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12/09/2008 11:07:47 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
...and I will tell you that making comments on all the photographs would be to large of a task...unless it is a small entry. |
You should take a look at Judi's profile ... she has commented on 100% of the photographs in quite a few challenges ... it's really not that hard to do ... |
As one of the proud members of the 100% Comment Army of  Judi - commenting on every entry in a challenge is not a hard thing to do. It takes a bit of time but it is actually one of the best ways to improve your own photography skills - analyzing and critiquing others work to find what works well and doesn't. After i started commenting more, the quality of my work clearly improved... |
I'm also a proud member! I agree 100% that one of the best ways to improve your own photography is to comment, comment and comment some more ... you'll learn far more than you'd think! |
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12/09/2008 11:21:14 AM · #27 |
| ok, if you are all in the 100% comment pile...then why aren't you in my comment cue for the only photo that I entered...not everyone comments on all photos....but I still think they should vote on all photos...and I will repeat...that I want to improve my commenting skills...take a breath... |
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12/09/2008 11:41:27 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Whenever I see people listing what they don't want to see photographed I always ask this question.
Would you make a list for us so we know what items to photograph and what items we shouldn't photograph. Thanks a bunch. :) Maybe you can get the SC to sticky it too. ;| |
It's a moving target. :-)
Really, I was responding more to the personal preference part. It's always going to play a role in influencing votes, whether admitted or not...human nature and all. |
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12/09/2008 11:48:07 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
ok, if you are all in the 100% comment pile...then why aren't you in my comment cue for the only photo that I entered... |
Have to disagree there. I do not feel right leaving a vote of 4 or less on an entry without an explanation. To look at someones entry for 3 seconds and slap a low vote on it without telling them why just rubs me wrong, because I hate it when it is done to me. This makes a 100% comment effort a large time investment for me, and I cannot do it in a freestudy. If I do my 20-25%, and so do others, then the averages will still work out pretty close. Again, I feel the commenting of what I DO vote on is more important than a high vote count.
Message edited by author 2008-12-09 11:49:19. |
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12/09/2008 11:30:56 PM · #30 |
Who said anything about time frames...I do not attach a 3 vote on someone with a 3 second view (that is insulting), maybe you feel like you got a 3 second view...but look at your picture in comparison to the rest....I slap a 3 on someone that doesn't rate a 3 or higher due to their photograph or lack of meeting the challange, it just doesn't stir me...like it or not some of us do not achive a 3 or higher due to our content...someone will have to be top contender and someone will have to be bottom...be it a repeative photo (this will get the fastest 3 or lower vote from me), or just a poor choice of photo....mind you I am still struggling with editing issues....bottom line if you do not vote on all photos you have no room to complain about "where are the voters....hmmm, I wonder why our scores are thus and so....hmmm"...some of you proclaim that you are in the 100% club of comments and/or voting...yet I haven't had any comments from you "until after I pointed it out to you" that you didn't comment on my one and only picture, thus if you had commented on my photo (before) as you claim your comment score to be 100%, it is history, well they just aren't there...thus you don't vote 100%...so do not say you are voting 100% when you are not.....much less commenting on 100%....the votes can not be verified but the comments can....thou I do not like to make a vote of 4 or lower...some deserve it...there are no guidelines as to how vote...it is in the view of "my eyes...." like it or not that is the translation of what I view....and maybe my current vote of 5.1667 is a 10 in some eyes....just be glad there are some of us out here that are voting 100%...if we all go away...what would happen...hmmm....so vote.....and comment...I can see what someone gets when they just want a little advice on commenting....withdraw you claws...
