Low votes suggestion - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

02/25/2009 05:36:25 PM · #326

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Originally posted by SaraR:
These complaints about 'troll voting' that have been at the forefront of so much forum activity lately are really beginning to cheese me off. Over the course of the last week I voted on the three challenges currently in voting - and my average votes were 4.6, 4.5 and 5.1; I suspect that subconsciously I must have absorbed the complaints and thought sod this for being told what I should do! It was really quite liberating handing out all those 1s, 2s and 3s - and yes, I genuinely feel each and every one of them deserved a vote of 3 or less.

I find it quite interesting that someone finds it "liberating" to "hand out all of those 1's 2's and 3's". That's like saying, "I quite enjoyed and took delight in saying that your shot sucks in my opinion". Hmmmmm...interesting statement to have made.

NO! That's not the liberating part. Many voters aren't anywhere near as harsh as they feel they ought to be, out of a misplaced sense of empathy. What's *liberating* is to say "Sod that!" and vote exactly the way you feel, damn the consequences.

R.

Exactly!

Sorry Sarah...so, what did I misunderstand here in the comments made between you and Robert, here then? (asking an honest question..not being sarcastic in any way)

citymars

Nikon D700

02/25/2009 05:39:13 PM · #327

At one time I believed voters should acknowledge certain criteria. That even if one hated a photo's subject, one should take into account well done technicals. Or conversely, that if a technically lousy photo contained a germ of creativity, that, too, should be acknowledged. But just because that's the way *I* vote, that doesn't mean others should.

As I pointed out in a couple of other threads, even "The Godfather", deemed by many to be one of the best films ever made, has over 20,000 "1" votes at IMDB.

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

02/25/2009 05:49:16 PM · #328

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Originally posted by SaraR:
These complaints about 'troll voting' that have been at the forefront of so much forum activity lately are really beginning to cheese me off. Over the course of the last week I voted on the three challenges currently in voting - and my average votes were 4.6, 4.5 and 5.1; I suspect that subconsciously I must have absorbed the complaints and thought sod this for being told what I should do! It was really quite liberating handing out all those 1s, 2s and 3s - and yes, I genuinely feel each and every one of them deserved a vote of 3 or less.

I find it quite interesting that someone finds it "liberating" to "hand out all of those 1's 2's and 3's". That's like saying, "I quite enjoyed and took delight in saying that your shot sucks in my opinion". Hmmmmm...interesting statement to have made.

NO! That's not the liberating part. Many voters aren't anywhere near as harsh as they feel they ought to be, out of a misplaced sense of empathy. What's *liberating* is to say "Sod that!" and vote exactly the way you feel, damn the consequences.

R.

Exactly!

Sorry Sarah...so, what did I misunderstand here in the comments made between you and Robert, here then? (asking an honest question..not being sarcastic in any way)

Sara, not Sarah. I think you did misunderstand. I gave a pretty good scattering of 2s and 3s in those challenges, and I gave those marks to photos that for me had no aesthetic or emotional appeal or impact, no artistic value that I could discern, and had serious technical flaws. In no way can what I said be interpreted as saying "if it doesn't tickle me pink...give it a 1".

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

02/25/2009 05:50:04 PM · #329

Originally posted by Melethia:

...I vote on all photos in a challenge, in the order served by the server. I don't cherry pick. I don't vote on technicals alone, nor do I vote on content alone. Yet I am one of "them" (as far as I can discern from the meandering conversations). I appreciate originality. I like to see different takes on a challenge. I've been here long enough to be tired of certain things, but also realize that sometimes it's the "first time" someone has tried one of those certain things (water drops, sunsets, pick your "I've seen a lot of these" categories and insert here) so I try to be fair to those entries. I won't give them a 1, but they probably won't get a 9 either.

I do cherry-pick, not from the thumbs but from each full image. I view all entries but, since I spend a fair amount of time considering, rarely vote on more than 20% to 30%. I'm only interested in interesting images. These, IMO, are the most important entries anyway. They are, after all, the horse that pulls the cart.

