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11/27/2008 10:16:31 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by photodude:
It's time to implement MUTUAL ASSURED RETALIATION. We should find out where each of the suicide shooters/bombers come from and just level their villages and towns taking all of their relatives, friends and neighbors out as well. Some would say thats not fair, but next time someone is living next door to Ahmad who they know is planning some sort of attack, they will step up and do what they have to do to stop it, because Ahmad is going to get them killed.
This would work in the same way that Mutual Assured Destruction kept the US and USSR from engaging in nuclear war for 45 years. |
And presumably you would accept the counterproposition that they be entitled to level any village, town, or city within the US from which they perceive a terrorist to have emanated?
Or are you talking about MutuallyAssured Retalation for them? Or to put it another way, tyranny. |
In the US, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, if I reported him - he would be arrested and imprisoned. We don't tolerate that here.
In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death.
If the terrorists neighbor realized that the terrorists actions will get him killed, the attitude and behavior will immediately change. |
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11/27/2008 10:29:56 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by photodude:
In the US, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, if I reported him - he would be arrested and imprisoned. We don't tolerate that here.
In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death.
If the terrorists neighbor realized that the terrorists actions will get him killed, the attitude and behavior will immediately change. |
... Nothing like random generalizations to substantiate an argument.
I find it both sad and reprehensible that your twisted logic enables you to not only believe this balderdash, but that you earnestly believe it warrants being shared with the populace at large.
Hopefully, this line of thinking represents only the fringe elements.
Ray |
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11/27/2008 10:30:06 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by photodude:
It's time to implement MUTUAL ASSURED RETALIATION. We should find out where each of the suicide shooters/bombers come from and just level their villages and towns taking all of their relatives, friends and neighbors out as well. Some would say thats not fair, but next time someone is living next door to Ahmad who they know is planning some sort of attack, they will step up and do what they have to do to stop it, because Ahmad is going to get them killed.
This would work in the same way that Mutual Assured Destruction kept the US and USSR from engaging in nuclear war for 45 years. |
And presumably you would accept the counterproposition that they be entitled to level any village, town, or city within the US from which they perceive a terrorist to have emanated?
Or are you talking about MutuallyAssured Retalation for them? Or to put it another way, tyranny. |
In the US, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, if I reported him - he would be arrested and imprisoned. We don't tolerate that here.
In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death.
If the terrorists neighbor realized that the terrorists actions will get him killed, the attitude and behavior will immediately change. |
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11/27/2008 10:32:01 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by photodude:
In the US, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, if I reported him - he would be arrested and imprisoned. We don't tolerate that here.
In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death.
If the terrorists neighbor realized that the terrorists actions will get him killed, the attitude and behavior will immediately change. |
... Nothing like random generalizations to substantiate an argument.
I find it both sad and reprehensible that your twisted logic enables you to not only believe this balderdash, but that you earnestly believe it warrants being shared with the populace at large.
Hopefully, this line of thinking represents only the fringe elements.
Ray |
No Ray, I live in NY. Just tired of being a target of a terrorist cult and tired of playing defense. |
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11/27/2008 10:36:01 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Hopefully, this line of thinking represents only the fringe elements.
Ray |
No Ray, I live in NY. Just tired of being a target of a terrorist cult and tired of playing defense. [/quote]
I *think* Ray was referring to the Islamic fringe elements, not YOU. That is, he doesn't believe (nor do I) that "most" people in "most" Islamic countries think the way you claimed they do in your generalization:
"In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death."
R. |
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11/27/2008 12:06:14 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by photodude:
Hopefully, this line of thinking represents only the fringe elements.
Ray |
No Ray, I live in NY. Just tired of being a target of a terrorist cult and tired of playing defense. |
I *think* Ray was referring to the Islamic fringe elements, not YOU. That is, he doesn't believe (nor do I) that "most" people in "most" Islamic countries think the way you claimed they do in your generalization:
"In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death."
R. [/quote]
Bear, I actually think that's a fair generalization. Not that most would actually participate in the terrorist act, but that they do accept and condone it. |
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11/27/2008 12:26:14 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Bear, I actually think that's a fair generalization. Not that most would actually participate in the terrorist act, but that they do accept and condone it. |
How can you say that? Do you have any research/sources to back that up? I find it very hard to believe. I'm willing to accept this may be the case in *some* Islamic countries, but I can't believe it's true for *most* of them.
R.
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11/27/2008 01:50:58 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by photodude:
In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death. |
You're assuming that the terrorists are planning their attacks openly enough to allow for their neighbors' awareness. Don't these folks generally operate in a very secretive fashion?