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12/09/2008 11:42:15 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
I have read several threads that "complain" and "whine" about people not voting and commenting...since I have joined (sep 08, not long ago) I have voted on all challenges (can you say the same), and I am amazed at how many do not vote, but I find it hard to comment on the photographs, it is easy with the ones that I like. But the ones that I don't like or find offensive or repetative are so hard to comment on...I try to comment, on my top picks, although I find it hard to comment on my least favorite ones (as I am afraid I will offend someone), do you have any words of wisdom here???? And with all the whining about no one voting,...if you enter a photo...vote...if everyone that enters votes, plus all the others that vote...we would blast them out of the water and if you don't vote shut-up (said in the kindest of ways...hmmm)....that is my 2 cents on the subject... |
For starters...your average vote cast is 3.9146 for 6,619 entries. That's a pretty low vote average. So obviously many of the images offend you! If you find them so offensive....why don't you say so in your comment? I noticed you do with some...but 160 comments from 6,619 entries is a pretty low ratio....and yet you say that you find it easy to comment on the ones you like...so obviously there aren't many photos on DPC that you like...especially when that 160 comments is covering both good and bad images in your eyes. Yes....I read your comments and some of them are obviously on images that you don't like!
My husband and I were only discussing this problem earlier. And it should be easy enough for a programmer to write a programme that scrubs all votes 3 or lower that are not accompanied by a comment. This would not only encourage people to say what they don't like about the photo...but would also discourage people from low voting for alternative reasons...ie, making their own score higher placed at the end...prejudice voting, such as flowers or nudity or puppies etc...when realistically they should be voting on whether the image meets the challenge and/or is a technically sound image.
Just my two cents worth. |
Well, I was looking too...and my 6,619 votes are for 3 months....in 3 more months I will have more votes than you have in an average year...as to my average voting score...I am presently working on that I have been bumping around on the voting scale and I think I am getting more comfortable with that. I look at the challange...did they meet the challange, how do I like the photograph. But, I still say each of us should vote on all entries (not just the required 20%). I have gotten some great advice from this thread regarding a closer look at the middle range and making comments on those and looking for what makes them medium to me, and not feeling bad about telling someone that I just don't like their photograph, now that is advice I can put to use and what I was looking for...I will be doing that in the future...when I joined in Sep...I didn't feel comfortable making any comments (thus the low comments number)...what I want to do is make more comments and do a good job with it...not sit here with a drink and insult people.... I just wanted to hear from ya'll on how you process and make your comments...and I will tell you that making comments on all the photographs would be to large of a task...unless it is a small entry. |
I run a very busy life. Maybe you do too....I have no idea. I personally cannot vote on all the challenges...I just don't have the time. But when I do have the time...I go through and comment on as many, if not all, the entries that I can. A vote helps determine the final score...but a comment can sometimes help a person achieve a higher score in future challenges. I know which one I would prefer!!!!
And when I do vote...95% of the challenges receive a 100% vote from me. So get off your high horse and realise that you are not the only one who has entered an image in a challenge and that there are people here from many walks of life...they do what they can. If you want to change it...then start by doing something constructive. It's great that you vote on all the challenges...but how about stop whinging about not receiving comments...and go and give some out to others. You would be surprised by how many would return the favour.
I am not here to start a fight...but I will not allow others who try their darndest to be belittled by someone who votes low and whinges when they don't get comments.
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12/09/2008 11:48:01 PM · #32 |
OK
The 100% Comment club (which I am a member) means that in a challenge, you commented on all photographs entered in that Challenge. As a result, there is recognition in the form of a thread, and also on your profile page
It doesn't mean that we comment on All photos entered in all challenges, or on all photos we vote on. It just means that for the week a challenge was in voting, we had enough time to comment all of the images.
For example, I have only commented on about 25% of the current Straight Challenge (and also have only voted on 25%)
Some challenges I don't vote at all.
Some I vote and only leave a few comments (due to time)
Some I try and do the lot (hence the 100% comments).
It is rare for someone to 100% comment a free study. 400+ Images, a minimum of a minute (for me at least) per image to properly comment. That works out at a minimum of almost 7 hours. At the moment, that ain't happening. Some people comment with 2 or 3 words, I don't, so it is a MASSIVE time investment.