I usually comment on my top one, two, three or four choices. Generally, here, many entries are like so many others, some of which may be quite pleasant shots. These, too, I try to leave to those to whom they appeal. I am what appears to be called a "low voter", which means I reserve high votes for outstanding photos. If I awarded 8s, 9s and 10s to to the many, the few would be buried in them, wouldn't they? But I want them to be visible, so we look at them.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/25/2009 05:57:56 PM · #330

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Originally posted by SaraR:
These complaints about 'troll voting' that have been at the forefront of so much forum activity lately are really beginning to cheese me off. Over the course of the last week I voted on the three challenges currently in voting - and my average votes were 4.6, 4.5 and 5.1; I suspect that subconsciously I must have absorbed the complaints and thought sod this for being told what I should do! It was really quite liberating handing out all those 1s, 2s and 3s - and yes, I genuinely feel each and every one of them deserved a vote of 3 or less.

I find it quite interesting that someone finds it "liberating" to "hand out all of those 1's 2's and 3's". That's like saying, "I quite enjoyed and took delight in saying that your shot sucks in my opinion". Hmmmmm...interesting statement to have made.

NO! That's not the liberating part. Many voters aren't anywhere near as harsh as they feel they ought to be, out of a misplaced sense of empathy. What's *liberating* is to say "Sod that!" and vote exactly the way you feel, damn the consequences.

R.

Exactly!

Sorry Sarah...so, what did I misunderstand here in the comments made between you and Robert, here then? (asking an honest question..not being sarcastic in any way)

Sara, not Sarah. I think you did misunderstand. I gave a pretty good scattering of 2s and 3s in those challenges, and I gave those marks to photos that for me had no aesthetic or emotional appeal or impact, no artistic value that I could discern, and had serious technical flaws. In no way can what I said be interpreted as saying "if it doesn't tickle me pink...give it a 1".

Ok, Sara (sorry for the "h" first time around...my best friend is Sarah with an h so, it was automatic).

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

02/25/2009 06:03:02 PM · #331

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Originally posted by SaraR:
Sara, not Sarah.

Ok, Sara (sorry for the "h" first time around...my best friend is Sarah with an h so, it was automatic).

You do not need to quote all the irrelvant parts of any previous conversation -- it makes the thread far less readable, and pushes others' postings off the screen unnecessarily.

02/25/2009 06:14:06 PM · #332

removed

Message edited by author 2009-02-25 18:17:11.

02/25/2009 06:16:00 PM · #333

Note taken on the copy.

Mousie

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

02/25/2009 11:31:00 PM · #334

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

So, this site hasn't always had a huge amount of whiners then? ;)

It always has, and always will... it's on the internet. Like I said, things haven't changed much. Likewise, it will always have people like me who thoroughly enjoy tearing apart absurd arguments for fun and profit.

And I certainly did NOT see this comment as a swipe... I saw it as a sardonic joke. My favorite!

Message edited by author 2009-02-26 00:22:36.

Mousie

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

02/26/2009 12:21:02 AM · #335

Oh man, I was trying not to get too specific about my ire, but jeeze.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

I recognized these things:

2) Since everyone else has their voting patterns, right or wrong in my mind, it doesn't matter....it's how it is so, why not just join that pattern?

How about... because you have the strength of your own convictions? Is it actually impossible for you to vote the way you like, if other people vote a different way? You're totally fixated on the idea that any of us naysayers CARE specifically how you vote.

Also, WHAT pattern? Your assumed patterns on the part of others are just that, assumed. I doubt I've given more than ten 1-2 votes, EVER. I vote 3-8 on technicals, then skew the value up or down a bit based on personal taste. A 10 equals a great technical shot that also speaks to me. A 1 equals a crappy shot that is also insultingly idiotic. From what I've read, the people who you're debating each have their own patterns, and have said as much. OF WHAT MONOLITHIC PATTERN DO YOU SPEAK?

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

3) I majored in art and went with a system that scored artwork according to different criteria than what the system is scoring photography in here. When a piece was reviewed by both professors/peers, it was scored according to a set criteria, and marked/scored according to that criteria. Personal tastes played a smaller role in it than it does here. There were guidelines to go by. That is NOT the case here. Personal taste is apparently, the biggest criteria in here to vote by. So, where others would judge by some set of criteria, this site scores according to personal tastes/group/team tastes.

