Studio lighting..Help - DPChallenge Forums

01/04/2009 02:15:50 PM · #1

I have a small studio room. I use 2 600w Interfit/stellar strobes. I want to add strobe for hair lighting/back lighting. I want to stay with Interfit lights. Would the 150w strobe work? I like the look of soft boxes, would a 12x36" softbox work or should I just use the light itself for this situation? Addition question; I use a 36x36" as the main light, and a umbrella on the other one. Thinking of getting a 24x48" strip softbox for side lighting. What do you think?

01/04/2009 03:43:30 PM · #2

It all depends on you. What look are you going for, what 'works' for you, your space, etc.

I use interfit 300ws lights and have one 600. I never run the 300s at full power but got the 600 more for outside use and the higher wattage modeling light. I like the faster recycling time of the 300s better.

Anyway, for studio work I use most a 2x2 softbox for fill, a 3x4 foot one for main light, and a strip for hair/bg purposes. But my old studio space was in my basement - no way to get a real hairlight so I'd use a grid on the inter fit reflector. worked OK, but not great - had to adjust it a lot.

I did a shoot for a college yearbook and used 2 lights with 60" umbrellas and love the effect I got. //www.pbase.com/cpphotography/school_pictures the shots with the bookcase in the BG. One light was main, behind me, and the other was behind and off to the side a bit of the subject. Simple, not picky adjustment wise as different size people sat for their shot, etc.

So much depends on you though. I have 2 3x4 softboxes but don't use both anymore. I've had the strip box (12x30 or so) for a couple of years and never used it in the old studio, but now do. I think I want a grid for my softboxes now - but they're not cheap and I've never used them, so will I really utilize them? I don't know. I'd like more directional control though.

I attended a PPA meet and the one speaker uses one of those cheapie wall socket type strobes for a hair light. In his studio he's got it in the ceiling above where he sits the subject. It's constant output but in reality you don't often change your strobe/camera settings anyway - you find a light level/aperture you like and pretty much stay there. I've added the outlet in the ceiling in my new studio for this or other hair light and got a boom arm, but it's my offseason so I've not subject to play with yet (And i'm still moving inot the studio space).

01/04/2009 04:10:47 PM · #3

I know light is subjective. Love the 600w, I never have it over 1/2 power or so. A lot of time I have the softbox next & right of the camera at 1/2 and the umbrella back left @ 1/8 or so and use a reflector on the left front side. I want to mount the hair light to the ceiling. I'm thinking the 150w is just not enough power with using a softbox. Going to look at the pricing for the 300w and compare it to the 600w and might just get another 600w. My goal this year is to get into studio work. Thanks for the response!!! (don't want to waste money getting something that doesn't work for me.)

01/04/2009 06:41:20 PM · #4

You can get teh 2 light 300 ws kit with two softboxes for around $500 or so. Not that you need those softboxes, but what you get is the RINGS, and those you need. There are better stands. The carry bag is nice to have, real nice.

I've bought 2 sets of the 300ws lights new (3 years ago as my first lights and again 2 months ago). I picked up 2 used in a trade and I got the one 600 as a light by itself ($340). I've since had one of the 300s' blow a capacitor so it's on a shelf for now (that's when I bought the second kit of 2 300s). I have 2 of the 300's mounted on bogen avenger mounts ($20 or so, the mount to the wall or ceiling and have an end like any lightstand does for the strobe to mount on). These are on the wall in my high key area and just hang out there.

I've got 2 stands on wheels (one from bogen and this imiation version //www.kaboodle.com/reviews/studio-titan-side-kick-7.5-light-stand ) and WOW, not cheap at around $200 but WOW, you NEED one! First, you can get the light to the floor - great for laying down shots, kids, pets, etc. Second you can move a light sooooooooo much easier - be that up and down (it's got a pistol grip deal on it) or push it around even if you're staning on a ladder. You can also get bits and pieces from bogen to mount your camera and laptop to it.

I picked up a used Scene Machine rig and the stand that came with is is like this one - //www.kaboodle.com/reviews/bogen-manfrotto-super-salon-280-camera-stand--9?cp=true - now, please don't be chokin' on the price, but it does make the above Titan or Bogen version seem downright priced to be disposable, huh?

