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12/17/2008 07:11:28 AM · #1 |
Okay....this isn't a gripe session about winners & losers, I just want to know if I have the correct understanding of "Fill Flash".
I've heard the term used.....and have had comments left on my images that would suggest that my subject would have been better served with the use of fill flash.
Which I took to mean that the lighting on my subject, from the front, was A)insufficient, or B) overpowered by light enough behind the subject, so that extra light (fill flash) was needed to augment the subject.
Ergo, this image is as I would have thought met the definition.....
Or this:
Now, I think that the 1st & 2nd place images are very nice, but the 3rd place finisher, don't get me wrong, I think it's a delightful image, just says "Flash" to me.
So.....help me out here.....
What the heck *IS* fill flash?????
Message edited by author 2008-12-17 07:12:07.
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12/17/2008 07:18:28 AM · #2 |
I agree with you, my understanding of fill flash is to brighten something against a bright background that would normally be underexposed due to the background having the correct exposure.
I think the 3rd place shot is an awesome shot, it really pops out to me, but imho it's not fill flash |
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12/17/2008 07:23:59 AM · #3 |
Also agreed, that is how I understand fill flash. You are filling in underexposed areas with flash. Then again the top finishes aren't always the most literally on topic but rather the most stunning and beautiful to DPC's voters. :)
Wikipedia says this, so it must be true...
Originally posted by Wikipedia:
Fill Flash:
"Fill flash is a photographic technique used to brighten deep shadow areas, typically outdoors on sunny days, though the technique is useful any time the background is significantly brighter than the subject of the photograph. To use fill flash, the aperture and shutter speed are adjusted to correctly expose the background, and the flash is fired to lighten the foreground." |
At first I thought it was smack on topic, because of the "stars". He set the camera to expose the background, and used flash for the tractor however I see now it is snow and in the foreground, therefore DNMC! Lets mob em! ;)
Message edited by author 2008-12-17 07:26:48. |
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12/17/2008 07:30:47 AM · #4 |
| I think the key with fill flash is using just the right amount. Too little and the shadow areas are still dark; too much and it looks like you're using a flash. That's what made this a difficult challenge, and one of the reasons I didn't vote. |
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12/17/2008 07:38:56 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Ken:
I think the key with fill flash is using just the right amount. Too little and the shadow areas are still dark; too much and it looks like you're using a flash. That's what made this a difficult challenge, and one of the reasons I didn't vote. |
That's what made it frustrating for me.
I had to enter Fill Flash or Before and After for DPCO III, and I had nada for B&A.
I discarded a good half dozen decent flash shots because they didn't fit my definition of "fill".
They still don't, but I was looking for clarification.
Thanks!
 togtog, have you been up too long again? LOL!!!
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12/17/2008 08:18:17 AM · #6 |
I was amazed how many people gave this shot a 4 and below. I did this in a bright sunny day with the sun behind her. The light is evenly distributed and no shadows can be seen. I also think it was a nice portrait. I dont get it.
However it managed to get 13th place. So some people thought it meet the challenge and it was a nice photo
1 = 2 votes
2 = 3 votes
3 = 8 votes
4 = 11 votes
Message edited by author 2008-12-17 08:25:18. |
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12/17/2008 08:29:41 AM · #7 |
| c'mon people you know that people don't vote on if it meets the challenge or not. |
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12/17/2008 08:32:44 AM · #8 |
| I agree with you, Jeb. The first thing I noticed in the winners was the obvious use of flash as the main feature. Your examples meet my definition of fill-flash. It was used in a subtle manner to aid in creating a natural light appearance. As far as meeting the challenge, the blue and red were marginal IMO, with the yellow not meeting it at all. As with many other challenges, it's a guessing game as to how the majority of voters will choose to define it. I suppose brute obviousness tends to win over subtlety. |
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12/17/2008 08:43:04 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
I was amazed how many people gave this shot a 4 and below. I did this in a bright sunny day with the sun behind her. The light is evenly distributed and no shadows can be seen. I also think it was a nice portrait. I dont get it.
However it managed to get 13th place. So some people thought it meet the challenge and it was a nice photo
1 = 2 votes
2 = 3 votes
3 = 8 votes
4 = 11 votes |
[/i]
Jaime....you have to realize that for some reason every photo gets those low votes. I don't know how they aren't filtered out, but sometimes even the winning photos have 1-4's.....Also, for some odd reason people photos are known not to do very well on DPC (this excludes kids, babies, or portraits in a portrait challenge!). So i think 13th is a great. |
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12/17/2008 08:44:42 AM · #10 |
| Oh and to make sure that this thread isn't hijacked...i will reference back to the initial photo....even the photo this thread was started about recieved 10 - 4's and 4 - 3's and 1 - 2's. |
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12/17/2008 08:59:59 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
I was amazed how many people gave this shot a 4 and below. I did this in a bright sunny day with the sun behind her. The light is evenly distributed and no shadows can be seen. I also think it was a nice portrait. I dont get it.
However it managed to get 13th place. So some people thought it meet the challenge and it was a nice photo
1 = 2 votes
2 = 3 votes
3 = 8 votes
4 = 11 votes |
Heh, heh......
I was kind of hoping you'd weigh in 'cause this really was the first one that came to mind as far as meeting the challenge.
IMNSHO, this is far and away the best entry, BUT.....
It's too good.
Why I didn't use this one as my primary example is because it doesn't look like it needed any modification from the scene that it is.
Your meld of flash and natural light is absolutely perfect......and you were punished for it!