In any event, war of any kind, state-sponsored or otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, is just terrorism by another name. How many wars have been fought "cleanly", so to speak, where one state's army met another state's army on a well-defined battlefield and protected all civilians from harm? |
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11/27/2008 02:28:43 PM · #34 |
Well, I think Americans are gun-toting, bible-thumping, gay-bashing bigots who would love nothing better than to kick out everyone not a white, straight Christian redneck, then build a defended wall around their country to keep them out.
Nah, I have no basis for this belief other than a few media examples of extremists, but it's much easier to accept these few as the norm than to make an effort to know and understand what the majority are really like.
Besides, I need somebody outside my own country to blindly hate. It makes it so much easier to rally around the flag and forget that my own country isn't perfect.
(for the obtuse, please note the sarcasm.) |
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11/27/2008 02:32:09 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Well, I think Americans are gun-toting, bible-thumping, gay-bashing bigots who would love nothing better than to kick out everyone not a white, straight Christian redneck, then build a defended wall around their country to keep them out.
Nah, I have no basis for this belief other than a few media examples of extremists, but it's much easier to accept these few as the norm than to make an effort to know and understand what the majority are really like.
Besides, I need somebody outside my own country to blindly hate. It makes it so much easier to rally around the flag and forget that my own country isn't perfect.
(for the obtuse, please note the sarcasm.) |
:D. thats hilarious |
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11/27/2008 04:41:20 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by photodude:
Bear, I actually think that's a fair generalization. Not that most would actually participate in the terrorist act, but that they do accept and condone it. |
How can you say that? Do you have any research/sources to back that up? I find it very hard to believe. I'm willing to accept this may be the case in *some* Islamic countries, but I can't believe it's true for *most* of them.
R. |
And the Islamic countries with moderate POPULATIONS (as opposed to governments) are? |
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11/27/2008 05:37:35 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by photodude:
It's time to implement MUTUAL ASSURED RETALIATION. We should find out where each of the suicide shooters/bombers come from and just level their villages and towns taking all of their relatives, friends and neighbors out as well. Some would say thats not fair, but next time someone is living next door to Ahmad who they know is planning some sort of attack, they will step up and do what they have to do to stop it, because Ahmad is going to get them killed.
This would work in the same way that Mutual Assured Destruction kept the US and USSR from engaging in nuclear war for 45 years. |
On this basis, areas of Leeds and Bradford, London and Leicester will all suffer from levelling as terrorists have all resided in these places. Many of the terrorists are British citizens so we must be responsible for their actions and I am sure there could have been neighbours or friends living nearby who had suspicions or even knew about their plans. Of course, the majority of the local population had no ideas what they were up to but it seems they are guilty by reason of living nearby and so their lives should be forfeit. Luckily, I live just outside the areas to be levelled but can you please tell me how to identify terrorists or radical thinkers who may be planning something, so when I finally manage to sell my house, I can stay safe from your Mutual Assured Destruction?
PS This advice could also be useful to the innocent people of other countries who do not condone terrorist actions but just happen to live nearby .
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11/27/2008 08:56:26 PM · #38 |
Pretty monstrous ideas floating around in this thread unless you believe that sowing the seeds of a Nuclear Holocaust is a good idea.. It's no wonder why we Americans are so popular these days and slowly becoming a Third World Nation.
Having worked in The World Trade Center and around Ground Zero on and off for the last 20 years I consider myself a target. Or at least I parade around in some qualified, prime target zones. I ride the subways, take the bridges and tunnels and even knowing that something could happen at any moment, with some level of mental discomfort, still I believe we should take a more mindful approach to the issue of terrorism and in the long run I would be safer.
Americans are so scared and unbearably righteous they can't seem to figure out a better way of handling things outside of flailing. It appears that fear, anger and hatred have trumped logic and our ability to reason.
Since flattening the entire Middle East and other parts of the world with extremists ISN'T an option maybe we should try something new. Be prepared to go ALL the way if you choose the "bomb the shit out of them" approach and keep in mind Russia and China might want to play along, as well. Make sure you annihilate Pakistan first because if they go on the offensive defense, the fire will fly. Rolling those dice will also lose us friends and any support we have from the rest of the civilized world. We have business interests and investments all over the globe, let's not forget about them. Those institutions and partnerships will crumble...quite literally. So again, be prepared to go ALL the way. Things could get pretty lonely.
Keep in mind a good deal of the surge's success in Iraq is due the fact that we've been paying off local tribal leaders in return for them not killing us. Money talks. Spread the love with dollars.