01/05/2009 07:52:12 PM · #5

Thanks buddy, just ordered 2-300w/s one of the softboxes is what I'm looking for the other well, I'll hang on to it. Going with out a softbox for the hair light for now. If the 300w dosen't work for the hair light it should be fine for fill and I'll use the other 600w for the hair, but I think the 300w will work find. Thanks for all the help. Now if I can find a dozen poses or so to perfect, I should be ready to go.

01/05/2009 09:24:36 PM · #6

Shoot tight head shots, not much to pose!

I'm just thrilled that my last senior, all studio stuff, came out with excellent catchlights. I hate to go so far as to say they're prefect or else someone will step in and nitpick the shape or say they belong in the left lower quarter of the eye, etc.

It was dark out so I put a strobe w/ gel outside to light the window/curtain. Not quite the strong color I wanted, but it works. (Copying something I saw on CSI, lighting wise)

01/05/2009 10:37:02 PM · #7

These are Great! I bet she's really happy with them, which brings up a question. Shooting tight like this, I have a hard time printing. Looks like these are 5x7, then you want to print 8x10 which tightens the shot even more. Do you crop per-order? I have a hard time with this, I know I'm not really clear on what I'm saying. I down loaded one with lots of room at the top just to see and it still works well at 8x10, but when you put it into a frame it's even tighter. The other ones that are real tight, if you crop it, it appears to tight. Hope you kinda understand my question. (deleted the shot I down load..LOl)

Message edited by author 2009-01-05 22:38:58.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

01/05/2009 11:36:09 PM · #8

I crop for whatever the order is for, and yes, at times i get screwed on this. The one with the 09 is a wallet, 5x7 ratio. The others I don't remember if I just used the crop for what she ordered or did a crop for the web.

Cropping this one

to 8x10 would be a problem - her head or fingers would be chopped off. (BTW, these are those windows in the daytime, with a flash used as fill to balance the outside daylight. You can see some shadow behind her butt).

Outside I shoot more loose, like this one, where I could crop any size and be fine.

has the top of her head missing, but the flower/hand is all there. I don't mind cropping into the head a bit - too little isn't good, but this looks OK IMO. Idea is to get the eyes in the right place, compositionally speaking, if at all possible.

Now if you shoot high key stuff like

or even with a gel on it like

or a lower high key (well, white BG)

then you can expand the BG in PS to make it whatever crop you need. It's this part of my studio where I now have the lights mounted on the ceiling on the avenger stands - I kept geting the bottom of the light stands in the pic and had to constantly clone them out.

This was a couple of weeks ago when I just started moving stuff back into the studio.

is where I shot the above high key/pink shots. Turn right 90 degrees and you see this

- my lovely windows (i've been working in my basement for 3 years) are behind the strip softbox. You can see the titan stand in the foreground that holds that light.

MattO

Nikon D4

01/05/2009 11:50:14 PM · #9

I'm going to just make a point about something, and maybe someone can back me up or correct me on this.

Hair lights are usually a stop or more above the main, and well above the fill. Meaning if you go with a smaller light you will need to keep your lightsource closer to the subject to obtain this correct? I use an AB400 for my hairlight, but I modify both my main and my fill and have them turned down enough due to the space I have to work in, the AB400 usually just a snoot.
I wouldnt go down too small on the light or else the hair light loses what its intended for. Anyone want to back me up or squash me on this?

Matt

01/05/2009 11:55:42 PM · #10

Oh, back to posing for a moment...
In the preceding post, the first girl is 5 9 and does modeling. Not much for me to do.
the ballerina girl is 4' 11" and the other purple and high key wearing yellow is 5" 11. The girl on the tracks is a more average 5 6 or so. All are thing and can move pretty well.

There are flaws in most every pic, be they the kind PPA judges will find or ones that just bug me or have been pointed out to me (so I should have seen them before I tripped the shutter is how I feel when that happens)

First girl's one had is at a very awkward angle to the camera is the one glaring one amongst these.

This isn't a studio shot, but I think it's one of my best senior shots, good on many levels

And no, there's no easy way to make it an 8x10.