I too majored in art (with TWO degrees to prove it) and I never 'scored' a damn thing in four years of classes. I was taught that art's worth is subjective... that art is a contract between an author and a viewer which depends entirely on the intent/perspective of each to produce an end result. The idea that art could have a 'score' strikes me as absolutely absurd.

And again, nobody's suggested you should vote based on personal taste. Nobody's even suggested that the MAJORITY does so. They've merely asserted that taste is just as valid a criteria as others.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

So, given all of that, I realize that I have it all wrong and simply have to learn that this isn't and wasn't the way/method that I was "trained" to look at or score art or photography (photography was not one of my majors but, it was part of the cirriculum I had been part of critiquing). You all have made me realize that I have to abandon that criteria in here and simply vote according to the "love it-hate it" type of stance.

Wrong wrong wrong. Vote however you like. Apply your bizarre criteria until the cows come home! It should be patently obvious that the people you're debating DO NOT CARE exactly how you vote, and have in fact ENCOURAGED you to do whatever you like! Also, nobody here has advocated a binary "love it or hate it" voting pattern. That's ALL YOU.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

I've also learned that there is no use in debating things like "cherry picking/thumbnail voting" and going along the proper route of voting either. ie: starting with the first image and working my way through methodically as many as I have time to vote on. It's been made clear that others vote this way and who am I to try to change that fact?

Just like you can't control how others vote on an individual image, you can't control how voters approach voting on a set of images, if they're provided non-linearly. WHY BOTHER? The flaw in your position is your assumption that a 'proper' route exists. It's been made clear that voters vote MANY ways.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

In short, I've conceded that I need to change my criteria whether I have been trained to see it as right or wrong. It's what DPC is that I have to adjust it to. So, in short, I am conceding what you have been fighting for me to concede to. DPC is DPC. DPC voting is according to personal tastes not certain set criteria. It's an "I like it or I don't like it or an it's ok" type of system and vote in whatever manner you like. Forget the random page-fair system crap too! Cherry pick/thumbnail judge/vote. Everyone else does!

I am sorely tempted to call your alma mater and pimp-slap their staff for leaving you with the impressions they apparently have. I'm horrified that an art curriculum could train someone to think that one 'system' applies everywhere... let alone outside the rarified air of an institution of higher learning. Where did you go to school again?

And AGAIN with the assumptions about other people's voting patterns. It is NOT a rigid system of thumbs-up/thumbs-down. It is EVERY PERSON VOTING AS THEY SEE FIT. Howmany times do we need to point this out?

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

So, I've conceded that it's ME that needs to change my mind and my criteria to suit everyone else's idea of things, again, whether I think it's right or wrong. That's the only way to be involved in this place.

No, what needs to change is your futile effort to convince people they should do things your way and your way alone (also, you could cease trashing the very people you hope to be involved with) and KEEP VOTING EXACTLY THE SAME WAY YOU HAVE BEEN. You don't have to change jack. You have to STOP trying to make OTHER people change.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Ok? There. Happy? It's in B&W. I have conceded...you have your reasons why! :)

No, I'm not happy, but I don't let my husband concede incorrectly either. Disengaging while continuing to spout wild inaccuracies is NOT conceding in my book, it's trying to get the last word in by attempting to unilaterally end the debate.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

As for Peter (Mousie) and his comments. I fail to see where he is differing from what all of you have been bantering to say all along.

I'm not, but I fail to see how you could know that, because you apparently have a loose grip on what people have been saying. Let me fix it for you:

"He's essentially saying, shoot and enter what you like, score it the way that you want to score it, according to ~~what you like or don't like~~ your own personal criteria, and ~~grow a thicker skin when it comes to votes~~ don't base your sense of self worth on the opinions of a distributed community, because you'll never get more than 4.5 out of 5 stars. This is not a freakin' curated gallery. This is a casual contest, a context to help kick-start ideas, and a periodic excuse to get out and shoot."

There! That's better.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

02/26/2009 12:38:54 AM · #336

Originally posted by Mousie:

I love it when that masked dude rides to the rescue just as my poor mouth was getting tired :-)

R.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

02/26/2009 12:52:14 AM · #337

Mousie said it all.

