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11/05/2008 04:51:41 PM · #76 |
| 5.15 area..........very good for me |
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11/05/2008 05:08:24 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Originally posted by karmat:
The 20% was chosen to try and give everyone roughly the same number of votes. Statistically, if everyone voted on the first 20% shown to them, the number of votes everyone received would be very, very close.
If everyone starts "cherry picking," obviously that changes. But, I think enough people vote "in order" to keep it equitable. |
I can see this point. I have noticed that the numbers of votes cast are roughly similar, give or take 5 to 10 votes in challenges. (Comparing different photos and vote numbers cast). But, I do think that there are some who "cherry pick" and that can't be stopped, I know. I also recognize that people will go through, simply viewing the entire realm of photos in the challenge first. Equally, there are those who will go through them all, viewing and stop to vote/comment on the ones that catch their eyes for one reason or another (good or bad) and only choose those. Again, I know...no way to fix that...just that I'm very sure that it does happen. :)
Edited to add:
I see that in the Money Challenge for instance, the vote numbers ranged from 173 to 193....now, that one is a fairly significant number difference in this case. 20 extra votes or less votes does show that there is some "cherry picking" going on or, perhaps, "friend/team" voting???? Just an observation, nothing else. |
I'm not a statician, but that may be a "normal" range. In that same challenge, for example, the winner had 189 votes and the last place picture had 182. The top ten average a few more votes than the bottom ten which would indicate there is probably a few users (re = around 4 or 5) that are indeed cherry picking. Like you said, not sure that we can stop them all, even if we require 50%. IIRC, we tried 100% voting or commenting -- it was a disaster. Not a good thing for the site. |
I wouldnt like to have to vote on all. There are many shots that i skip voting on, either because I dont feel i am being objective if i had to vote on them, or they are poor photos and i feel bad voting them low |
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11/05/2008 05:18:31 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Originally posted by karmat:
The 20% was chosen to try and give everyone roughly the same number of votes. Statistically, if everyone voted on the first 20% shown to them, the number of votes everyone received would be very, very close.
If everyone starts "cherry picking," obviously that changes. But, I think enough people vote "in order" to keep it equitable. |
I can see this point. I have noticed that the numbers of votes cast are roughly similar, give or take 5 to 10 votes in challenges. (Comparing different photos and vote numbers cast). But, I do think that there are some who "cherry pick" and that can't be stopped, I know. I also recognize that people will go through, simply viewing the entire realm of photos in the challenge first. Equally, there are those who will go through them all, viewing and stop to vote/comment on the ones that catch their eyes for one reason or another (good or bad) and only choose those. Again, I know...no way to fix that...just that I'm very sure that it does happen. :)
Edited to add:
I see that in the Money Challenge for instance, the vote numbers ranged from 173 to 193....now, that one is a fairly significant number difference in this case. 20 extra votes or less votes does show that there is some "cherry picking" going on or, perhaps, "friend/team" voting???? Just an observation, nothing else. |
I'm not a statician, but that may be a "normal" range. In that same challenge, for example, the winner had 189 votes and the last place picture had 182. The top ten average a few more votes than the bottom ten which would indicate there is probably a few users (re = around 4 or 5) that are indeed cherry picking. Like you said, not sure that we can stop them all, even if we require 50%. IIRC, we tried 100% voting or commenting -- it was a disaster. Not a good thing for the site. |
Yeah, it would be a disaster to force everyone to vote 100% or comment 100%. It would probably discourage voting altogether, or would end up with a lot of scrubs at the end. |
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11/05/2008 05:21:11 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
It seems that in voting on only 20%, it doesn't make much sense, does it? What do people do in this case....search through the thumbnails and only vote on those 20% that catch eyes either because they are very good, or very bad and forget the middle ground shots? |
I don't cherry pick, I start at the beginning of the random sequence that they are given to me and go from there. That's fair. I alos ake more effort to comment on the 4's and 5's, as those are the ones where someone is wondering why their masterpiece is not doing well. The great shots will(usually) get plenty of comments, and the poor one often will as well. |
I do that as well, Steve. I start at the first shot on my page and work my way through until I've done them all or as many as I can possibly get to before the week is out. I WILL go through them all once (usually the same night they are put up) just to see what people have entered but, do not score at that point. It's way too late to score at that point...everyone would end up with 10's! ;-) |
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11/05/2008 06:04:50 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
[quote=yospiff] [quote=PhotoInterest]I start at the first shot on my page and work my way through until I've done them all or as many as I can possibly get to before the week is out. I WILL go through them all once (usually the same night they are put up) just to see what people have entered but, do not score at that point. It's way too late to score at that point...everyone would end up with 10's! ;-) |
AH! Jamie, there's nothing wrong with giving everyone 10's. haha.