Message edited by author 2009-01-05 23:56:28.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

01/05/2009 11:59:51 PM · #11

Originally posted by MattO:

A hair light should read the same as the main light. It will appear brighter because of the way it hits the subject, a glancing blow.

Here the hair light is the same as the main light, as read at the subject's position. You can see the highlights on the hair, as well as her shoulder and cheek. If the hair light were brighter than the main by a stop these would not be highlights, they'd be blown highlights.
(sorry that this image isn't on DPC)

Message edited by author 2009-01-06 00:03:07.

MattO

Nikon D4

01/06/2009 12:36:33 AM · #12

OK lets use your sample, and say they are suppose to be the same(we can debate anything else later) now lets say you are using the 600ws strobe he has, and need 1/2 power to light a couple with the modifiers, and wants to do high key, now his hairlight is going to be his backdrop light and he wants a white background..........now how does he get 1-1.5 stops above main to blow the background white with the 150ws, or 300ws lights? now with two on it yeah I can see getting that easy, but with just one?

I know he said he ordered two so he would be alright, but the next person to see this thread may not understand all this huh? I'm not sure I do :D

Matt

01/06/2009 09:38:50 AM · #13

Generally you light a high key BG with two lights from teh sides, about 1/2 way up the BG. There are other ways of course, but the concept is to get it a stop to 1.5 above the subject without getting 'backsplash' on the subject, and not get hot spots on the BG (you want it lit evenly - the hardest part of it).

How much light you CAN put out has nothing to do with it. What matters is what the light meter reads. I'm shooting my high key and other studio stuff at F9 at ISO 200 at 1/125 (so I can use the HTP feature of the 40D)

So in this case I really don't care what strobes i'm using, i just turn the knobs till I get F9 on the subject and F12 to 14 or whatever 1 to 1.5 over 9 - i'm still working on my morning coffee).

Since the BG is white you don't need a lot of power to blow it all to hell and back - i've seen F45 on my meter and not been anywhere near full power on the strobes.

I have a 600 and a bunch of 300s and can mix and match and never have issues with a 300 not putting out enough relative to the 600. I've used the 600 in the BG and as fill (usually as fill so I have my 2x2 softbox on it). I've not had any problems turning it down to match either.

I shoot my 'studio light' stuff at F9 more or less. My daylight stuff with the windows is usually ISO800, 2.8 or less and 1/60 or 1/80 or so depending on many factors (closeness to the window, fill flash, sunny or cloudy day, etc)

The head shots below with the bookcases were ISO 400, F3.2 to 4 range and 1/60th (with 70-200 2.8 IS lens at 70-75mm) and the strobes were down fairly low. I wanted to blur out the bookcases so I chose a lens/focal length and aperture to do that, then used ISO and shutter to get the BG looking right. The output of the strobes was a secondary thing. (gotta love LR - easy to look at images and see what you did!)

01/06/2009 09:46:32 PM · #14

Sorry couldn't post from work. My understanding is the hair light should be 1/2 to 1 stop higher then the main light. I guess it depends on your main light, if it's defuse/softbox and the hair light is not defused then matching the main light seems to make sense. If all the lighting is the same then it seems to make sense to bump the hair light? With my current sent up, I set my main light with a softbox at 1/2 power next the camera and use the other light behind and to the left and it's set at 1/8 to 1/4 power bouncing into an umbrella. I think the main thing is not to over do the hair/shoulder light.

For some reason I get my best results at 160 @ f5.6. When I set my lighting with a meter, it's been awhile. I think I set the main light at f5.6, fill at f8 and the hair at f11. I forgot to tell ya I do have a third light currently, it's a old 100w that heats up badly, not fan cooled, no control over the output.

I really haven't thought about high key shots. I've done a couple and agree about on how tough it is to get consistent coverage on the white background. The couple I've done have been cropped tightly to the face with limited background showing.

I see what you saying about cropping, some shots will be what it is.

I guess I need to read up on the HTP feature. Can you do a base run down for me?

I use ps3 for processing, do think Light Room would be something worth looking into?

Chris, Thanks for your help. If you don't mind as I start shooting here in few days, I'd like to keep tapping into your knowledge.

Message edited by author 2009-01-06 21:53:49.