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11/12/2008 04:29:58 PM · #1 |
Hello
Urgently need some advice as I think I'm being royally screwed by Canon refurb here in the UK.
Bought a lens the day before I left for a trip in late August, from an authorised dealer in Canon refurb lenses. It was second hand, had just been refurbished and came with a 6 month guarantee from Canon.
It's beautiful and sharp, quick to focus and a pleasure to use but I experienced a specific problem (see below) so took it back on my return 3 weeks later.
I showed the camera shop the problem, said they'd send it back to Canon for fixing. Two weeks later, Canon returned it, the shop called me to say it was ready, I went in and found it hadn't been fixed. (Keep in mind the shop is an hour's drive for me, there are many closer shops but I went here because of service). I asked for a refund, but unfortunately the business had just gone into administration. They were allowed to continue trading but not allowed to give any refunds or exchanges. So I spent considerable time making sure the staff understood the problem, and ensuring they wrote it down in proper detail on the issues form. They also lent me a Tamron 70-200 f2.8 lens in the meantime, though I'd have preferred like for like. I also discussed the added cost of the number of trips I was having to make up to them and the sales manager, who was hoping to buy the store from the previous owners, promised they would courier the lens back to me this time, with the courier to collect the loan one. So, the lens came back in. As Pete needed to buy an item which they were offering at a good price, we decided to go up again and collect at the same time. Guess what, not fixed! In the meantime the sales manager had indeed purchased the shop from the previous business. He could not give a refund, because the new business had not taken on the debts of the previous. Fair enough though extremely frustrating from my POV. So, again, I invested considerable time ensuring that everyone understood the problem. It was easy to replicate, easy to write down, easy to see. The sales manager/ new owner promised to personally drive the lens down to Canon refurb himself to expedite things. I am not sure he did because I found myself chasing it a week later. The store even related that they'd finally managed to get the Refurb Centre Manager on the case and she had assigned the top technician to the job. Eventuallly, I was told yesterday that Canon had come back to them with the claim that this is how the lens was meant to behave, so no fix.
I can't find ANY mention of this problem on the net, and whilst it may not be something that affects 99% of users, I'm sure someone would have noticed it and posted about it if it were a problem with all copies of this lens.
SO WHAT I AM ASKING IS FOR ANYONE WITH THIS LENS TO URGENTLY GO THROUGH THE STEPS BELOW THAT OUTLINE THE PROBLEM AND LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH THE LENS OR JUST MY COPY.
Switch the focus limiter into the close setting.
AF on something as close as possible, within that range.
Switch the focus limiter into the far setting.
Now swing the lens to view something in the far distance.
Press AF.
Nothing!
The AF cannot focus itself if the focus limiter is switched to far distance whilst the focus is already on something close by. (The IS version of this lens, I already know, does not have this problem).
I can get round it by manually moving focus into the range of the distant object and then using AF again.
By the way, I can absolutely work around this, now that I'm aware of it. The reason I want it sorted out, if it is a fault, is that I paid a lot for the lens. If I choose to resell it, given that it has a fault I am aware of, and I'm not willing to lie about that, I might find myself unable to achieve the price I paid for it because of the fault.
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11/12/2008 05:20:40 PM · #2 |
| I don't think it is a fault. If you are focused on the short setting at the near limit, it places you outside the range of the far setting. It only makes sense that this would cause a problem. The work around is actually much simpler than you are making it. Just refocus to a further point using AF BEFORE you switch to the far range setting. This is not broken. While you say the IS version does not have this problem I will tell you that my IS version has to hunt quite a bit to do this. That is why I never do it. If you are working the close setting just keep it on close or focus in the distance and then switch to the far setting. Problem solved. |
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11/12/2008 05:36:54 PM · #3 |
I am not arguing that the workaround is not simple.
But I'm not convinced that it makes sense that this would cause a problem.
On other L lenses I have used it's perfectly possible to switch between the two focus limiter settings regardless of the distance the lens is currently focused at and for autofocus to be able to move to the required position.
A friend has just double-checked this for me on the IS version of the lens and there is absolutely no problem at all. When he follows the steps in my example, the AF is still able to focus.
Unfortunately, I don't know anyone with the non-IS version that I have who can test this for me, hence what I'd really like is for people WITH THIS LENS to simply check whether or not their copies have the same problem, in which case I'm happy to accept that it's how the lens is designed (good or bad) or not (in which case I have something concrete with which to re-enter the discussion with the camera shop).
Thanks though.
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11/13/2008 06:31:59 AM · #4 |
NO one has this lens and can help me out?
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11/13/2008 09:32:41 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
NO one has this lens and can help me out? |
I have this lens, and will check at lunchtime for you.
