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01/21/2009 09:45:10 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Playing Devils advocate here... |
While it looks that way on the surface, I'm not sure it's really accurate. When electing someone to represent themselves in government, people tend to vote for the person they identify with (for obvious reasons). When one of them happens to be from "your" group, is a skilled orator, demonstrates the ability to achieve success from humble beginnings, understands the constitution inside and out, proposees apparently wise choices from campaign to policy to cabinet picks, AND runs against an unpopular party in hard times, it's sort of a slam dunk. Had Obama been running against an equally intelligent and skilled orator during good times, I believe the votes would have been spread around more evenly. FWIW, the majority of African Americans live in a swath of eight southeast states, from Arkansas to Virginia, and Obama lost six of those.
I think the racial aspect was just icing on the cake of a much bigger story anyway. Has anyone ever seen such national and worldwide joy at an inauguration? The Bush administration may have been hugely unpopular within America, but in other countries, strongarmed by its religious and protectionist agendas, it was practically evil– a POV bolstered by frequent news of torture, corruption and violations of international law. I'll put it this way: last year I had the opportunity to travel through several countries in Europe and the Middle East, and even in friendly countries like Italy you couldn't exactly take pride in being an American. You had to take an almost apologetic tone when discussing Iraq or just about any other political subject abroad. From a sympathetic peak after 9/11, this country's image has been in free fall ever since. In a single stroke, Obama's election has partially restored America's image, and that's a very good thing. |
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01/21/2009 09:48:39 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
For those who don't think this is a milestone in American history, look again. Think again.
The race wars, the civil rights movement amongst others have paved the way for this to happen. Sure it's just another Presidential inauguration, but the person being sworn in shows that the American people can rise above and choose well. Only time will tell how well. To forget this is to forget history and forgetting history raises the chance of repeating it.
I wish him (Obama) well. |
Playing Devils advocate here - it seems from the majority of news reports that most black voters voted for Obama. Surely this should be considered racist in itself, the fact they didnt want to vote "for the white guy" and cast their vote on the basis of Obamas colour alone. surely now is the time for those black people with a chip on their shoulder to realise that most white people really dont care if someone is black, white, yellow or whatever - the ones who seem to have the biggest issue with the colour of someones skin are black people themselves. |
... and there are news reports indicating that white voters weren't voting for him because he was black. There is still racial tension in the US coming from both the black and non-black communities. However, that was not present yesterday. It seems that the American people (at least those on the Mall) have overcome that hurdle, for now. Only time will tell how far those with a chip (black and non-black) will go. I don't believe a majority of black voters are that shallow.
ETA: Shannon said it better than I did.
Message edited by author 2009-01-21 09:52:38. |
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01/21/2009 10:00:06 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Everything seems the same as it did one hour ago. Where's the hope? Where's the change? |
Thanks Hawkboy. You reminded me of the day after Ronald Ray-Gun (zap!) was sworn in. The very next day he was blamed for natural gas prices shooting up. Because of legislation voted in by a majority democrat congress and signed into law by James Earl Carter. |
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01/21/2009 10:01:55 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
They did fine. And the oath the VP takes is pretty darn similiar (except for that Vice President part) to what we mere peons take, which is kinda cool. :-) |
And us mere civilians are expected to abide by the same oath, even if we have not uttered it. Without mental reservation, or purpose of evasion. |
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01/21/2009 10:04:00 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
(Just discovered I'm older than my new Commander in Chief...) |
Yup. First prez that I'm older than...... |
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01/21/2009 10:06:31 AM · #81 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Except it was a downgrade in idiotology. |
Typo corrected. ;-) |
Ol Jeez, I'm gonna miss the Bushisms. Hell, what are the comedy writers going to do now? |
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01/21/2009 10:09:40 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by soup:
ah presidents.
at least bush II is headed back to texas for good. too bad we have to pay for his security until he's really gone... of course he's proven without a doubt he couldn't defend himself if a quail jumped out of the bushes... |
Nope. That law changed. Former presidents only get 10 years of protection now. BushII will be the first not to get lifetime protection.... depending on how long he lives of course. |
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01/21/2009 10:22:50 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Playing Devils advocate here - it seems from the majority of news reports that most black voters voted for Obama. Surely this should be considered racist in itself, the fact they didnt want to vote "for the white guy" and cast their vote on the basis of Obamas colour alone. |
True, most black voters voted for Obama. But black voters historically vote overwhelmingly Democratic, even though all previous Democratic candidates have been white. The big change in voting trends for this election was white voters in certain geographic areas (mostly Appalachia), who voted more Republican than expected. While the country as a whole trended slightly to the left, these areas trended slightly to the right. I think it's pretty clear why. So I disagree with your premise.