... and well too. :D

ubique

Olympus PEN-F

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

02/26/2009 04:34:24 AM · #338

Thank you Mousie. And there the matter rests; quod erat demonstrandum.

02/26/2009 07:25:16 AM · #339

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

In saying "outside of voting that is rule-bending or obviously malicious" that is, in effect, making notice that it is a possibility that it's happening.

What's happening? That people vote differently than you based on a criteria that bothers you? Do they HAVE to vote according to your criteria? Why can't they voyte the way they feel?

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

As for the Troll voting, how does one explain that at rollover, practically every score thread sees the 1's and 2's coming in like dominos going down? One will exclaim that they've been hit by a thrash of 1's and 2's and following, more will note the same thing...one after another? Or, to see at midnight, that someone proclaims to have voted 100% within the first 20 minutes of voting having begun? How closely could those voters have looked over the photos to score them with any real sense of appreciation. It's akin to someone sitting there, saying, "like, don't like, don't like, don't like, don't like, don't like" in one second intervals. How can anyone truly "judge" a photo properly with "like, don't like" and hitting 1's and 2's?

Why do they have to? It's their right and choice, just like it's ours to feel the way we do about it. I don't like getting my image voted down, but it happens. Life goes on. My Tilted entry went down .6 in the last couple hours of voting.....do I like that? No! Do I really care in the big picture? No! Will it affect the way I vote? Only from the standpoint that *I* am more careful about others' feelings and won't vote a bunch of 1s and 2s. Is that actually fair and accurate relative to the merit of an image as to the combination of skill, technicals, meeting the challenge, and artistic style? Absolutely NOT!!!!

Feelings have NO place in the voting, so I chicken out and am not totally honest in the way that I vote because I don't want to offend anyone.

It's more important to me to not ruin anyone's day than to vote in a scrupulously honest manner.

That's also why I have not for the most part voted 100% in most challenges......I will skip over an image rather than vote it down.

I pose this to you......is that fair and reasonable?

But.....do I have the right to vote the way I want?

Look at the way

ubique and

zeuszen vote and comment, and really open your mind to understand why they vote, and comment the way that they do.

They make it incredibly easy to see where you stand by the way that they're discerning and honest.

If your image is dismissed out of hand, you can pretty much assume that it needs work on multiple levels. Do you REALLY need an in-depth critique? If it just doesn't resonate, at all, with people who have a discerning eye, do you need a dissection?

And why are you so much more entitled to this expense of effort than the next person?

It's generally acknowledged that there are not enough people who leave comments. Yet, if you really do your research, that in and of itself is an indicator of the merits of the image. If you don't get 27 comments during the challenge, you do not have an image that is inspired.

My tilted entry just finished with a 6.1224.....and it got 9 comments.

That's not a thrilling reception, and I'd pretty much say that's a squeaker as a 6+.

The one thing that made my day was that someone liked it enough to fav it.

I guess what I'm saying here is that you can continue to rail at not being voted the way you want and make yourself constantly frustrated, or you can learn from the votes and comments, read what they indicate about your work, and use it as a tool.

As soon as you change your thinking and perception to utilize the votes and comments as a learning device, they become YOUR statistics to gauge what you have to do as a photographer.

And guess what......then you get to decide whether you want bright shiny ribbons with spectacular pizazz......or if you want quiet recognition from discerning artists and thinkers who give you silly awards like Posthumous ribbons, the Order of the Thumb, the Bear Paw, and/or Post Luminous awards.

So do you want mass appeal, where you'll bask in the limelight for.....a week, or do you want to really develop into the best you can be?

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

To say that it's fair judging is saying that it doesn't matter what a photog has done to get a shot, they don't like it so, it's a 1!

No it doesn't. Really.

What difference does it make if someone just bangs one out and gets something amazing by a fluke, or if they spend hours setting up and composing something just the way they want and gets a totally uninspiring entry?

Where's the box to check for Herculean effort in spite of a dull image?

Can you honestly say that effort makes a difference?