LOL!!!
Extremely well done, sir!
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12/17/2008 09:03:44 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
I was amazed how many people gave this shot a 4 and below. I did this in a bright sunny day with the sun behind her. The light is evenly distributed and no shadows can be seen. I also think it was a nice portrait. I dont get it.
However it managed to get 13th place. So some people thought it meet the challenge and it was a nice photo
1 = 2 votes
2 = 3 votes
3 = 8 votes
4 = 11 votes |
Heh, heh......
I was kind of hoping you'd weigh in 'cause this really was the first one that came to mind as far as meeting the challenge.
IMNSHO, this is far and away the best entry, BUT.....
It's too good.
Why I didn't use this one as my primary example is because it doesn't look like it needed any modification from the scene that it is.
Your meld of flash and natural light is absolutely perfect......and you were punished for it!
LOL!!!
Extremely well done, sir! |
Go figure Jeb, one can only try. Glad at least you and others got it. That to me is good enough. :)
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12/17/2008 09:07:02 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
I was amazed how many people gave this shot a 4 and below. I did this in a bright sunny day with the sun behind her. The light is evenly distributed and no shadows can be seen. I also think it was a nice portrait. I dont get it.
However it managed to get 13th place. So some people thought it meet the challenge and it was a nice photo
1 = 2 votes
2 = 3 votes
3 = 8 votes
4 = 11 votes |
[/i]
Jaime....you have to realize that for some reason every photo gets those low votes. I don't know how they aren't filtered out, but sometimes even the winning photos have 1-4's.....Also, for some odd reason people photos are known not to do very well on DPC (this excludes kids, babies, or portraits in a portrait challenge!). So i think 13th is a great. |
That may be true, but not for all images. I hardly get any 1 votes but my shots aren't up to par to Jaimme's though. So it shows that the trolls target the better images. To me at least. There's one exception to that in my last entry, Fill Flash. I guess some thought Irene was going for the shoehorn and blasted me with one's two's and three's.
Message edited by author 2008-12-17 09:08:01. |
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12/17/2008 09:11:59 AM · #14 |
| Oh and to clarify...i meant portrait type shots...not shots just with people in them. |
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12/17/2008 09:14:00 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I guess some thought Irene was going for the shoehorn and blasted me with one's two's and three's. |
there's the issue right there ... even you realize it was a shoehorn ... your flash is the primary light, doesn't look like there is any 'fill flash' happening at all ... it's a beautiful shot, but really doesn't fit the challenge ... FWIW, I still gave you a 6 ... |
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12/17/2008 09:21:39 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by Jac:
I guess some thought Irene was going for the shoehorn and blasted me with one's two's and three's. |
there's the issue right there ... even you realize it was a shoehorn ... your flash is the primary light, doesn't look like there is any 'fill flash' happening at all ... it's a beautiful shot, but really doesn't fit the challenge ... FWIW, I still gave you a 6 ... |
There was a fill flash used. It was aimed at the drop with a snoot attached. I'm not saying this is a typical fill flash shot but fill flash isn't supposed to be noticed too much and if it is, well, then it becomes the main and doesn't serve its purpose. |
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12/17/2008 09:27:05 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by Jac:
I guess some thought Irene was going for the shoehorn and blasted me with one's two's and three's. |
there's the issue right there ... even you realize it was a shoehorn ... your flash is the primary light, doesn't look like there is any 'fill flash' happening at all ... it's a beautiful shot, but really doesn't fit the challenge ... FWIW, I still gave you a 6 ... |
There was a fill flash used. It was aimed at the drop with a snoot attached. I'm not saying this is a typical fill flash shot but fill flash isn't supposed to be noticed too much and if it is, well, then it becomes the main and doesn't serve its purpose. |
then I stand corrected ... still, it's very hard to tell that there is more than one light ... and I agree that it's not supposed to be noticed very much, but I do think that you should be able to tell that it's there ... I guess to me, fill flash is supposed to fill in the shadows where the primary light is missing, not just be a highlight to draw emphasis to a particular part of the image ... I still maintain that it's a gorgeous shot, personally I had a hard time fitting it into the challenge .. |
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12/17/2008 09:34:28 AM · #18 |
| I know Pam, it was a last minute entry and I hesitated before entering it. My three Before and After shots were crap. After putting all that time into shooting I wanted something to show for it and entered the drop in Fill Flash. I need to stop shooting on the same day the challenge ends. lol |
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12/17/2008 09:45:08 AM · #19 |
Jac in my opinion the voters did get it wrong, but not because they voted low. But because it scored above 6.
I vote first if it meets the challenge, I know many dont, but to me the weekly challenge doesnt mean anything if it doesnt meet the challenge.
Your entry doesnt say fill flash to me at all. Your main light source is the flash(thats how you stopped the drop afterall) I dont see the effects of fill anywhere that indicates it added or was an important part of your composition or photograph. Of course this is just my opinion I could and might be wrong.
Matt
Editing to add I did vote this challenge and I voted your entry a 2. Why? Because to me it didnt meet the challenge and I vote low for entries that I feel dont meet the challenge.
Message edited by author 2008-12-17 09:48:27.
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12/17/2008 09:53:39 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I know Pam, it was a last minute entry and I hesitated before entering it. My three Before and After shots were crap. After putting all that time into shooting I wanted something to show for it and entered the drop in Fill Flash. I need to stop shooting on the same day the challenge ends. lol |
LOL, it probably would have scored really well in the Free Study ... great job with the water drops, something I haven't even come close to getting right yet! |
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