A Matter of Taste or Technique - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

03/09/2009 09:02:18 PM · #1

I seem to be stuck in a rut, my friends. I have now been slogging about in the low 5s for several eternities (it seems) after an initial flurry of high scores. [Interestingly, in spite of the low scoring I have started receiving post-challenge awards (yaaaay

chromeydome and

posthumous)!]

I know scores are not everything, but they do help indicate improvement. I have learned a lot so far, but now feel stumped. Other than trying to be (perhaps overly) clever in my challenge interpretation, I cannot tell why my shots are scoring so poorly. Is it that I have questionable (yet individualistic) taste, or that my photographic skills are not up to par? Is it content? Composition? Processing? Please be honest. If it's just that my choices are quirky, I can live with that. If it's technique, I'd like to know more precisely what needs work. Here are some shots for your consideration.

5.371

5.2137

5.2065

And on a separate note:

This was my entry to Light on White, which asked for a white background with a predominantly light colored foreground. I knew using a dark bra was risky, but the shot IS "predominantly" light colored :-)

So 5.2016, really?

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

03/09/2009 09:07:38 PM · #2

Yes...umm..err...yup. :)

Message edited by author 2009-03-09 21:08:07.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/09/2009 09:19:24 PM · #3

I would say that recognition in Posthumous's thread supports the idea that your images, style, taste may be "quirky" and not "mainstream" dpc. That is not a bad thing, unless you want to be mainstream. I would also say that if you are happy with your images, the scores are not a goal, but just another form of feedback to use how you see fit.

I use the challenges for my own purposes: getting more eyes on my work, hopefully some good critique, and if lucky, the image will connect with someone out there. The challenges give me a goal/deadline without which I might not get as much photography done. Scores are like a game, and fun to watch, but not a driver.

Others take the competition much more seriously, and produce some amazing work for them. Still others take the competition way too seriously, quibbling over the most inconsequential of details, etc.

From my perspective, you are off to a great start here!

ubique

Olympus PEN-F

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

03/09/2009 09:23:13 PM · #4

Johanna,

I voted on all three of the first images you posted (missed white on white). All three of them were in my top picks; Finale and Woven were in my top 10% and Continental Divide in my top 3%.

They're all very fine photographs, but not colorful enough nor intellectually undemanding enough to have universal appeal.

Also it's likely that Finale and Woven both were marked down by the poor dismal souls who demand that you meet their definition of the challenge, rather than your own.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/09/2009 09:37:06 PM · #5

Originally posted by ubique:

Johanna,

Also it's likely that Finale and Woven both were marked down by the poor dismal souls who demand that you meet their definition of the challenge, rather than your own.

AMEN to that. So many threads here arguing over what is and is not meant by the challenge descriptions, what the self-appointed dnmc police will vote down, etc.

Another fundamental, fun-da-mental thing is the diversity of talent, style, taste, genres are represented at dpc, from street to architecture to wedding to portraits to bugs to woodies to portraits to sports to astrophotography.... All are valuable, unique, and fun to see, but hard to compare sometimes in a challenge. Find your niche(s) and have fun. :-)

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/09/2009 09:45:03 PM · #6

Welcome to "Club 5"! It's a popular hangout on DPC.

I voted highly on "continental divide", the others didn't come up for me. I like your photos but I can see why they normally score in the 5-ish zone. I have to agree with the other posters. Nice stuff, but the missing item that you've lacked is the elusive "wow-factor" that results in broad appeal and high averages.

To me, a high five is a sign that you did a really good shot, but it failed to appeal to everybody. Not necessarily a bad thing! Appealing to everyone all the time may mean you are getting better, but it may also mean you are moving away from a personal style.

I've had a handful of those wow shots, but I am not one of the people that can reliably nail it anytime I want. If I quit with the gag shots, maybe I could raise my average more, but I have too much darn fun with them, and sometimes a low scoring shot with some great comments is as good as a ribbon. (I actually treasure my sole brownie.)

03/09/2009 09:51:59 PM · #7

Thank you for the feedback!! As I said, I can live with being creative "outside the lines". And maybe you're right

ubique, and my sensibilities are not for "mass appeal" :-)

But as you pointed out

chromeydome, it is nearly impossible to compare apples and oranges (ooooh, is that another challenge...?), not to mention the incredible spectrum of skills offered here. As a photo hobbyist, I also enjoy the challenges because they make me and my camera stay friends, force me to think and act quickly, and make me look at the world in different ways.