I always encourage those who complain about the lack of comments to spend some time and comment on other photos in their challenge. As a result, hopefully you will all get extra comments....... |
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12/10/2008 12:10:23 AM · #33 |
| ok, I guess I'm just not getting your math...to me 100% comment means...you comment on all...not 25%, (this does not translate to 100% in anyway)...but to say you comment on 100% means "all" to me. Either it is 100% or 25%...and my "whining" is that those that are "claiming to be in the 100% comment club...." just aren't....I agree that it is way to much to comment on all...but vote I will....as we all should....I recently saw on a challage with 414 entries and the top choice only got 162 votes...that is pathetic. We need to vote and comment...I am working on the commenting...but it is coming along...oh, no 309 more votes and comments to make....come one let's do it... |
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12/10/2008 12:19:03 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
ok, I guess I'm just not getting your math...to me 100% comment means...you comment on all...not 25%, (this does not translate to 100% in anyway)...but to say you comment on 100% means "all" to me. Either it is 100% or 25%...and my "whining" is that those that are "claiming to be in the 100% comment club...." just aren't....I agree that it is way to much to comment on all...but vote I will....as we all should....I recently saw on a challage with 414 entries and the top choice only got 162 votes...that is pathetic. We need to vote and comment...I am working on the commenting...but it is coming along...oh, no 309 more votes and comments to make....come one let's do it... |
100% comments means you comment on all available entries in ONE challenge.
Please read things properly. The poster you are referring to states that they can't always get the time to comment on 100% of photos in ONE challenge. But at least they still try. They only get a ribbon when they do successfully complete a challenge...by commenting on ALL available entries.
I think you would benefit greatly by trying it. I would love to award you a ribbon. You will find you will learn so much from your comments....even on the repetitive and offensive images.....'in your eyes'. Actually...while I think of it....didn't you ever see an image that you liked and thought you would try it...even though you haven't tried that type of photography before...and weren't you proud of your accomplishment. Well by voting low on an image purely for 'repetitive' reasons...is not doing the image any justice!!
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12/10/2008 12:35:24 AM · #35 |
Thanks Judi. I thought I explained it well, but obviously not quite clear enough.
Ja-9, I am in the 100% Comments Club because I commented on
100% of images in the Immovable Challenge
100% of images in the Where in the World is Art Raflmao? Challenge
Judi on the other hand has 5 of these (and one for a Challenge with 600+ entries.)
These are visable on our Profile Pages, and details on this are in the 100% Comments Club Thread.
And some people do not get time to vote on every image, especially the large challenges. If I have an hour, I can vote and comment on 50 or so, or fly through, give each photo 3 seconds, and give votes based ont hat. I would prefer to spend time rather than vote on a quick glance............ |
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12/10/2008 12:45:52 AM · #36 |
| to be blunt - threads like these may intimidate newcomers because it gives the appearance that the site does not welcome people who dont leave comments or dont vote. |
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12/10/2008 08:42:56 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by crayon:
to be blunt - threads like these may intimidate newcomers because it gives the appearance that the site does not welcome people who dont leave comments or dont vote. |
A valid point. Many newcomers don't feel qualified to be critical of others work and it takes some time to become comfortable with the idea. If someone simply wants to participate in the forums and maybe a side challenge, that's fine too. |
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12/10/2008 09:01:49 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Jac:
Whenever I see people listing what they don't want to see photographed I always ask this question.
Would you make a list for us so we know what items to photograph and what items we shouldn't photograph. Thanks a bunch. :) Maybe you can get the SC to sticky it too. ;| |
It's a moving target. :-)
Really, I was responding more to the personal preference part. It's always going to play a role in influencing votes, whether admitted or not...human nature and all. |
Sorry G, this was directed at the OP. :) |
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12/10/2008 09:48:59 AM · #39 |
Well, speaking as a newcomer...i always expect to receive comments, positive or negative. Sometimes i like the "bad" comments more than the "good" ones, because as a newcomer, i really want to learn from the older ones, hehe.
I'm missing the Critique club comment at my photos, because i selected the option to have their critics and received none.
Speaking about commenting other people photos...i enjoy commenting and when i give low scores i try to explain why, and help the person with my little experience (like the advices of DP say) , i have been marked as helpfull in some comments, and i feel happy with that, because i see that the person didn't take it bad.