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

There are Great Masters paintings that I don't necessarily like as my personal tastes but, if were to judge them on a 1 to 10 basis as we do in DPC, I'd not give them a 1 because it's not my personal tastes. I don't necessarily like Picasso's work nor, Andy Warhol for that matter but, I admire their own styles and the artistry that went into it! I may give Monet's work a 9 and Picasso a 7 but, all the same, there is merit in all of their work. The same holds true of every photographer's work in here, unless of course, it was an "in your face" snub with a black box or a total DNMC entry. All photographs in here, deserve a fair chance and evaluation. An "I don't like it...1" vote is infantile and certainly not valuing photography as it should be valued.

Why is that infantile?

Why isn't it valid?

WHY would that bother you in the slightest?

Have you ever gotten a 10?

Is the image that you got a 10 vote REALLY worthy of a 10??????

Have you complained about that? Isn't that just as subjective, and wrong, as a 1.....or actually worse because there's no stigma there......you can justify that to yourself, right?

So NOW who's not being honest?

02/26/2009 07:45:50 AM · #340

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Would you say that a Yanko, or a DeSousa or any of the many time over, ribboner's works truly deserve 1's and 2's??? Honestly? Can you honestly say that their work deserves 1's and 2's and can be justified?

Sure. Why not?

If something that DeSousa puts together offends you on a personal level, is it not honest to vote it such?

Where in the TOS or voting guidelines is that stated?

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

If you can say "yes" then, you are in effect, saying that there's no guidelines to what's good photography and what isn't.

No.....what YOU'RE saying is that In YOUR VIEW there are none.

Not your site, not your call, and not respectful on ANY others' guidelines, OR their right to establish their own system.

Why do you get to be righteously indignant and offended and nobody else does?

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

It's all about "what you like" and that's simply "the reality of it". What is that saying about photographers who are trying to improve their photographic skills then? Why bother? Why not just shoot a shot that is good "eye candy" that people might like and to heck with the technicals, composition and whatever else goes into a good photograph? By defending this line of thinking, it is akin to telling people to forget learning all of this and just go with what people like. In that case, there's no use in learning technicals or anything better.

Why do you have to try and project your meaning onto, and into, others' words.

It's YOUR choice to participate, and at what level.

You don't have to enter a challenge, do you?

You tacitly agree to open yourself up to WHATEVER comes along the instant you hit the Submit button.

You VOLUNTEERED for this.....now you're MAD???????

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

So, if there is anyone who shouldn't "DARE" do anything, perhaps you may want to rethink what your stance truly is and how it is affecting photography in here???

Okay......how is my 5.8788 voting average improving photography?

PLEASE explain that?

Would you like me to explain what I've learned in how to improve my photography by being graced with the time and consideration I've gotten, or not gotten, from

posthumous,

zeuszen, and

ubique?

It speaks volumes to me when I elicit ANY comment from these thre because it means that I at least sparked a reaction.

It means that I'm growing.

My biggest failure, in MY growth curve, would be that I'm no influence whatsoever to these guys.

I am doomed to being a decent photographer.....I'll occasionally crank out a seriously decent score, but I am unlikely to produce images that will engage you in thought and have you get lost in them while pondering something that my image evoked in you.

I'm just not that kind of photographer.

I'm okay with that, because like you say, I can develop my skills, learn the mechanics of the craft to a point where they'll be more technically correct, but if I REALLY capture an emotive image, and start to be able to see more with my soul, it will only be with the help and influence of people like these guys.

And again, this is only what YOU make of it and what YOU do with the input that you get.

It's kinda funny, really, what you see as confrontation is actually genuine offerings of different points of view.

You don't have to like or adopt the views, techniques and styles, but you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't accept and understand them.

Just this average photog's opinion.......8>)

02/26/2009 08:32:14 AM · #341

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

This REALLY is the crux of it, isn't it.

I have no formal training, and don't even have a high school diploma.

Therefore, my style, and opinions, not to mention ability to "see" an image are not as valid as yours, correct?

That's what it sounds like to me......8>)

HOWEVER.......I respect your opinions, and right to them, so the way you feel really isn't going to change how, or why, I vote and comment the way I do.

If you want to know how or why I vote the way I do, and if you remotely care whether or not a "heathen" like me gets anything out of an image of yours on a strictly visceral level, then you'd have to open your mind and be genuinely interested, rather than just dismissing muy input out of hand.