Matt
Edit to check that I grabbed my camera and lens, and tried to do what you are doing. Mine is a 70-200F2.8L non IS on a 1DMKIII.
Putting the switch to the 1.5m-inf setting focusing as close as I can to the MFD then moving the switch to the 3m-inf position pointing the lens out the window it does AF.
My question is this, does the camera you are using have a custom function that would not allow the AF to hunt for focus? The 1 series has an AF hunt CF that will not allow AF to happen if the scene is grossly out of focus. Perhaps record your custom functions do a complete reset of the camera and try it. Also I might suggest putting it on another camera body to eliminate a possible problem with your camera.
Editing again to add,
I do seem to remember that my 100mm macro would not AF if it was in the close range and I moved the limit switch, or the other way around. Perhaps your lens is an older version of the lens and that is the way they were? What is the date code.
Message edited by author 2008-11-13 09:54:40.
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11/13/2008 10:49:33 AM · #6 |
My camera doesn't allow custom functions, so it's not that, but good suggestion.
So, it seems your lens, same model as mine, DOES AF even after following the steps above? That's very interesting!
Mine may well be an old version as it's second hand.
Is yours relatively new?
THANKS
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11/13/2008 11:05:09 AM · #7 |
My lens on a 20d has the same issue.
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11/13/2008 11:15:20 AM · #8 |
Interesting stuff. I'd bet that it's an interaction between the lens and the camera firmware. As such, it's just going to be "expected behavior." If it were causing a true non-operational issue, I'm sure Canon would address it, but in this case, I'm just as sure that Canon will ignore it.
At least you know there is nothing physically wrong with the lens, and that there is every probability that the misbehavior would be eliminated with at least some of the newer cameras. |
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11/13/2008 11:16:59 AM · #9 |
| I have a 40d on its way... it will be interesting to check once it gets here. |
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11/13/2008 12:27:31 PM · #10 |
I'm going to my moms tonight, and she has a 350 I'll toss my lens on there and see what it does. My 5D is in Canon's hands right now getting a little TLC checkup so I cant check in on that body. I will let you know tonight what it does.
Matt
Edit to answer your question. I think my lens is going on 3 years old now. I bought it new in 2006 I think
Message edited by author 2008-11-13 12:28:08.
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11/13/2008 12:39:38 PM · #11 |
i have the lens, too, and can check on both a 5D and 20D. More data!
Kavey, what's the date code on the lens? It'll be on the end of the lens that attaches to the body, and will look like "UT2189" the important letter will be the second one. that'll tell the year of manufacture. |
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11/13/2008 12:44:57 PM · #12 |
Thanks, at least I know it's now a known "feature" of this lens, or at least older copies. I can't check the date code, CANON STILL HAVE MY LENS, which I'm NOT happy about.
What amazes me most is that, given that this is the case, how did it take them THREE times having the lens for 2 weeks a pop before they were able to tell me so? The exact problem was laid out for them the second and third times, in as much detail as I gave you guys above.
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11/13/2008 12:55:36 PM · #13 |
Mine was manufactured 12/2004
edit; for comparison sake :P
Message edited by author 2008-11-13 12:56:01. |
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11/13/2008 01:32:40 PM · #14 |
on a 40d my lens also stops focusing when I do that
P's
on the date in which the lens was made I only have 6 numbers no letters
how can I find out when it was made? |
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11/13/2008 01:38:32 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Oded:
...on the date in which the lens was made I only have 6 numbers no letters
how can I find out when it was made? |
check out this link. It has the info for the date code. Will be a U followed by another letter, then 4 numbers. You might be looking at the serial number. Check on the bottom of the lens, on the mounting surface where it attaches to the body (you'll have to take it off the camera of course ;) |
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11/13/2008 01:50:05 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by brownsm:
Originally posted by Oded:
...on the date in which the lens was made I only have 6 numbers no letters
how can I find out when it was made? |
check out this link. It has the info for the date code. Will be a U followed by another letter, then 4 numbers. You might be looking at the serial number. Check on the bottom of the lens, on the mounting surface where it attaches to the body (you'll have to take it off the camera of course ;) |
thanks I found it
mine is from 2001
Message edited by author 2008-11-13 14:01:41. |
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11/13/2008 02:45:56 PM · #17 |
Well after seeing all of the responses, I'd say the issue is a camera issue rather then a lens issue. Seems consumer cameras wont, but pro series cameras will. I find it odd, but what are you going to do. Perhaps its a limitation of the auto focus system.
Matt
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11/13/2008 03:00:44 PM · #18 |
Seems so...
Which I wouldn't MIND if Canon had been able to feed that back the first, or even, hey let's be generous, the second time the same lens was sent to them with a detailed description of the problem!
Sigh!