Maybe if we stop snorting Dorito dust and spend more time trying to understand the problems of the world, we might have a chance.
Message edited by author 2008-11-28 09:07:14. |
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11/27/2008 09:31:11 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Pretty monstrous ideas floating around in this thread. |
Dwarfed only by the monstrous levels of ignorance. Good god people. |
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11/27/2008 09:48:35 PM · #40 |
Incidentally, the situation in Mumbai is ongoing (over 24 hours later) - There are reports of explosion and gunfire, and commandos have just stormed the Jewish center in an attempt to free some hostages.
What scares me about this is the change in tactics. Send 20 or so well-armed men into the middle of a city, tell them to fan out, and start shooting. It's a form of urban warfare that's particularly difficult to defend against. |
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11/27/2008 11:24:02 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by photodude:
It's time to implement MUTUAL ASSURED RETALIATION. We should find out where each of the suicide shooters/bombers come from and just level their villages and towns taking all of their relatives, friends and neighbors out as well. Some would say thats not fair, but next time someone is living next door to Ahmad who they know is planning some sort of attack, they will step up and do what they have to do to stop it, because Ahmad is going to get them killed.
This would work in the same way that Mutual Assured Destruction kept the US and USSR from engaging in nuclear war for 45 years. |
And presumably you would accept the counterproposition that they be entitled to level any village, town, or city within the US from which they perceive a terrorist to have emanated?
Or are you talking about MutuallyAssured Retalation for them? Or to put it another way, tyranny. |
In the US, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, if I reported him - he would be arrested and imprisoned. We don't tolerate that here.
In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death.
If the terrorists neighbor realized that the terrorists actions will get him killed, the attitude and behavior will immediately change. |
PD...your bigotry is sickening. Am I right to assume you have never held a meaningful conversation with someone who practices Islam? If you had I can't imagine you would still be holding on to such vile and just plain ignorant sentiments and "solutions". Some of the kindest, good and honest people I have met are Muslim. One fellow I talked to is at a loss as to how to assure people such as yourself he is not going to blow them up or is a member of some sleeper cell. He is also Pakistani...a double whammy. He is tired of the suspicious leering and whispering he encounters. And for goodness sake, my brother-in-law, who is from India and a practicing Hindu has been pulled over right here in Tennessee and asked by the cop..."you one of them terrorists?" based solely on his appearance. Talk about feeling disenfranchised, and the garbage from the "fringe" American Right during the latest political campaign certainly didn't help. Bigotry and racism should never be tolerated...never.
And as Matthew mentioned...shall we start implementing this "solution" here in the states? Let's start with anywhere Timothy McVeigh lived. Then we'll move on the every town where there's been a school shooting. After that let's take on the gangs. Heck, if we blow away everywhere that has a problem with gang violence...no more gang violence yes? Oh but wait, the terrorist's from 9-11 were living right here in the USA making their plans so we gotta take care of those neighborhoods too. For God's sake our own government didn't catch these guys before they implemented their attack...what makes you think you could?! And lets not leave out all those extremists who have blow up abortion clinics and doctor's offices right here in the USA. Pretty soon there won't be many people left.
But if it makes us feel safer...what the hell right?
Violence and hatred beget more violence and hatred. It is never ever a solution.
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11/28/2008 04:59:01 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by RKT:
snip... For God's sake our own government didn't catch these guys before they implemented their attack...what makes you think you could?!
Violence and hatred beget more violence and hatred. It is never ever a solution. |
Well, obviously we should be watching for a very realistic self-portrait from Photodude in the "super-powers" challenge. |
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11/28/2008 07:40:08 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by RKT:
[quote=photodude]
But if it makes us feel safer...what the hell right?
Violence and hatred beget more violence and hatred. It is never ever a solution. |
On the drug war, let's hit Mexico. Flatten the joint...drug problem solved.
Hmmmm...but then, where would we get our Dorito's chips with Piccante Sauce?
Message edited by author 2008-11-28 07:55:46. |
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11/28/2008 08:23:53 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
On the drug war, let's hit Mexico. Flatten the joint...drug problem solved.
Hmmmm...but then, where would we get our Dorito's chips with Piccante Sauce? |
C'mon Steve, that's just WRONG and you know it! Doritos are American; it's the FRITOS that are Mexican. And the "Piccante" sauce is just plain illiterate...
