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12/09/2003 07:54:47 AM · #26 |
The original request for proof was sent at 10am ET on December 4th. The user logged in to DPC several times during the next 24 hours. At 12noon on December 5th, a second request for proof was submitted as a courtesy. This one specifically noted that failure to supply the unedited, camera original would result in the picture being DQ'd. Again, the user logged in to DPC many times during the next few days. We waited until 10pm on December 8th before finally DQ'ing the photo. That means the user had well over 4 days to see and respond to two different emails.
And yes, the original 1st and 3rd place entries had previously been validated.
And it is currently under discussion amongst the Site Council to begin requesting proof on various challenge entries to ensure compliance with the rules. This might be especially important during the open challenges in December in case somebody gets "confused" about which challenges they are allowed less-restrictive editing rules.
So if you get a request for proof, don't panic... simply supply the required file and everything will be fine.
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 07:56:55. |
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12/09/2003 08:02:37 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
So if you get a request for proof, don't panic... simply supply the required file and everything will be fine. |
I've a question about this.
Does the site council accept RAW files or only files which have been converted into TIFF or JPEG?
Recently, I had a DQ request and had serious problems trying to post a 9mb RAW file.
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12/09/2003 08:03:39 AM · #28 |
| What if he never received the request? For some strange reason, all the e.mails I receive from DPC (but not the PM from users) I find on my bulk mail. I have it set to delete after 30 days but I could choose to delete right after receiving. What if the same thing happened to him? |
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12/09/2003 08:18:52 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Does the site council accept RAW files or only files which have been converted into TIFF or JPEG? |
We prefer JPEGs. I know that in the case of the 10D/300D, even when shooting in RAW the camera still embeds an actual camera-generated JPEG in the raw file that can be extracted using software supplied with the camera. This can be sent as "proof", since it will also contain all of the EXIF data from the shot.
If that is impossible, special arrangements can be made to email the file instead of using the automated web interface, although we much prefer the latter.
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 08:28:34. |
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12/09/2003 08:22:12 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by amazoneea:
What if he never received the request? For some strange reason, all the e.mails I receive from DPC (but not the PM from users) I find on my bulk mail. I have it set to delete after 30 days but I could choose to delete right after receiving. What if the same thing happened to him? |
Not every eventuality can be foreseen. If messages were sent and not "bounced", the site council/administration must assume that they were recieved. If you have a photo in a challenge, you need to be aware of the possibility of a DQ request and monitor e-mail. I've only had one, and nearly missed the response deadline due to travel/not checking e-mail. Since then I'm a bit obsessive about monitoring my e-mail when I have a photo entered, even when I'm on the road (like, half the time!).
It is a tough lesson to learn, but one that's not oft repeated.
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12/09/2003 08:26:26 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by amazoneea:
What if he never received the request? |
Quite honestly, I don't believe that that is an issue that we can be expected to address. We followed standard, documented procedures, and actually went above and beyond by sending two notices and allowing more than twice as much time as normal to respond. (Over 4 days, not the "2 days" being mentioned in this thread.)
An email address is required at account creation. If for some reason that email address is invalid or "junks" email from the 'dpchallenge.com' domain, that isn't our problem. It wouldn't make any sense to have a rule that said "if a request for proof is sent and the user doesn't read it, or it is filtered by their spam filter, assume the photo is valid", would it?
If I had some sort of "spam filter" on the email address listed in my profile, I would be sure to put 'dpchallenge.com' on the "white list" (the list that says "mail is always accepted from this domain").
Rules are rules. As a member of the site council, I like to think that we are doing our best to ensure that everybody is "playing" by those same rules and that nobody has an unfair advantage by deciding that certain rules don't apply to them. But I guess it is like being the referee in a football game. It is easy to "boo" them and blame them for a "bad call" ...
(For those of you who don't think people purposefully cheat on this site, feel free to read this thread where a challenge submitter gleefully admits to cheating and not being caught).
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 08:47:05. |
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12/09/2003 08:34:16 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
"There were "reasonable grounds" for requesting a DQ sufficient that several SC members felt it appropriate to request proof -- twice. We received no response, and therefore have no alternative but to DQ. "
So what was it? Why the big secret?
Also, if you don't check your email for 24-48 hrs, your DQ-ed? What ever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty' Shame on DPC. |
Taken in count that a challenge has a 7 days to submit, two days is almost 20% of this time to proof that rules are follow. It is a good time to me.
The only thing that are in fault here is the abiliti to the submiter to see all DQs published against him. When you see your submission details, you see durint voting time your score, but no DQ request. If you know that a DQ was published you can put your original image on-line directcly by the site engine. The e-mail advice continues to be useful but this is more "clean game" an easy to the submiter´s management.