Question: When you receive comments, you mark all of them as helpfull (because some people do) or just the ones that really helped you? Is it rude not to mark the ones that say good things about your photo but doesn't give you any advice? |
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12/10/2008 10:02:59 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by pedrobop:
Well, speaking as a newcomer...i always expect to receive comments, positive or negative. Sometimes i like the "bad" comments more than the "good" ones, because as a newcomer, i really want to learn from the older ones, hehe.
I'm missing the Critique club comment at my photos, because i selected the option to have their critics and received none.
Speaking about commenting other people photos...i enjoy commenting and when i give low scores i try to explain why, and help the person with my little experience (like the advices of DP say) , i have been marked as helpfull in some comments, and i feel happy with that, because i see that the person didn't take it bad.
Question: When you receive comments, you mark all of them as helpfull (because some people do) or just the ones that really helped you? Is it rude not to mark the ones that say good things about your photo but doesn't give you any advice? |
No it isn't rude. Some mark them all helpful but that's a personal choice. I don't mark the ones I find offensive or very mean, all the rest get the helpful checkmark. |
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12/10/2008 10:09:12 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by pedrobop:
Question: When you receive comments, you mark all of them as helpfull (because some people do) or just the ones that really helped you? Is it rude not to mark the ones that say good things about your photo but doesn't give you any advice? |
I usually mark them all as helpful, mostly as an acknowledgment that they have been read. It also allows me to tell if a certain user has updated their comment or vote during a challenge, if I find the checkbox has been cleared. When I revisit an entry after a challenge, I don't know my comments have even been seen unless the photographer has checked it.
The real way I know if my comments are helpful is the occasional PM thanking me and/or asking for clarification. Those are really what encourages me to comment more.
Once in a great while, I have not marked it as helpful, but that is a rare case.
Message edited by author 2008-12-10 10:10:17. |
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12/10/2008 10:13:24 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by pedrobop:
Well, speaking as a newcomer...i always expect to receive comments, positive or negative. Sometimes i like the "bad" comments more than the "good" ones, because as a newcomer, i really want to learn from the older ones, hehe.
I'm missing the Critique club comment at my photos, because i selected the option to have their critics and received none.
Speaking about commenting other people photos...i enjoy commenting and when i give low scores i try to explain why, and help the person with my little experience (like the advices of DP say) , i have been marked as helpfull in some comments, and i feel happy with that, because i see that the person didn't take it bad.
Question: When you receive comments, you mark all of them as helpfull (because some people do) or just the ones that really helped you? Is it rude not to mark the ones that say good things about your photo but doesn't give you any advice? |
I mark them all helpful. Here's why:
I feel like every comment helps me in some way. "This is crap on a stick." That is helpful. It shows me that someone obviously felt my photo sucked badly. Even though I wish they would have told me WHAT they didn't like about it, at least I know that someone out there thought it wasn't good and I should spend some time with it to try and figure out why.
"Nice shot." That is helpful too. It tells me that my photo is pretty but not amazing, nice but not wonderful.
"This seems a bit soft." Well, I need to work on my focus.
"Your lighting is good, focus is good, but something about the composition is off and the photo isn't really speaking to me." Well, my photo is almost technically sound but I seem to be missing a connection with the viewer and might want to re-think the way I frame things.
my $20.00 worth. :)
To the OP: When you make a comment, if you want to make excellent comments that help the photographer in question get better, look at each aspect of the shot and comment on it. Especially those that you are voting lower as those photographers need your help more than the ones you vote 10s on. Colour, light, focus, composition, if the photograph 'speaks' to you, and if it meets the challenge. I think you may find things in the photographs that you are missing on first view if you sit and truly try to critique it with all of those options in mind :) |
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12/10/2008 10:26:36 AM · #43 |
Personally I mark comments that have put in effort, best shown with examples.
Note, these are made up examples and in no way are meant to refer to or suggest any relation to any pre-existing or further comment on mine or any other photographers photos.
Helpful examples:
"Your lighting is good but the background ruins this completely."
"I love this shot." - borderline but helpful since it is encouraging me to keep entering.
"I like the angle you used for this shot. It looks like the person is about to crush you."
"This entry is a hoot, I haven't laughed that hard in years."
"I wish you would have tried this with a blue light instead."