Originally posted by Simms:
surely now is the time for those black people with a chip on their shoulder to realise that most white people really dont care if someone is black, white, yellow or whatever - the ones who seem to have the biggest issue with the colour of someones skin are black people themselves. |
I disagree with this on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin.
Liza
Message edited by author 2009-01-21 10:23:48. |
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01/21/2009 10:27:58 AM · #84 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Has anyone ever seen such national and worldwide joy at an inauguration? The Bush administration may have been hugely unpopular within America, but in other countries, strongarmed by its religious and protectionist agendas, it was practically evil– a POV bolstered by frequent news of torture, corruption and violations of international law. I'll put it this way: last year I had the opportunity to travel through several countries in Europe and the Middle East, and even in friendly countries like Italy you couldn't exactly take pride in being an American. You had to take an almost apologetic tone when discussing Iraq or just about any other political subject abroad. From a sympathetic peak after 9/11, this country's image has been in free fall ever since. In a single stroke, Obama's election has partially restored America's image, and that's a very good thing. |
A lot of Americans knew that they weren't liked in other parts of the world, but most of them never realized just how bad it was in some places. I hardly ever admitted I was American because of the things people would say to me, completely unprovoked by anything except the fact that I hold an American passport. I was walking through a Turkish bazaar once and started talking to a shopkeeper. When I reluctantly told him I was American, he started yelling and screaming about all the terrible things America was doing/letting happen until I finally escaped out of the shop. I often would show my Swiss residency permit before my American passport to avoid these kind of things. There have been time when I have pretended not to know English because English-speakers were discriminated against as they were assumed to be American (or British, who weren't incredibly well-liked either do to their ties with Bush).
Of course I had many reasons why I like Obama, but one of them was that the rest of the world liked him and wanted him to be our next president. When I would tell that to Americans, they would often tell me that if the world liked Obama, all the more reason to vote for McCain! It drove me crazy. It was like some Americans almost prided themselves on being hated by so many other countries. And here I thought we were supposed to be working toward global unity or something.
I guess it all worked out in the end anyway since Obama was indeed elected, for which I am thankful.
But I also agree with the others on here when they say that the haters should let the happy people just be happy for once. |
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01/21/2009 10:29:56 AM · #85 |
I am still younger but this is the first president that is from my generation, sort of anyway, falls with in the age group of several of my friends.
I think Obamas age is going to be very helpful when it comes to reaching out to the black youth as well as white latino asian etc, in America especially the kids involved in gangs who strongly believe they have no future because of the color of their skin or the street they live on.
After what I seen and heard yesterday I believe this Country is now pointed in a positive direction again and with a little time and alot of effort from the people in this country we can get things back to the way they should be. If everyone pitches in Obamas plan will work. So if you love this country, Give the guy a chance and do your own part to rebuild, restructure and recreate the Great America that so many others before us worked hard and faught for. Quit the complaining quit the bitchin and work as a team. Doesn't matter who is driving the car as long as they know where they are headed. But the Mechanics, Thats us!!!! Gotta make sure that car is in factory mint condition.
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Originally posted by Melethia:
(Just discovered I'm older than my new Commander in Chief...) |
Yup. First prez that I'm older than...... |
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01/21/2009 10:33:23 AM · #86 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Playing Devils advocate here - it seems from the majority of news reports that most black voters voted for Obama. Surely this should be considered racist in itself, the fact they didnt want to vote "for the white guy" and cast their vote on the basis of Obamas colour alone. surely now is the time for those black people with a chip on their shoulder to realise that most white people really dont care if someone is black, white, yellow or whatever - the ones who seem to have the biggest issue with the colour of someones skin are black people themselves. |
I so disagree....
