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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> WinXP laptop freezing
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 12/17/2008 08:37:03 AM · #1
**** Thread updated 23 Feb 09 **** - Faulty battery was the issue (see post below)

I have a Thinkpad R60, about 2 years old. It has started freezing at random intervals - mouse stops, ctrl-alt-del doesn't work, no reaction from num lock. The only way to reboot is a hard power-down.

So far I've tried the following;

- Swapped and re-seated memory sticks
- Air blower on inside of machine, tightened screws etc.
- Applied all latest Lenovo and MS updates
- Ran intensive Lenovo diagnostics. Memory checks out okay. However, I am getting this error on the hard drive test;

512 bytes
127 sectors
total sectors 156301488
sector block 135185277 to 135185403 failed verification

By my reckoning, that's only a 64k patch on the hard drive. Could that be causing the freeze-ups?

So my options are;

1) Buy a new hard drive, format, install Vista (or XP)
2) Send it off to Lenovo to troubleshoot / repair (out of warranty)
3) Dump it, buy a cheap laptop - I mean, laptops are fairly disposable these days anyway, don't see any point in spending big money on one anymore.

What would you do? - I don't want to spend money on parts since I'm not 100% sure what the real problem is so could be left with a still-broken laptop. It might even be a motherboard issue.



Message edited by author 2009-02-23 10:59:14.
 12/17/2008 08:41:15 AM · #2
How much RAM do you have? Are you doing anything when the machine freezes? Could be processor is being overworked - that would stop ctl alt del responding.
 12/17/2008 08:44:56 AM · #3
Originally posted by mileskea:
How much RAM do you have? Are you doing anything when the machine freezes? Could be processor is being overworked - that would stop ctl alt del responding.

1Gb ram (this isn't a new laptop, I haven't installed anything new or changed the hardware, it's been the same hardware and software config for 2 years now)

The freeze is totally random, I could be just typing an email, or moving the mouse. I've tried a USB mouse instead of the touchpad, same problem. I've booted in Linux, same problem.

I also ran the intensive CPU load tests in diagnostics, but they were fine. The only diagnostics error I got was that bad hard drive sector.
12/17/2008 08:54:25 AM · #4
Originally posted by JH:
The only diagnostics error I got was that bad hard drive sector.


That sounds like your problem right there...
12/17/2008 08:58:50 AM · #5
Yea, I'm beginning to think that any sign of bad sectors is a sign that the HD is on the way out.

I'll try replacing the HD first. It'll be a $100 investment, but at least then I'll know for sure!

If that doesn't work, then I'll buy a new laptop.
 12/17/2008 09:49:03 AM · #6
doesn't defragging block the bad sectors from attempted access - so the OS doesn't try to write to them... ?


12/17/2008 11:46:35 AM · #7
Assuming it is XP/Vista?

Running a chkdsk will remap the bad sectors. Go either a command prompt or the start/run prompt and type 'chkdsk c: /f/r', and it will carry out a scan on your next boot.

Run it now, and run it again in a week. If it finds more bad sectors the second time around then your drive is on it's way out and you should immediately back everything up in preparation for a permanent crash.
 12/17/2008 12:10:12 PM · #8
Download this free program CCleaner. It is a great program it's a register cleaner and a hard drive cleaner. It has no adware or spyware and I use it to keep my machines running fast and it stopped my sons computer from freezing.
 12/17/2008 01:36:49 PM · #9
chkdsk is what i was trying to think of...

Message edited by author 2008-12-17 13:37:12.
 12/17/2008 01:38:43 PM · #10
Originally posted by soup:
doesn't defragging block the bad sectors from attempted access - so the OS doesn't try to write to them... ?

I tried defrag, the Lenovo hard disk utilities, and chkdsk /r - But apparently (having done some googling) the firmware in modern SATA drives maps bad sectors at the drive level, so the OS never sees them. So in my case when the OS is seeing bad sectors it could indicate a more serious problem with the drive, perhaps the drive head might be crashing or deteriorating.

I have backups, in 4 places. :)

Anyway, I bought a new 120Gb samsung drive for €49 and I'm about to start re-installing the OS - These things are so cheap these days it was hardly worth my while troubleshooting the issue to this degree!
 12/17/2008 01:40:09 PM · #11
Originally posted by SDW:
Download this free program CCleaner. It is a great program it's a register cleaner and a hard drive cleaner. It has no adware or spyware and I use it to keep my machines running fast and it stopped my sons computer from freezing.