I'm knew to the whole photography thing, and so far, I've really appreciated those who have taken time to leave comments. With that, I normally only vote on one challenge a week because I try to leave comments for every photo that I see... sounds hard/time consuming... but if I leave a comment on someone's photo, everytime I check my own score then I will be done commenting on a challenge in no time. haha. But I try to live off of the good old golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I'm hoping if I leave constructive feedback that others will do the same. |
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11/05/2008 06:31:44 PM · #81 |
Going back up the post a bit, I see that there was suggestion that if people voted in order (which is randomised) that voting would be pretty even acrossed the board. I wonder if it would be worth having it fixed so that you can only vote in the order 1 -> end (minimum 20%), you could have it that everyone can see all the images in the challenge but only vote in the order that was randomised for them.
Not sure if it's THE answer but it could work I guess. |
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11/05/2008 06:40:05 PM · #82 |
| OMG someone thought I cheated!!! You have no idea how happy that makes me!!! For once I must have done something right to make someone think that...HAPPIESt DAY OF MY DPC days!!! |
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11/05/2008 11:44:08 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Mark-A:
Going back up the post a bit, I see that there was suggestion that if people voted in order (which is randomised) that voting would be pretty even acrossed the board. I wonder if it would be worth having it fixed so that you can only vote in the order 1 -> end (minimum 20%), you could have it that everyone can see all the images in the challenge but only vote in the order that was randomised for them.
Not sure if it's THE answer but it could work I guess. |
Interesting idea. That's pretty much what I do anyway, unless it is a two page challenge. Once I get to 20% I take a break and will come back to it if I have time.
Score...
Votes: 96
Views: 171
Avg Vote:6.5625
Comments:6
Favorites:1
Message edited by author 2008-11-06 09:47:33. |
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11/06/2008 12:39:33 PM · #84 |
100 vote check-in. Seems to be hovering now in the low 6's. Every 7 or 8 is countered by a 4 or 5. This place certainly proves that you can't please everyone. All the comments are overwhelmingly positive. This one might make my profile page if the voting trend holds. *Yay!*
Votes: 100
Views: 167
Avg Vote: 6.0800
Comments: 6 |
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11/06/2008 12:46:11 PM · #85 |
yeesh. don't know what is up with the voters today. bad milk in the cheerios, maybe?
creeping down. |
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11/06/2008 01:32:06 PM · #86 |
Yeah agreed the last hour - 90 minutes has seen some very harsh voting :(
Not posting score as it's rubbish lol |
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11/06/2008 01:39:14 PM · #87 |
Haven't reached 100 yet but, I agree with MarkA....this is rubbish......
Votes: 96
Views: 141
Avg Vote: 4.8229
Comments: 2
It may not be ribbon material but, this low a score is just plain unjustified. :(
I don't know what is going on in here with voting lately....no lunch, too much lunch, bad night's sleep, no sleep, angry over own personal scores....or "bad milk in cheerios"...??? Whatever it is.....it's discouraging towards putting any effort into any shots anymore. :(
Message edited by author 2008-11-06 13:41:24. |
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11/06/2008 02:19:07 PM · #88 |
| I will admit to my voting average on this challenge being lower than usual for me. However, I only gave a single 2 and three 3's out of 33 votes. The low votes all got comments explaining why. I got a very nice PM from another member in response to one of my comments explaining my low vote, and asking for more info on what I'd said. That's the kind of thing that encourages me to keep dishing out the detailed comments. |
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11/06/2008 02:44:57 PM · #89 |
I have gotten two comments in variation of the following.