I so did not want to get into this forum topic here but your post I had to say something..... First its the news, these damn news stations or tv anchors are gonna say anything to start a controversy/hot topic and with his his skin color the news is gonna jump right on that....I also heard some news stations looking at the amount of mixed communities, people, religions, races whom voted for him and if you looked at the tv and saw the amount of support he had in the mall with the amount of different faces and people anybody would see that he had a large amount of mixed votes/supporters.
Now I am a black man and just because of his skin color is NOT the reason I voted for him and the same goes for the rest of my friends, family and other people I know. I have a few black friends whom voted for the other guy. Oh and no I dont have a chip on my shoulder and nor do my friends and family. To be truthful I was not really sure about either one until it was time to vote and I had enough info on both of them.
I find it wrong to say that it should be considered racist in itself, if they other guy one and the news was saying he had a majority of white voters I would never say they should be considered racist because they voted for him. I dont consider most of his voters to be that shallow (black or white or any other races).
Originally posted by fireserpent:
Simms, even though you're only playing devil's advocate here... one can not possibly know the motivation for someone to vote for a person unless they tell you. And just because a statistical majority of african american people voted for him does not mean they did so soley on the fact that he's black... of which he is also white as well. Is it not racist to believet that only black people voted for him simply because he is black? It couldn't be that he was voted for resoundingly by black people for the same reasons that the majority of white people who voted for him?
The thing is that even if every single black person in America voted for him, he wouldn't be president today if everyone else didn't vote for him as well. Look again at the polls and demographics of those who voted for Obama. I think you'll be surprised how little weight your words hold when you realize just how many latinos, whites, young, old, asian, educated, uneducated, rich and poor people voted for him. I'm certain they didn't do it just because he was black... and neither did the black people in the country.
As a side note... it is equally racist to vote for someone because they're white or because they are not black Simms. Think about it. |
Greatly said
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
... and there are news reports indicating that white voters weren't voting for him because he was black. There is still racial tension in the US coming from both the black and non-black communities. However, that was not present yesterday. It seems that the American people (at least those on the Mall) have overcome that hurdle, for now. Only time will tell how far those with a chip (black and non-black) will go. I don't believe a majority of black voters are that shallow. |
Also agree, and greatly said
Message edited by author 2009-01-21 10:44:59.
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01/21/2009 10:49:08 AM · #87 |
from my perspectyive...
1. The booing was uncalled for and disrespectful.
2. Being liked is not always a good thing.
3. The example of this smooth/seemless transfer of power between two (sometimes) opposing ideologies is a testament to our country and should serve to illuminate this process for all who witnessed it.
4. It truly was a milestone day. |
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01/21/2009 10:56:02 AM · #88 |
Also it should be noted that only about 2% more black people voted in this election than in previous elections. That's not representative of the nearly 10 million vote spread which Obama beat McCain over.
What I really found disturbing about the inauguration was the crowd booing the former president and vice president. I don't care how poorly people think he did during his two terms of office or how he responded to things... that reaction was entirely disrespectful and I was appalled to hear that coming from the over 2 million person crowd of people. Mr. Bush had a very tough 8 years fighting off terrorist attacks, repeated natural disasters, financial breakdown, war, dictatorships, a worldwide manhunt, and Paris Hilton... just to name a few. In 2004 the country rallied behind him and in 2009 they were booing his image. It only goes to show that the hearts of Americans are fickle and they forget the greater good that Mr. Bush was striving to work towards and like every man, sometimes he fell short of greatness because the expectations were so high.
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01/21/2009 10:56:59 AM · #89 |
LOL i was just saying that very thing Flash :)
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01/21/2009 10:57:40 AM · #90 |
I agree the booing was uncalled for yesterday
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01/21/2009 01:15:39 PM · #91 |
Yup, dismayed by the booing crowd. Also true during the campaign.
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01/21/2009 08:06:05 PM · #92 |
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01/21/2009 08:30:26 PM · #93 |
The booing was nothing compared to the hateful Republican chants and rhetoric during the campaign.