Still, I'd like to improve, but it's hard to do without specific feedback on what needs improving. I suppose that's what all those photography schools are for....

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

03/09/2009 09:56:10 PM · #8

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Hey Yo-Spiff! Any club you belong to is good enough for me. And you are all absolutely right: I have a "personal style". Even if it doesn't appeal to the masses :-)

That said, how would you all describe the "wow" factor? Or is it like pornography - you know it when you see it :-)

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/09/2009 10:01:16 PM · #9

Originally posted by tanguera:

That said, how would you all describe the "wow" factor? Or is it like pornography - you know it when you see it :-)

Pretty much. It is the shot that makes you say "WOW" and ~~everyone~~ most people to reach for the 7,8 or 9.

Much of it is about light. Some of it is about processing. This is why it is an art and not a science.

ErikV

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/09/2009 10:09:41 PM · #10

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by tanguera:
That said, how would you all describe the "wow" factor? Or is it like pornography - you know it when you see it :-)

Pretty much. It is the shot that makes you say "WOW" and ~~everyone~~ most people to reach for the 7,8 or 9.

Much of it is about light. Some of it is about processing. This is why it is an art and not a science.

Sometimes the WOW factor is that you met the challenge head on and in a manner that is way better than anyone else.

ubique

Olympus PEN-F

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

03/09/2009 10:11:40 PM · #11

Heh heh! Yo's right, it's 'most people'. When I see 'WOW' I reach for the 3. If it also 'POPS' then I don't just reach for the 3, I stab at it frantically with both hands.

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

03/09/2009 10:15:32 PM · #12

Originally posted by ubique:

When I see 'WOW' I reach for the 3. If it also 'POPS' then I don't just reach for the 3, I stab at it frantically with both hands.

LOL! You must have one hefty monitor budget!

ErikV, actually I think the secret is "most people" :-)

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

03/09/2009 10:41:00 PM · #13

In my opinion, you're almost there. I liked the finale shot a lot--but it seemed like it could have been more dramatic somehow. Perhaps moving her closer to the interesting lighting in the upper right? The continental divide was absolutely wonderful, but I found the upper right distracting--especially the blob (is it a person? my eyes are not the greatest). It kept drawing my eyes there, but didn't give me anything in return. but the rest was fantastic. the woven was very interesting. I didn't get a chance to see it in a challenge, so I'm not sure what my opinion would have been at the time.

The thing is, with both of the first two photos, it seems like a slight adjustment could have pulled it from a 6 to an 8 or 9. It was like it was just hovering on the brink of spectacular.

As for light on white, I gave it a 6, but wouldn't have given it more because of the dark colors. Normally I give more leeway on challenges, but to me, it is much more difficult photographing a completely light object on a white background. The photos that were very light on white received a higher score because of the difficulty factor.

03/10/2009 02:00:46 AM · #14

Thank you

vawendy for your very kind words! You are right in that sometimes it's just a tweak that makes the difference. I see the progress in my own work, but wrote this thread because I felt that I had gone as far as I could on my own without getting some sort of feedback.

I have learned a lot by studying the shots that I like (which are not always the top placers). I do see common things that make them great, such as lighting, composition, or where and how the eye is drawn. As a result, I also find that my own taste is becoming more discriminating :-)

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/10/2009 02:36:58 AM · #15

Taste.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/10/2009 02:40:47 AM · #16

Originally posted by posthumous:

Taste.

Now you're just being cryptic :-)

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/10/2009 03:11:48 AM · #17

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by posthumous:
Taste.

Now you're just being cryptic :-)

Just answering the original question.

You don't suit DPC taste. But not to worry. There is quite a bit of evidence that DPC's taste does not correlate to what succeeds in the "real world."

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

03/10/2009 03:29:22 AM · #18

or what is worthwhile.

BTW, while the bra shot is iffy in the challenge and the girl on the floor is 'nyeh', This one:

is excellent and I would have given it a 9 or 10. Well balanced in pretty much every way. Very good.

Message edited by author 2009-03-10 03:34:07.