Message edited by EddyG - Fixed quoting issue. |
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12/09/2003 08:34:18 AM · #33 |
| Yeah, I'm with the SC on this. After submitting a photo for a challenge, I keep an eye on e-mails and messages and what-not. Perhaps the SC would consider addressing that in the rules for submitting a photo. Something to the extent of "Please be aware that the SC may attempt to contact you via your e-mail address regarding your challenge submissions". Although I think it's common sense to be aloof post challenge, it's a shame when things like this happen to unsuspecting individuals. |
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12/09/2003 09:11:23 AM · #34 |
Just a suggestion.
Indicate under the picture that an examination for DQ has been asked and that the ranking is not official till examination is completed. This way everybody would know. |
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12/09/2003 09:14:50 AM · #35 |
I agree and support the SC on this one. I don't generally finish high enough to get any ribbons unless 80% of you get DQ'd so it doesn't help me but I have had 2 requests for DQ and all I had to do was send the original JPG and my steps to create the submission and both times I was vindicated (scored abysmally; but vindicated nonetheless).
Why rant when the rules are posted and if the SC erred it was on the side of leniency. The submission was great and the failure of the artist to respond is sad but its not unreasonable to expect that he/she would check e-mail especially in light of winning a 2nd place shortly after he/she joined the site (according to darix's comments that they are both new members). I for one would just be waiting for the PM's to come rolling in congratulating me on being the next incarnation of Ansel Adams.
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12/09/2003 09:19:39 AM · #36 |
| I don't have much to say, that hasn't been said, just wanted to say that 4 days is a long time, and I perfectly agree to SC. Although it might been a valid shot, then on the other hand, it might not be. |
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12/09/2003 09:23:42 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by bormic:
Just a suggestion.
Indicate under the picture that an examination for DQ has been asked and that the ranking is not official till examination is completed. This way everybody would know. |
I fully suppport that suggestion. Plus I have an additional suggestions, to close the communication loop :
I was requested to submit proof a few times and I also requested validation myzelf on my own image, because I thought a DQ request might come up.
What I would like to see improved there is the feedback to the photographer after submitting the proof. In my case I did not get back any confirmation whether the picture had been accepted or not. Also I was unable to see for myself whether any message had been placed under the picture that it had been validated. So I just had to guess it was o.k.
Another suggestion, but now to the photographer :
If you expect to be away for a number of days and will not be able to respond to any DQ request, you can submit proof beforehand and ask for validation of your picture. (Would the SC be able to handle in increased number of such requests ?).
I fully support SC needs to have and enforce certain rules, it is a pity that on a few occasions this happens after results have been published. This is the second time my ribbon got changed and I don't like it at all, gaining from other peoples misfortune.
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 09:24:23. |
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12/09/2003 09:28:43 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
You know what this sounds like? It sounds like a member submitting a picture under a secondary alias and not checking the email account linked to it since it's only an email account that was created for joining DPC "a second time". People don't check email accounts for which they think they'll not receive any emails.
I know this sounds like a far-fetched conspiracy theory, but hey... people are dishonest. I deal with dishonest people everyday at work. Like it or not, some people can be deceitful.
I'm not saying that this was the case here, but it should be considered. |
This is not a very appropriate attitude for a Federal Officer to suggest. Extensive retraining my be required. Bad dog! Does your beagle carry the same attitude too? Let's hope not. Do not bite the innocent.
Some of us, perhaps most of us, go out of our way to make sure that we do not cheat or lie or smuggle evil cigarettes or run illegal booze into the great white north. By the way, statistically, what percentage of travelers do cheat - 1%, 2%, 5%? Do they commit the same level of treachery as our DPC members do?
I make sure that I leave the pepperoni, plants, and insects, all overseas and never, ever visit a farm within 14 days after entry to the homeland.
Is it time to teach the old dog a new trick or two?
Now that I think about it, there was that strange rumour running around the underground that someone placed a "HIT" on the Customs Beagle here in Toronto. So, maybe your assumptions are valid? [LOL] |
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12/09/2003 09:31:32 AM · #39 |
If he logged on many times, why he was not been contacted thru the site? Direct message or thru the forums? As the rule did not talk about a time frame for giving back an answer, I really don't see any fault that he committed here... To me, a couple of days without looking at my E-Mails is just normal life.
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 09:32:34. |
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12/09/2003 09:36:03 AM · #40 |
darix, the defense of your friend is admirable... but why is he/she not responding for themselves???
The site council makes every effort to contact through email, and as someone else stated, if it is not bounced they have to assume the email was received. The SC has plenty of other things to do than 'babysit' a DQ request.
If memory serves me correctly it has been stated a number of times in this forum that a time frame was given in the emails.
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12/09/2003 09:41:38 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by darix:
why he was not been contacted thru the site? Direct message or thru the forums? |
1) DPC relies on a well-known, well-supported method of "direct message" called "email" for communication. And the user was sent a "direct message" requesting proof not once, but twice.
2) The forums are not an appropriate place for person-to-person communication, especially about something like a request for proof.
Originally posted by darix:
To me, a couple of days without looking at my E-Mails is just normal life. |
The timeframe in question was over 4 days; two weekdays, plus two weekend days, followed by most of another weekday.