I only bring it up for comparison, it doesn't make it OK. |
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01/21/2009 08:34:23 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by Flash:
3. The example of this smooth/seemless transfer of power between two (sometimes) opposing ideologies is a testament to our country and should serve to illuminate this process for all who witnessed it. |
Yes. I am thankful that Bush/Cheney didn't try to make a power grab and stay in office illegally. |
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01/21/2009 08:41:23 PM · #95 |
Had to laugh at the comments on that article. People are arguing over who messed up first, Obama or Roberts.
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01/22/2009 01:21:56 AM · #96 |
Voter demographics
The following statistics are based on exit polls taken on November 4.
SOCIAL GROUPS AND THE PRESIDENTIAL VOTE, 2008
Size Obama McCain Other
Party
Democratic 39% 89% 10% 1%
Independent 29% 52% 44% 4%
Republican 32% 10 % 89% 1%
Ideology
Liberal 22% 89% 10% 1%
Moderate 44% 60% 39% 1%
Conservative 34% 20% 78% 2%
Race
Black 13% 95% 4% 1%
Hispanic 9% 67% 31% 2%
White 74% 44% 55% 2%
Asian 2% 62% 35% 3%
Other 3% 66% 31% 3%
Sex
Female 53% 56% 43% 1%
Male 47% 49% 48% 3%
Religion
Protestant 54% 45% 54% 1%
Catholic 27% 54% 45% 1%
Jewish 2% 78% 21% 1%
Other 6% 73% 22% 5%
None 12% 75% 23% 2%
Military Background
Yes 15% 44% 54% 2%
No 85% 54% 44% 2%
Family Income
Less than $15,000 6% 73% 25% 2%
$15,000–$29,999 12% 60% 37% 3%
$30,000-$49,999 19% 55% 43% 2%
$50,000-$74,999 21% 48% 49% 3%
$75,000-$99,999 15% 51% 48% 1%
$100,000-$149,999 14% 48% 51% 1%
$150,000-$199,999 6% 48% 50% 2%
Greater than $200,000 6% 52% 46% 2%
Education
No High School 4% 63% 35% 2%
H.S. Graduate 20% 52% 46% 2%
Some College 31% 51% 47% 2%
College Graduate 28% 50% 48% 2%
Postgraduate Study 17% 58% 40% 2%
Union Membership
Union Member 12% 59% 39% 3%
Non-Union Member 88% 51% 47% 2%
Age
18–29 years old 18% 66% 32% 2%
30-44 years old 29% 52% 46% 2%
45–64 years old 37% 50% 49% 1%
65 years or older 16% 45% 53% 2%
Region
Northeast 21% 59% 40% 1%
South 32% 45% 54% 1%
Midwest 24% 54% 44% 2%
West 23% 57% 40% 3%
Sexual Orientation
Heterosexual 96% 53% 45% 2%
Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual 4% 70% 27% 3%
Gun Ownership
Gun Owner in Household 42% 37% 62% 1%
No Gun Owner in Household 58% 65% 33% 2%
Bush Approval
Approve 27% 10% 89% 1%
Disapprove 71% 67% 31% 2%
Source: CNN Exit poll [176]
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01/22/2009 05:35:16 AM · #97 |
I watched the inaguration and I truely think it was a milestone for the US. 1st, I think the better candidate won, just my opinion. I truely believe that even 10 years ago we wouldn't have elected an African American as president. I think it shows how far we've come as a nation to equality. Are we there yet? No, we still have a ways to go. But we are slowly making progress. To watch the expressions on the faces of the older people there that were old enough to remember the marches and conflict was priceless.
I read a post on another site yesterday where someone said they can't wait to travel abroad again. It's amazing at how our standing in the international community has changed overnight. I live and work in Europe and I have to agree with someone in a post above me. Sometimes I just didn't want people to know I was from the US. Sad.
Only the future will tell if he will be a good president. Right now he has my support though. |
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01/22/2009 05:35:19 PM · #98 |
| Though I am a photographer, reading these comments regarding race has made me wish the world was blind. |
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01/22/2009 06:01:51 PM · #99 |
| Wait ... wait ... Obama's black? |
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01/22/2009 06:05:51 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Originally posted by Melethia:
(Just discovered I'm older than my new Commander in Chief...) |
Yup. First prez that I'm older than...... |
That's when I finally figured out that I'm old. When the President is in my age group (he's 2 years older). |
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