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 02/06/2009 07:06:10 PM · #26
Originally posted by dbeau:
So how does this Brown Ribbon challenge work? Does one carry the theme of the brown ribbon forward and re-shoot it? How much flexibility does a person have? What am I missing? Thanks for your explanations.


It's your own judgement if you want to completely duplicate the brownie or simply base your image on it. Here is the previous Brown ribbon deja vu challenge
 02/06/2009 07:17:12 PM · #27
I hope someone picks one of mine this time!! LOL!
 02/07/2009 11:42:30 AM · #28
How are people titleing their entries? Are people referencing the Brown in the title or just in the notes?

ETA Never mind - the Ba^&*rd date on my camera was set wrong, no more photo!

Message edited by author 2009-02-07 11:50:35.
 02/07/2009 12:31:34 PM · #29
bvy this is a fantastic piece of work you have done here. You really do double deserve a very special ribbon for this.
 02/07/2009 04:32:11 PM · #30
Thanks very much bvy for the work done posting the thumbnails. That was very helpful. When I first read about this challenge, I thought it was not worth the effort. But, the thumbnail review triggered an inspiration. And, I actually spent much of this day finding my subject and shooting for this challenge. And, I like the result. Funny how things fell into place.
 02/07/2009 10:52:44 PM · #31
Thanks for the kind words, all. Glad to help. And it sounds like it's getting more folks into this challenge, which is a good thing...
 02/08/2009 09:08:40 PM · #32
"You should reference the last place entry in the details on the submission page (use a thumb tag)."

Not sure what this means...

Anyone?
 02/08/2009 09:10:50 PM · #33
In your entry, where you enter the "additional information" about your editing steps, use the regular Forum tags for inserting a thumbnail to put a link to the original Brown ribbon winner on which you are basing your entry. After the voting is over, it will be easy for people to compare your shot with the original.
 02/08/2009 09:41:31 PM · #34
Originally posted by JimiRose:
How are people titleing their entries? Are people referencing the Brown in the title or just in the notes?

ETA Never mind - the Ba^&*rd date on my camera was set wrong, no more photo!

At least you noticed now, before the submissions closed!

My title references but does not duplicate the title of the image on which mine's based.

The real "problem" with this challenge is that it's essentially a Free Study -- given that there's no known, standard theme -- and so basically the "best photo" will win, whereas I think that the highest regard should go to whomever is able to make the most significant improvement over the original -- something we won't be able to assess until the voting's over, when we can compare the two editions directly.
 02/08/2009 09:49:56 PM · #35
Originally posted by GeneralE:
...and so basically the "best photo" will win, whereas I think that the highest regard should go to whomever is able to make the most significant improvement over the original -- something we won't be able to assess until the voting's over, when we can compare the two editions directly.


Not necessarily so. Look at the last challenge. Every third or fourth entry has the image ID of the brown they're revisiting. Others explicitly reference image title and/or user name. Depends on how much work the voters want to do, I guess...
 02/08/2009 10:22:15 PM · #36
Originally posted by bvy:
Depends on how much work the voters want to do, I guess...

Well, doesn't always, when you get right down to it. Maybe I'll try the Image_ID thing, since it's only in comparison to the original that I'm guessing it's even possible to get a positive reaction. :-)

Message edited by author 2009-02-08 22:22:33.
 02/08/2009 10:42:56 PM · #37
I have also gone with the original image title, photographer and challenge for my entry.

I hope most of the voters make the effort to view the original brown entry. Bound to make things more fun that way IMO.
 02/09/2009 05:14:23 AM · #38

I'm struggling to see how I can vote on any image other than the ones where the entrant had the good sense to reference the original brown ribbon image they are looking to improve upon?

02/09/2009 05:35:19 AM · #39
Originally posted by Lutchenko:
I'm struggling to see how I can vote on any image other than the ones where the entrant had the good sense to reference the original brown ribbon image they are looking to improve upon?


I agree, it makes it very hard to be judging one set of entries against one criteria, (ie meeting the challenge) and the remaining against another, (ie, simply if I like the image). It almost seems unfair to those who have detailed the brown they are redoing?
 02/09/2009 05:57:37 AM · #40
Going to start voting and giving comments. I have decided to only vote and give comments on entries that have given an IMAGE ID and/or title so that I can go back and look at the original brown to compare it and base my vote and comment on that. I see many images that I cannot trace back to the original brown and so those I wont give score or comments on. I can only vote if I can compare the image to the brown.
Regards
Fred

Message edited by author 2009-02-09 06:01:54.
 02/09/2009 06:22:55 AM · #41
Originally posted by ThingFish:
Going to start voting and giving comments. I have decided to only vote and give comments on entries that have given an IMAGE ID and/or title so that I can go back and look at the original brown to compare it and base my vote and comment on that. I see many images that I cannot trace back to the original brown and so those I wont give score or comments on. I can only vote if I can compare the image to the brown.
Regards
Fred


I agree entirely and I think I will also adopt this approach

Message edited by author 2009-02-09 06:23:04.
 02/09/2009 06:42:43 AM · #42
Originally posted by Lutchenko:
Originally posted by ThingFish:
Going to start voting and giving comments. I have decided to only vote and give comments on entries that have given an IMAGE ID and/or title so that I can go back and look at the original brown to compare it and base my vote and comment on that. I see many images that I cannot trace back to the original brown and so those I wont give score or comments on. I can only vote if I can compare the image to the brown.
Regards
Fred


I agree entirely and I think I will also adopt this approach


Slightly harsh as the challenge description states : "You should reference the last place entry in the details on the submission page (use a thumb tag)." and nothing regarding the title
 02/09/2009 06:54:59 AM · #43
Originally posted by bobonacus:

Slightly harsh as the challenge description states : "You should reference the last place entry in the details on the submission page (use a thumb tag)." and nothing regarding the title


You do of course raise a fair point here but, if we vote on the entries that have not given a reference to the original in the title how are we to judge?