See how that works?.......8>)

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

02/26/2009 09:09:54 AM · #342

02/25/2009 12:00:51 PM

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

... I don't see any need or reason to continue on either anymore. ...

That didn't last long.

02/26/2009 11:00:20 AM · #343

Originally posted by zeuszen:

PLEASE,

PhotoInterest, READ this and do the math....

If he's voted 25% of what he's viewed since April of '03, he's looked at roughly 71,500 images, and voted 14,300.

Here's a man that has DEFINITELY taken the time to look at the offerings, and the fact that he doesn't choose to clutter the stats with votes on images that leave zero impression is remarkably insightful and honest as a voter.

He has taken the time to explain why and how he votes. That is solely for informational purposes, he is under no obligation to explain himself to anyone.

So......what does this information tell you?

It tells me that if I get any comment at all from him, I've caught his eye in one manner or another. Considering his history here and the generally insightful manner that he makes comments, that tells me I should consider what he has to say.....but ONLY if I want to improve as he sees it.

So that's your option......shoot for the audience that YOU want to cultivate, that YOU feel is the audience whose approval you seek.

The rest is just filler.

It seems, to me, that you just don't understand that it's all a perspective thing........from what it looks like to me, you merely want to argue against any other point of view towards others' systems, rather than seeing them as a glimpse into what they are seeking in the way of artistic value......yet to hear you say it, that IS what you're seeking.

So I'm puzzled at your reactions to the opinions offered by some pretty august members of this community. The inferences, and outright statements that these folks are arguing, or being confrontational is only in your choice as to how you accept what's offered.

How can you seek value if you don't see it in the viewers/voters? You know that no one is going to see things the same way you do, so why not try to understand what it is that you evoke, and try to improve on that, IF......this is the audience you do in fact want.

02/26/2009 11:56:08 AM · #344

Ok, this is simply a lynch mob now. How many against one person? Is it fun guys? It must be!

Mousie, you have stated that I should stick by my convictions and vote the way that I see fit. Yet, I\'m being told that I\'m wrong no matter what way I go, I\'m wrong in my perspective. Well, I\'m sticking to my perspective. While you argue that everyone has the right to see things the way that they see them, you are also saying (as the rest are) that I should see it \"your way\".

Jeb....you are rumbling on about the idea that I stated I was an art major and have read into it as me putting YOU down, personally somehow. I stated that because I was explaining HOW I HAVE BEEN VOTING and why. Trust me, YOU were not part of my thoughts in any way at that moment...nor, anyone else for that matter! :) I said that I conceded this debate and yet, even my reasonings for the concession weren\'t accepted. I\'m even wrong in having those reasonings. Am I supposed to see it exactly as you all do? What happened to the idea of doing \"as you please\" that you\'ve all been advocating so strongly? Or, are there only certain standards by which I must decide what \"pleases me\" now too?

You\'ve all spent a great deal of time, telling me that everyone should have their own perspectives and vote according to what they feel like voting and seeing shots as they feel like seeing them. Ok. I conceded that point. Edward wanted me to explain what I concede and why. I did that. I explained. That was MY reasoning. Yet, here you all are like a bunch of kids in a schoolyard, still tearing my words apart and my reasonings. Are you trying to say that I must believe exactly as you all do and say it the right way before you\'ll let up and stop tearing into me? Again, what happened to \"do what pleases you\"???? Or, is it only \"Do what pleases you as long as you see it OUR WAY\"? We are \"The Veterans\"...The Head Honchos....the ones who know best!

Ok, bottom line here. You vote your way...I\'ll vote mine. You have your reasons, I\'ll have mine. There...now, if you can find something wrong with that statement and want to pick that apart...you\'ve all got more time on your hands than I do and go on with this infantile set of snipes like a bunch of school kids in a school yard!

And, if I\'m going to be called out for \"getting personal\"....the rest of the posters here had better also be chastised as well!

It\'s nothing but one huge playground now to continue taking snipes and patting one another on the backs for there\'s nothing that I\'m going to be able to say that is going to not be ripped apart with glee.

And, if one person's opinion doesn't matter, why the need to continue tearing into me? Who am I? Why has my personal opinion bother you all so much that you've all found the need to not only go on and on but, to gang up and continue tearing apart every word that I've said? LOOK at the number of quotes you all have made of my words! Am I some kind of threat to you all? So, why the need to continue bashing me?