R. (with tongue planted as firmly in his cheek as yours is in YOURS) |
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11/28/2008 08:48:57 AM · #45 |
| Love the fundamentalist, hate the fundamentalism! |
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11/28/2008 08:56:30 AM · #46 |
| I'm still trying to figure out when fascism and patriotism became the same thing in some parts of this country, when a vast majority of it's citizens are from somewhere else? |
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11/28/2008 09:13:56 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by RKT:
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by photodude:
It's time to implement MUTUAL ASSURED RETALIATION. We should find out where each of the suicide shooters/bombers come from and just level their villages and towns taking all of their relatives, friends and neighbors out as well. Some would say thats not fair, but next time someone is living next door to Ahmad who they know is planning some sort of attack, they will step up and do what they have to do to stop it, because Ahmad is going to get them killed.
This would work in the same way that Mutual Assured Destruction kept the US and USSR from engaging in nuclear war for 45 years. |
And presumably you would accept the counterproposition that they be entitled to level any village, town, or city within the US from which they perceive a terrorist to have emanated?
Or are you talking about MutuallyAssured Retalation for them? Or to put it another way, tyranny. |
In the US, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, if I reported him - he would be arrested and imprisoned. We don't tolerate that here.
In many if not all Islamic countries, if my next door neighbor was planning a terrorist attack and making bombs, he would be revered and praised and martyred after death.
If the terrorists neighbor realized that the terrorists actions will get him killed, the attitude and behavior will immediately change. |
PD...your bigotry is sickening. Am I right to assume you have never held a meaningful conversation with someone who practices Islam? If you had I can't imagine you would still be holding on to such vile and just plain ignorant sentiments and "solutions". Some of the kindest, good and honest people I have met are Muslim. One fellow I talked to is at a loss as to how to assure people such as yourself he is not going to blow them up or is a member of some sleeper cell. He is also Pakistani...a double whammy. He is tired of the suspicious leering and whispering he encounters. And for goodness sake, my brother-in-law, who is from India and a practicing Hindu has been pulled over right here in Tennessee and asked by the cop..."you one of them terrorists?" based solely on his appearance. Talk about feeling disenfranchised, and the garbage from the "fringe" American Right during the latest political campaign certainly didn't help. Bigotry and racism should never be tolerated...never.
And as Matthew mentioned...shall we start implementing this "solution" here in the states? Let's start with anywhere Timothy McVeigh lived. Then we'll move on the every town where there's been a school shooting. After that let's take on the gangs. Heck, if we blow away everywhere that has a problem with gang violence...no more gang violence yes? Oh but wait, the terrorist's from 9-11 were living right here in the USA making their plans so we gotta take care of those neighborhoods too. For God's sake our own government didn't catch these guys before they implemented their attack...what makes you think you could?! And lets not leave out all those extremists who have blow up abortion clinics and doctor's offices right here in the USA. Pretty soon there won't be many people left.
But if it makes us feel safer...what the hell right?
Violence and hatred beget more violence and hatred. It is never ever a solution. |
Yeah, its been reassuring hearing the repsonse coming from mainstream Islam the past few days expressing their outrage about the actions of a few radicals who dont represent them or their "faith", and they would all work dilligently to eradicate this begavior.
Actually we havent heard a sound from them. The silence is deafening. Again the only way to stop this is to introduce the CERTAINTY of overwhelming retaliation. The message is you leave us alone and we leave you alone. But screw with us and we will bury you. I have not heard another viable solution in this thread. |
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11/28/2008 09:17:55 AM · #48 |
viable: capable of working successfully; feasible
Tricky word. |
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11/28/2008 09:25:28 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Again the only way to stop this is to introduce the CERTAINTY of overwhelming retaliation. The message is you leave us alone and we leave you alone. But screw with us and we will bury you. I have not heard another viable solution in this thread. |
This is 100% unadulterated BULLSH*T... Bring it back to me the day Western interests have completely withdrawn from the Middle East and left its affairs in the hands of the native peoples. We (the Western world) have been abusing and manipulating the Middle Eastern states for our own profit since oil became the dominant fuel of the technological revolution, and Christians (primarily the Catholic church) have been persecuting followers of Islam a heck of a lot longer than that. So wouldn't you say, in the context of your statement above, that it's up to US to show good faith by first "leaving them alone"?
I'm not saying any of the above justifies terrorism, not at all, but your statement is absolutely absurd when viewed in a historical context.
R.
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11/28/2008 11:39:18 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by photodude:
I have not heard another viable solution in this thread. |
Viable...did you say viable. If you honestly believe that your rantings are viable I guess we should thank our stars that you aren't in a position of authority.
Study history... you might learn about causes and effects and just what leads individuals to act in this manner.
Ray |
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