I suppose we could simply vote as if it were a free study, but what would be the point of the challenge?

Message edited by author 2009-02-09 06:55:23.
 02/09/2009 06:57:36 AM · #44
Originally posted by Lutchenko:
Originally posted by ThingFish:
Going to start voting and giving comments. I have decided to only vote and give comments on entries that have given an IMAGE ID and/or title so that I can go back and look at the original brown to compare it and base my vote and comment on that. I see many images that I cannot trace back to the original brown and so those I wont give score or comments on. I can only vote if I can compare the image to the brown.
Regards
Fred


I agree entirely and I think I will also adopt this approach


And I thought I was supposed to be the Troll here!! :)

I am going to assume that most of the photograpers have followed the rules and I will as such vote each photograph for what they are worth regardless of references or other 'rules' that may be created by the voters in hindsight. I will also assume that a good photograph indeed is an improvement over an entry that originally ended up last in a challenge.

Sometimes we tend to get so stuck on technicalities and the few people that misinterpret (or do not follow) rules that we forget to see the beauty in the images.

For me; everyone will remain innocent until proven guilty. And I do know that 99% of us are innocent so I will vote with that in mind, and not let the 1% that might be cheating decide how I vote or comment.

May the best photograph win :)
 02/09/2009 07:05:46 AM · #45
Originally posted by bobonacus:
Slightly harsh as the challenge description states : "You should reference the last place entry in the details on the submission page (use a thumb tag)." and nothing regarding the title

You added a narrower definer that was not included in the challenge description. (emphasis by me)

One only needs to check on the previous Brown Ribbon challenge to see the winning images' technique of adding a title, or id#, or challenge name, or author & title to the title of the re-imagined image to guide the voter. About 80% of the entries did that in the current Brown challenge. Those who gave little or no clue as to what Brown image they were using as their model missed the whole point. The most effective images in this challenge made it convenient to check the source image. It was a lot of fun to compare.

Those who didn't provide a good reference, or any reference, created a great deal of frustration for the voter. I'd think that would be reflected in their scores. The challenge is meaningless without a connection to the Brown Ribbon homage. Fortunately, not too many omitted the crucial information.

Message edited by author 2009-02-09 07:08:09.
 02/09/2009 07:05:52 AM · #46
I don't think anyone is suggesting that people are in anyway cheating, it's simply that when voting I would make a judgement as to how well the original last place image has been interpreted in the new and improved image.
Therefore if I am unable to make that judgement, that would automatically,IMO, limit the score I could allocate and in fact in that case it may be better not to mark that image as it runs the risk of reducing that person's score unfairly.

Message edited by author 2009-02-09 07:12:08.
 02/09/2009 07:19:17 AM · #47
Where does it say that scoring this challenge should be based on how much improved the new entry is over the brown? Really, I think this challenge is, in effect, a free study, where one is asked to draw inspiration from the bottom of the barrel.

It might be a fun exercise to compare entries to their corresponding brown, but I don't think that was the point -- especially when handing out scores. Certainly if it was, a better technical mechanism would be in place to make the comparison.

(That said, my entry clearly references the original. Wasn't taking any chances.)
 02/09/2009 07:19:35 AM · #48
Originally posted by Lutchenko:
I don't think anyone is suggesting that people are in anyway cheating, it's simply that when voting I would make a judgement as to how well the original last place image has been interpreted in the new and improved image.
Therefore if I am unable to make that judgement, that would automatically,IMO, limit the score I good allocate and in fact in that case it may be better not to mark that image as it runs the risk of reducing that person's score unfairly.

It could be that I misunderstood (see, I'm one of the 1%! :) )

I understood that we were supposed to make an excellent entry out of a last place entry. In that case I will rate the most excellent image highest and the least excellent image lowest. I did not see anywhere that I was supposed to rate the improvement factor.

I do however respect how you and the others that supported you will not vote/comment images without proper image_id in the title but I will personally do it differently. No hard feelings at all from me. We are all different (I hope!) :)
 02/09/2009 07:37:07 AM · #49
Originally posted by TrollMan:


I do however respect how you and the others that supported you will not vote/comment images without proper image_id in the title but I will personally do it differently. No hard feelings at all from me. We are all different (I hope!) :)


If we were all the same things would be very boring and I'm sure all the submissions on here would converge to a standard winning formula. As it is we are indeed different and that's what makes the whole thing fun.

Lets see how this one turns out and then I'm sure there will be some good post challenge discussions.
 02/09/2009 07:37:39 AM · #50
LOL!

Message edited by author 2009-02-09 08:38:17.
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