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11/13/2008 04:09:49 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Mike_Adams:
I don't think it is a fault. If you are focused on the short setting at the near limit, it places you outside the range of the far setting. It only makes sense that this would cause a problem. The work around is actually much simpler than you are making it. Just refocus to a further point using AF BEFORE you switch to the far range setting. This is not broken. While you say the IS version does not have this problem I will tell you that my IS version has to hunt quite a bit to do this. That is why I never do it. If you are working the close setting just keep it on close or focus in the distance and then switch to the far setting. Problem solved. |
It doesn't make sense that this would cause a problem at all.
Message edited by author 2008-11-13 16:10:37.
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11/13/2008 04:56:19 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Well after seeing all of the responses, I'd say the issue is a camera issue rather then a lens issue. Seems consumer cameras wont, but pro series cameras will. I find it odd, but what are you going to do. Perhaps its a limitation of the auto focus system.
Matt |
I agree with Matt that it apparently is a problem specific to all or most non-1-series bodies. I don't think it is a limitation of the AF system, but more likely a difference in firmware code.
There's absolutely no reason that a non-1-series body can't push the focus back out into range before trying to focus, but the code apparently isn't there to do so. |
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11/13/2008 05:11:46 PM · #21 |
did you tell them ( canon ) what camera it was mounted to ?
Originally posted by Kavey:
Seems so...
Which I wouldn't MIND if Canon had been able to feed that back the first, or even, hey let's be generous, the second time the same lens was sent to them with a detailed description of the problem!
Sigh! |
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11/13/2008 10:21:27 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by MattO:
Well after seeing all of the responses, I'd say the issue is a camera issue rather then a lens issue. Seems consumer cameras wont, but pro series cameras will. I find it odd, but what are you going to do. Perhaps its a limitation of the auto focus system.
Matt |
I agree with Matt that it apparently is a problem specific to all or most non-1-series bodies. I don't think it is a limitation of the AF system, but more likely a difference in firmware code.
There's absolutely no reason that a non-1-series body can't push the focus back out into range before trying to focus, but the code apparently isn't there to do so. |
just tried this with my 5D, and it works fine. No problems with the AF. I'll try my 20D to see if I can replicate the issues some folks have had. |
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11/13/2008 11:00:34 PM · #23 |
I have that lens, THE NON IS VERSION and it does the same thing. Always has, I bought it new. It had done it on all 4 Canon cameras it has regularly been used on. first, a film EOS 3 Pro level camera, the a Canon EOS 10D digital and a Canon EOS 300D Rebel and a Canon EOS 30D Digital and a once borrowed 30D for a few hours one day before I bought my own.
I bought the lens new in 2003.
I rarely use the close setting and I always focus on something far before I switch it over. Once in a while, when it is set on the far setting I bump it into the close range and I will then have to switch the button, focus on something far, then switch it back. I have spent hours and hours and hours with this lens over the last 5-6 years and it isn't a problem to manage. It is what it is and it has made an awful lot of money. I never questioned it i. I will admit the first time i happened I about freaked, I figured it out after looking for a sec and I've never had a problem with it since. If I bump it, I just fix it and go on. I always check it before I start shooting, it has never slowed me down.
Now after reading a few other posts. It is not a camera problem either. Mine has been on no less than 5 canon EOS bodies and it behaves consistently. It's not a camera or lens issue, it's a learning the the parameters of your equipment so you work fluidly issue. I can put it on a Mark III next week when I'll be with a friend who has one just to check.
Yes, Kavey, Canon could have informed you, however.
Hope that help you some.
Edit to add: I have the 70-200 2.8L AND the 70-200 4.0L The above is referring to my 2.8. I rarely use the 4.0 as it is merely a backup and is slower.
When you lock the lens in the 3 meter and beyond, it is a mechanical setting that blocks the lens from retracting. Thats why the digital communication from the camera can't undo it. (educated guess)
Originally posted by Kavey:
NO one has this lens and can help me out? |
Message edited by author 2008-11-14 01:54:13.
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11/14/2008 01:46:27 AM · #24 |
Just to muddy the waters a little, I've just read on another forum of someone having the issue with a 135 and not a 70-200f/4 IS. Both on the same camera, I presume.
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11/14/2008 11:02:35 AM · #25 |
The shop knew which camera the lens was being used on, though we had the same problem on three different models of Canon bodies we tested it with when demonstrating the problem to the shop staff, so we were confident it wasn't a camera body issue.
I can live with the fact it's an inherent problem with earlier releases of this lens, but I cannot believe Canon couldn't have figured/ told us about that on the first, or at least the second time they had the lens in. The second time at least, they had a detailed description of how to recreate the problem (as my post above) so should immediately have been able to say, "oh, that's an issue with this lens, it's not an error or fault".
:(
Got lens back today, will check date stamp later, but I imagine it'll be an older one.
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