"It's a very nice capture but the image does not include a mirror so have to deduct points. Sorry."
Please look up the meaning of the word in any Dictionary for me... just for fun. I believe 99% of them will say a reflective surface. I am happy for the comment, it explains my scores a bit better. I'd have no problem taking off points for someone who doesn't come close, but this is quite obvious. I am sorry i did not take a picture of a metal object that reflects light. Perhaps if the challenge stated that very thing i would have.
Happy shooting,
Grant |
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11/06/2008 03:41:12 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by Mark-A:
Going back up the post a bit, I see that there was suggestion that if people voted in order (which is randomised) that voting would be pretty even acrossed the board. I wonder if it would be worth having it fixed so that you can only vote in the order 1 -> end (minimum 20%), you could have it that everyone can see all the images in the challenge but only vote in the order that was randomised for them.
Not sure if it's THE answer but it could work I guess. |
That wouldn't work for me as I skip voting on the entries that I know belong to specific members. Sometimes 3 or 4 in a challenge.
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11/06/2008 03:55:49 PM · #91 |
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11/06/2008 04:01:12 PM · #92 |
Another 4.xxxx submission requiring validation. This is my third or fourth in the past few months. (I've lost track)All of them have survived. I must be ahead of my time. It appears I'm getting voted down because voters feel it is not a valid entry. I do have a few nice comments though. (Just venting)
Votes: 102
Views: 162
Avg Vote: 4.7255
Comments: 7
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/06/08 03:56 pm
Status: Thank you for submitting your proof file. Your submission is being reviewed by the administrators and is pending further action. |
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11/06/2008 04:05:09 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by Mark-A:
Going back up the post a bit, I see that there was suggestion that if people voted in order (which is randomised) that voting would be pretty even acrossed the board. I wonder if it would be worth having it fixed so that you can only vote in the order 1 -> end (minimum 20%), you could have it that everyone can see all the images in the challenge but only vote in the order that was randomised for them.
Not sure if it's THE answer but it could work I guess. |
That wouldn't work for me as I skip voting on the entries that I know belong to specific members. Sometimes 3 or 4 in a challenge. |
You could still do that by clicking on the << or >> arrows. :) |
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11/06/2008 04:09:05 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by gmarblestone:
I have gotten two comments in variation of the following.
"It's a very nice capture but the image does not include a mirror so have to deduct points. Sorry."
Please look up the meaning of the word in any Dictionary for me... just for fun. I believe 99% of them will say a reflective surface. I am happy for the comment, it explains my scores a bit better. I'd have no problem taking off points for someone who doesn't come close, but this is quite obvious. I am sorry i did not take a picture of a metal object that reflects light. Perhaps if the challenge stated that very thing i would have.
Happy shooting,
Grant |
Hmmmm.......maybe, that's my problem too....I DO have an actual MIRROR in the shot but, maybe, people are misunderstanding that it is one???? Still puzzled because the comments that I have gotten are favorable???? ~:( |
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11/06/2008 05:12:48 PM · #95 |
You have rated 132 of 132 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 132 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 6.5985.
A hard challenge to vote and comment on, but I did it! Good luck! |
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11/06/2008 05:45:30 PM · #96 |
Well the last 2 votes I have received are both 2s or a 3 and a 1 but strangely enough the persons giving out those votes were not brave enough to put their name to their vote (no comments made).
I'm getting to the point where after the DPCO finishes I don't think I will bother participating anymore, whilst I do learn something from most challenges I am quickly finding that on a personal level there is no fun in receiving stupidly low votes that are obviously not marking on any kind of technical or challenge criteria merit whatsoever. If that means that these small minded people have won a victory well I guess bully for them, what I find really annoying is that the whole day has been rediculously harsh voting almost as if it was orchestrated and completely against voting so far in the challenge.
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11/06/2008 06:05:26 PM · #97 |
| and with getting that dispute I was hoping that was a good sign.........my scores went down again today.......... |
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11/06/2008 08:18:49 PM · #98 |
Votes: 101
Views: 151
Avg Vote: 4.7723
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0
I'm WAY down!!!
