citizen's arrest," especially if those charged with enforcement of the law were derelict in their duty. |
I agree with that, however the correct way is not to take the law into your own hands breaking another law, but to report the potential offense to be handled by the proper authorities. If everyone took the law into their own hands, "citizen's arrest", then if you neighbor thought you might be doing something wrong, he could enter you home and arrest you. I agree though, fine line indeed. :) It's a wondermus world we live in, who'd of thunk. haha |
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01/04/2004 01:11:45 PM · #20 |
Was it martin luther king who said an unjust law is no law at all?
Protesters who are generally law abiding people, willing to risk much for what they believe have often been imprisioned for their beliefs, some even longer than people who have committed crimes of assualts and robbery ect ect... some how this seems ludicrous...
(well said Gen E BTW) |
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01/04/2004 01:50:32 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Hoogie:
Good tactics by the usa government, try and fool the people that they care...lol (wont take much to convince them ;-)
Perhaps they can start by protesting against the most dangerous leader/dictator in the world...Mr Bush!
After all usa have only bombed 35 countries since world war 2, and recently have commited murders/atrocities without justification, OOPs sorry there was justification ........OIL!! |
ya but ya know.. its been a plan to take over iraq for a long time for its oil. the united states, the most powerfull and wastefull country in the world had to be in control of the #2 oil source in the world. it only seems fitting dosnt it? if saudi arabia ever stops playing ball w/ the US the same will happen to them. and why not? its our american right to be free to drive SUV's and be fat ass wastefull sheep, blindly destroying our world for our children so we can live this rediculous life of luxury.
the world is run by oil. it is the life blood of the american society and most other countrys. without it we CANNOT continue with this way of life, not even close. american government knows this, the Bush administration knows this.
anyone who does not know this and thinks we attacked Iraq to "liberate its people" or whatever other BS Bush fed us part of the problem and will continue to breed ignorence.
please read the real facts and do not listen to the lies Bush has fed us when the presidential elections come around. 4 years of Bush is 4 too many.. 8 and id say we are on the titanic, all of us.
the 1st 100 days of Bush |
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01/04/2004 02:25:44 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It was "illegal" for Rosa Parks to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus. Gandhi broke the law quite a few times. As mentioned before, those American shopkeepers tossing cases of tea into Boston Harbor was clearly illegal. |
I always remember an interesting quote I heard, when thinking of matters like this:
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
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01/04/2004 02:55:31 PM · #23 |
Quite a lively photography discussion I've stumbled onto....
Simply, anyone can do anything, as long as they are prepared to face the consequences of their actions. It is the ignorant who are unknowing of the law and the courageously convicted who face it anyway.
Behaving illegally will at some point...really tick somone off. This could result in your martyrdom, demise, political downfall, heroism, or or "other" consequence. The young are typically the least afraid, while the old have already survived those times.
It is simply choices. Each individual's choices. The wise, will be informed, and choose carefully, being vigilent, to recognize the "false prophets". The consequence or price paid for falling victim to anothers agenda can be extremely high.
Never cease to consider the thoughts and views of those who have lived long.
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01/04/2004 03:46:05 PM · #24 |
It's good to have Greenpeace around...even PETA.
If you and I thought exactly the same one of us would be irrelevent :-D
As far as diminshing resources...you cannot conserve what is limited.
Oil will eventually run out. We all know that.
Whether its next year or 20 years from now, we can't pretend that driving beat up old Honda's (that many pollute as much as a new SUV) will "save" our oil reserves.
Personally, I think the faster we use all the oil the sooner we will have to resort to changes in lifestyle (like eliminating long commutes ....woohoo!!!!!).
Tele-conferences could accomplish half of my travel needs and I could work from home most of the time!
By the way, I'm not sold on the idea that the masses of asses (mob rule) is THAT MUCH BETTER than corporate rule. One look at the people who watch Jerry Springer or go to your typical pro sporting event will convicne you of this! |
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01/04/2004 04:43:26 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
ya but ya know.. its been a plan to take over iraq for a long time for its oil. the united states, the most powerfull and wastefull country in the world had to be in control of the #2 oil source in the world. it only seems fitting dosnt it? if saudi arabia ever stops playing ball w/ the US the same will happen to them. and why not? its our american right to be free to drive SUV's and be fat ass wastefull sheep, blindly destroying our world for our children so we can live this rediculous life of luxury.
the world is run by oil. it is the life blood of the american society and most other countrys. without it we CANNOT continue with this way of life, not even close. american government knows this, the Bush administration knows this.
anyone who does not know this and thinks we attacked Iraq to "liberate its people" or whatever other BS Bush fed us part of the problem and will continue to breed ignorence.
please read the real facts and do not listen to the lies Bush has fed us when the presidential elections come around. 4 years of Bush is 4 too many.. 8 and id say we are on the titanic, all of us.
the 1st 100 days of Bush |
I agree with all you say but it seems that most americans living in luxoury is incorrect ,1 in 6 american children are starving to death due to poverty and 50% of americans live below the poverty line.
And why do the american people accept the atrocities of thier government ....heres a qoute from an american:
Doreen Miller
YellowTimes.org Columnist (United States)
"U.S. leaders patriotically wave the mighty U.S. Constitution before the hypnotized eyes of the American populace, parade its noble and high moral obligations of equality, self-determination and liberty as the very fundament of the American spirit, and tout U.S. foreign policies as the embodiment of these lofty ideals.
The American people are taught from a very young age that the intentions of their government and military are good, just, and honorable. After all, in the words of George W. Bush, we are a generous, "freedom- and peace-loving" nation."
most people use the word "brainwashed" opposed to "hypnotized"
Message edited by author 2004-01-04 16:47:38. |
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