Again...so much for your stance of believing what you want to believe, voting as you want to vote etc.. What you're all really saying is that you want ME to say and believe what you do!

What hypocracy and contradictions!

I say lock this thread up now.

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

02/26/2009 12:09:16 PM · #345

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Ok, bottom line here. You vote your way...I\'ll vote mine.

And that is just the way it should be.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

I say lock this thread up now.

Seems a little disingenuous having just asked a little in excess of a dozen questions!

02/26/2009 12:13:48 PM · #346

They were rhetorical questions, only Sara. :)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/26/2009 12:23:09 PM · #347

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Ok, this is simply a lynch mob now. How many against one person? Is it fun guys? It must be!

PLEASE don't perceive it that way. These are good people just trying to offer up a view into their ideas.

At NO point is anyone even asking you to change.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Mousie, you have stated that I should stick by my convictions and vote the way that I see fit. Yet, I\'m being told that I\'m wrong no matter what way I go, I\'m wrong in my perspective. Well, I\'m sticking to my perspective. While you argue that everyone has the right to see things the way that they see them, you are also saying (as the rest are) that I should see it \"your way\".

Nobody has stated that you're wrong about anything other than the way you're perceiving the input you're getting. Really!

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Jeb....you are rumbling on about the idea that I stated I was an art major and have read into it as me putting YOU down, personally somehow. I stated that because I was explaining HOW I HAVE BEEN VOTING and why. Trust me, YOU were not part of my thoughts in any way at that moment...nor, anyone else for that matter! :) I said that I conceded this debate and yet, even my reasonings for the concession weren\'t accepted. I\'m even wrong in having those reasonings. Am I supposed to see it exactly as you all do? What happened to the idea of doing \"as you please\" that you\'ve all been advocating so strongly? Or, are there only certain standards by which I must decide what \"pleases me\" now too?

No, I said "This REALLY is the crux of it, isn't it.

I have no formal training, and don't even have a high school diploma.

Therefore, my style, and opinions, not to mention ability to "see" an image are not as valid as yours, correct?

That's what it sounds like to me......8>)

HOWEVER.......I respect your opinions, and right to them, so the way you feel really isn't going to change how, or why, I vote and comment the way I do.

I didn't take it to mean anything one way or the other, I merely explained what it sounded like to me....and then stuck a smiley at the end. I also then went on to explain the effect that what you said has.....just input, nothing more.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

You\'ve all spent a great deal of time, telling me that everyone should have their own perspectives and vote according to what they feel like voting and seeing shots as they feel like seeing them. Ok. I conceded that point. Edward wanted me to explain what I concede and why. I did that. I explained. That was MY reasoning. Yet, here you all are like a bunch of kids in a schoolyard, still tearing my words apart and my reasonings. Are you trying to say that I must believe exactly as you all do and say it the right way before you\'ll let up and stop tearing into me? Again, what happened to \"do what pleases you\"???? Or, is it only \"Do what pleases you as long as you see it OUR WAY\"? We are \"The Veterans\"...The Head Honchos....the ones who know best!

PLEASE show us where this is stated?///

PLEASE??????

It's ALWAYS been recommended that YOU vote using YOUR style and that you simply utilize others' styles as a tool for your own statistical usage.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

Again...so much for your stance of believing what you want to believe, voting as you want to vote etc.. What you're all really saying is that you want ME to say and believe what you do!

I feel comfortable in saying that this is an absolute, unequivocally preposterous interpretation of what any of us has said.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

02/26/2009 12:28:16 PM · #348

This thread has diverged from reality a bit too far.

eamurdock

Pentax KP

Pentax FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited AF

02/26/2009 01:35:59 PM · #349

I've asked it before and I don't expect an answer this time, but for those who think 1-3 votes should be somehow discouraged, can you tell me why? Not, "this pic or that pic doesn't deserve a 1" but rather "this pic/photographer was harmed in some substantive way by getting a 1".

'coz honestly I've gotten a ton of 1's yet have to date not been hurt by it.

Mousie

Canon EOS-5D Mark II