Yeah, that's a very useful program, I use it all the time. But in this case I'm also getting the problem booting a Linux LiveCD, so it's not an OS issue - definitely hardware.
 12/17/2008 01:44:01 PM · #12
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by SDW:
Download this free program CCleaner. It is a great program it's a register cleaner and a hard drive cleaner. It has no adware or spyware and I use it to keep my machines running fast and it stopped my sons computer from freezing.

Yeah, that's a very useful program, I use it all the time. But in this case I'm also getting the problem booting a Linux LiveCD, so it's not an OS issue - definitely hardware.

Argh! Now I'm confusing myself and replying to my own posts. If I'm getting the freeze booting from a LiveCD, how can it be a hard disk problem? lol - Anyway, I'll update this thread after the re-install.
 12/17/2008 05:51:31 PM · #13
Replaced the hard drive, and the thing froze-up on the first screen of the system recovery CD. :(

Funny thing is, I just dismantled it and unplugged the touchpad, and it hasn't frozen up yet (still restoring the OS), This is very weird, I've never heard of a touchpad causing random freeze-ups before.
 12/17/2008 06:11:18 PM · #14
remove the CPU cooler, clean off all the old gunky crap from the top of the CPU and the copper heat-sink add new thermal paste and refix. sound to me like a slight over heating prob, you may even want to take the CPU out and blow out the mount and re-seat while you are at it. Watch out as not to bend any pins.
 12/17/2008 09:06:15 PM · #15
Thanks for all the advice here.

I'm pretty sure now that the problem is the touchpad. If I disconnect the touchpad the laptop runs without a hitch for 2-3 hours. But when I connect the touchpad, all I have to do is a small mouse movement on the WinXP login screen and the thing locks up!

So I think that's conclusive. I'll leave the touchpad disconnected. First time I've ever encountered that problem. I'd guess that the touchpad was the main culprit, and the bad sectors on the old drive threw off my diagnosis.
 12/17/2008 09:12:22 PM · #16
Have you looked for an updated driver for the touchpad??? Could be a bad driver.
 12/17/2008 09:23:09 PM · #17
Originally posted by knowvak:
Have you looked for an updated driver for the touchpad??? Could be a bad driver.

I have all Windows drivers up to date.

However, I get the same problem when I boot Linux from a LiveCD (i.e. touchpad detection hangs during boot, or using the touchpad after booting results in a system freeze-up)

The problem also happened when booting into the DOS-based diagnostic programs. Using the touchpad caused the system to freeze.

12/17/2008 09:25:03 PM · #18
Wow that's a new one....Over five years in IT and I've never heard of anything like that before....Good catch.
 02/23/2009 09:03:06 AM · #19
Update for any googlers

After 2 months of random freeze-ups, I discovered what the real issue was: A faulty battery.

Why a faulty battery should be causing crashes I'm not sure, but when I remove the battery I can run the laptop for extended periods off AC without any problems (and with the touchpad working fine!)
 02/23/2009 09:14:07 AM · #20
Yep, that'll do it. A short in the battery will often disrupt the circuit causing the computer to malfunction. I've had to deal with several laptops for people who were facing the same problem. Glad you figured it out!
 02/23/2009 09:22:30 AM · #21
My laptop freezes every time I try to use Winamp and Outlook at the same time. Not sure why, but it does.
 02/23/2009 09:47:04 AM · #22
Thats what was going to suggest. we had a problem with one of our laptops freezing up. I took it out into the garage and blew a ton of dust out of the fans etc with an air hose. Hasn't locked up since. However mention of bad sectors would send me into back up mode and I would be getting a new harddrive ready to go.

Originally posted by MAK:
remove the CPU cooler, clean off all the old gunky crap from the top of the CPU and the copper heat-sink add new thermal paste and refix. sound to me like a slight over heating prob, you may even want to take the CPU out and blow out the mount and re-seat while you are at it. Watch out as not to bend any pins.
02/23/2009 10:44:52 AM · #23
Try using a specialized Windows tuneup/diagnostic tool. The first that comes to mind (and strongly considered one of the best) is called TuneUp Utilities 2009. It can perform a lot of low level maintenance that may help with some of the problems.
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