"This shot is boring, it doesn't really capture me, not colorful, just kind of average, sorry."
"Too much red!"
"Needs sharpening badly."
"Cute model, ugly dog."
Not Helpful examples:
"Why did you even bother entering if this was your best shot, you are wasting everyone's time."
"This sucks, 1"
"The challenge is Fish of The Sea and you entered a picture of tuna sandwich? I mean, I get the connection, but I don't consider this a fish, and I don't see the ocean, it is food. DNMC." - tuna is a fish, they are applying a standard unrealistically high
"I haven't calibrated my monitor but this looks way too dark for me."
"This would have looked better if you would have put more effort into it. Next time don't wait until last minute." - this person has no knowledge of the effort or time this shot took and just assumes it was a hack job.
"DNMC!"
"no"
But this is just my personal system, everyone has their own. Probably going to kick off a war because I used specifics. :P
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12/10/2008 10:32:05 AM · #44 |
| But I could turn a positive look on each of the examples you give as "unhelpful" and gain something from each one. I suppose it's just in the way you interpret them. Everyone interprets things differently, I suppose. :) |
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12/10/2008 10:39:44 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
But I could turn a positive look on each of the examples you give as "unhelpful" and gain something from each one. I suppose it's just in the way you interpret them. Everyone interprets things differently, I suppose. :) |
Aye, at one time I took them as helpful, yays or nays but then I decided that is what the score tells me and the comments are for things other than numbers. A joke, some advice, or insight into what went right or what failed. :)
But I'm cool with other peoples systems and thank you for being so friendly about it JoJo. :)
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12/10/2008 10:50:03 AM · #46 |
Janine, if you want, we could both comment together on a small challenge that is running right now, i think there are 70 odd shots. And then the ones that you are stuck on, I can tell you what I think about the shot, so you can see a different aspect and see what others may or may not be seeing as well.
It's up to you |
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12/10/2008 10:52:32 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by kaiser_chief:
Thanks Judi. I thought I explained it well, but obviously not quite clear enough.
Ja-9, I am in the 100% Comments Club because I commented on
100% of images in the Immovable Challenge
100% of images in the Where in the World is Art Raflmao? Challenge
Judi on the other hand has 5 of these (and one for a Challenge with 600+ entries.)
These are visable on our Profile Pages, and details on this are in the 100% Comments Club Thread.
And some people do not get time to vote on every image, especially the large challenges. If I have an hour, I can vote and comment on 50 or so, or fly through, give each photo 3 seconds, and give votes based ont hat. I would prefer to spend time rather than vote on a quick glance............ |
ahhh, now I get it...sorry I appoligize all around...I did not understand how you got those ribbons at all and I didn't understand what you were refering to with the 100% Commment Club....dummy me, thought it was just something you tagged each other with...I thought you had to vote/comment 100% all the time...sorry, sorry, sorry...I don't even know how to implant someone's icon into a message, much less a photograph....wish there was a welcome package to explain these things to us newbee's....guess I will just shut up....I will just continue to try to figure this out...later.... |
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12/10/2008 10:53:32 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Janine, if you want, we could both comment together on a small challenge that is running right now, i think there are 70 odd shots. And then the ones that you are stuck on, I can tell you what I think about the shot, so you can see a different aspect and see what others may or may not be seeing as well.
It's up to you |
how would you do this???? once again...computer dummy here... |
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12/10/2008 10:56:04 AM · #49 |
Well, if you are stuck on a shot and have no idea what to say, you could email me the title, I will look at it, I will tell you what I wrote and you can see it from my point of view. In doing that, you may see something that I do not and pick up on that.
And as an added bonus, you will get to join the 100% comment club cos you commented on all the photos in that one challenge.
I will not vote in this challenge, just comment. |
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12/10/2008 10:56:18 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
I don't even know how to implant someone's icon into a message, much less a photograph....wish there was a welcome package to explain these things to us newbee's....guess I will just shut up....I will just continue to try to figure this out...later.... |
Don't beat yourself up, this is a learning site much more than a challenge site. No one knows everything here and we all have something to learn, even the ribbon winners.
Be well Janine. |
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