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 09:42:47. |
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12/09/2003 09:43:49 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by darix:
If he logged on many times, why he was not been contacted thru the site? Direct message or thru the forums? |
How would you like us starting a forum thread saying: Darix your photo has been recommended for DQ, please submit the original? I certainly wouldn't be to happy about it happening to me. Discretion is required therefore we send emails to request the originals.
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12/09/2003 09:48:12 AM · #43 |
OK OK OK, 2 days 4 days whatever is enough time I agree. BUT...what if after 7 days the person in question returns from holiday or gives a good explanation as to why they didn't reply, will he/her have their image reinstated IF the submit their image and it is deemed to fall within the rules of DPC? That's more what I am asking rather than how long the have to respond.
I am always plugging DPC to friends/family, some of whom only check their emails once per week. Seems unjust to DQ someone because they aren't internet geeks that are always on the net.
Also some people do like digital photography and don't sit in front of a computer all day or night.
As for Darix, why doesn't you mate answer for himself? I admire your defence of him, but I suggest if you know him that well, tell him to come here and explain/submit his image finally.
Finally, for conspiracy theories...hows this one for size.
"Darix IS the photographer" Pseudonym, second account?
LOL joke....mmm? ;)
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12/09/2003 09:50:09 AM · #44 |
I am the photographer!!!
A friend told me this morning what happened so I went home to send my original photo ASAP. But do you really think that sending an e-mail and requesting an answer within 2-3 days is enough? Does it mean that if I'm travelling alot I just can't participate? I can go on internet easily from anywhere, but I can't access my home E-mail adress... So, at least a note SHOULD be written on the Internet site showing that we have to submit the original.
If I have to check my home address on a DAILY BASIS for a month after the submission, I just can't and I will leave!
I'm very disappointed!!!!!!!
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 09:58:01. |
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12/09/2003 09:57:30 AM · #45 |
What a debate!!
I can testify on honor that darix and hmpix are two distinct physical persons cause I live with one on them and is friend with the other!!!!!! |
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12/09/2003 10:02:59 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Pepette:
What a debate!!
I can testify on honor that darix and hmpix are two distinct physical persons cause I live with one on them and is friend with the other!!!!!! |
That was just wild speculation. I would not worry about it. |
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12/09/2003 10:14:36 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by hmpix:
I am the photographer!!!
A friend told me this morning what happened so I went home to send my original photo ASAP. But do you really think that sending an e-mail and requesting an answer within 2-3 days is enough? Does it mean that if I'm travelling a lot I just can't participate? I can go on internet easily from anywhere, but I can't access my home E-mail address... So, at least a note SHOULD be written on the Internet site showing that we have to submit the original.
If I have to check my home address on a DAILY BASIS for a month after the submission, I just can't and I will leave!
I'm very disappointed!!!!!!! |
I travel every week for work. Last week, DPC sent me an email advising that if I renewed my membership before December 1st, then I could save some money. Needless to say, they sent it to my home email and I was out of the country for a week. I did not see the message until my return and the offer had expired. So, that cost me dollars! More time and consideration is required for the DPC marketing plans for sure.
As to this debate, if the someone cheats, then DQ them. If, on the other hand, they did not cheat, then reinstate them. Simple.
Heck, the Olympics (IOC) just handed over a gold metal to the Canadian Pairs Skating Team last month, which was upgraded from silver since the French Judge cheated at the Salt Lake Olympic games last year. If they, the IOC, can correct a wrong, then I see no reason why DPC can not correct a wrong - regardless of the time frame. Sounds reasonable to me. |
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12/09/2003 10:25:45 AM · #48 |
| ;-) I don't want to be the Robin Hood here... LOL |
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12/09/2003 11:22:46 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Does the site council accept RAW files or only files which have been converted into TIFF or JPEG? |
We prefer JPEGs. I know that in the case of the 10D/300D, even when shooting in RAW the camera still embeds an actual camera-generated JPEG in the raw file that can be extracted using software supplied with the camera. This can be sent as "proof", since it will also contain all of the EXIF data from the shot.
If that is impossible, special arrangements can be made to email the file instead of using the automated web interface, although we much prefer the latter. |
Thanks for this reply. I was so worried about how to get my info to you during the procedure. I lost sleep worrying about my DQ status even though I knew that I should have been in the clear.
Is it okay to resize, then send in the (resized) original?
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12/09/2003 11:38:25 AM · #50 |
If that happened, you could easily send a message to site support explaining your circumstances and telling them you'd be happy to get them the proof on your return.
Originally posted by hmpix:
I am the photographer!!!
A friend told me this morning what happened so I went home to send my original photo ASAP. But do you really think that sending an e-mail and requesting an answer within 2-3 days is enough? Does it mean that if I'm travelling alot I just can't participate? I can go on internet easily from anywhere, but I can't access my home E-mail adress... So, at least a note SHOULD be written on the Internet site showing that we have to submit the original.
If I have to check my home address on a DAILY BASIS for a month after the submission, I just can't and I will leave!
I'm very disappointed!!!!!!! |
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