I'm also at the point where the effort I put into my shots is not worth the frustration anymore. I know that my shots are not at a calibre that some in here have reached but, I was learning in here for awhile. However, it's now become more of a frustration than a learning experience. Something is terribly wrong, somewhere in here. It wasn't like this before in here and I've been a member here for 2 years today, actually! I am feeling a lot of discontent under currents rumbling under the surface in a lot of people. While they are not being voiced directly, but rather in terms of voting low scores (the 1's, 2's and 3's are just totally out of hand and ridiculous now!!!!) some with pm's or just this quiet "upset" being shown in comments, posts and remarks (and, yes, I recognize that I have also shown some of this frustration in my posts in the forums as well). I feel more frustrated than anything else and it's turning me off of photography altogether now. I'm going to stop here because it's all sounding very bitter. I don't mean to but, it's frustration setting in and I'm venting because I feel that there's a LOT of others out there who are feeling the same as I and it seems, Mark is also feeling. I'm sure that there are many others who are also feeling the same, but out of fear of being "stomped on" by other members, they keep it to themselves. I'm sure that a number of the "troll votes" as we like to call them are more just discontented and frustrated members rather than "trolls"!
I took a hiatus from here back in the summer because of the very reasons that I'm stating here, right now. I came back, hoping things had shifted again, but am finding it even worse now! This is likely my last challenge entry too. |
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11/06/2008 09:16:42 PM · #99 |
Votes: 102
Views: 153
Avg Vote: 4.4314
Comments: 7
Although I have been a member only for a few months, I do resonate Jamie's feelings. I remember how excited I was when I got my DSLR in September. So much so that I put almost 7000 actuations on the body in just 2 months (in fact the moment I would reach home, I would pick the cam and run to the backyard).
But now, with each passing challenge, I feel I am getting stupider (photographically). No doubt I learnt a lot about the basic things like aperture/ISO/DOF/focus and basic editing... but I think there is a lot more to good photography than just that. I cant put my finger on what it is yet, but I feel it is the creativity, composition (including scene setup), and advanced editing skills that set the winners apart from the common 4 or 5-scoring images.
Out of all these things, getting low scores isnt helping my creativity (I dont even know where my camera is today.. I havent touched it since the last entry.. compare that to about a month ago when it would sit with me on the couch:). Also, seeing shoehorned entries that dont fit the challenge themes as much (no offense to anyone) but are technically superior and score far better, hurts my desire to learn scene setup and creatively aligning my cam to fit the challenge.
One thing I still have a zeal to pursue is the advanced editing skills. But for some reasons, I cannot naturally advocate learning skills other than basic noise removal or contrast enhancement.. I believe they take me (as a novice) farther from learning the basic photography skills.
I think DPC would have helped me a lot more if I was already a seasoned photog.. and not an amateur. Someone like me needs encouragement.. and may be I am not ready yet to swim in the ocean of DPC with the ribbon sharks ;-)
Above everything, though, I do see a few great souls on here from whom I am learning things other than photog.. like community and social skills, and even some political tactics (in the Rant section).
Perhaps I should stop participating and just put the images in a portfolio and request the willing ones to appreciate and criticize them? I dont know. I just dont think I need additional stress from more competition in my leisure on top of all that I see at work and otherwise. Competition probably brings the best in people... I may just be an exception;-)
Does any senior member here have anything to say? I am looking for experiences I can relate to.. in terms of you getting disassociated from photog because you took part in the challenges?
Sorry I dont want to hijack the score thread, and if you object, I can start a separate thread.
Message edited by author 2008-11-07 01:00:32.
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11/06/2008 09:47:46 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Sorry I dont want to hijack the score thread, and if you object, I can start a separate thread. |
That's a great idea Prash, but before you do, I'll give you a wee bit of advice you can take or leave: Stop using dpc challenges as way to validate yourself as a photographer. There are plenty of great photographers here with little or no recognition, just as there are not-so-great photographers with a string of pretty little .gifs. DPC Ribbons/high scores do NOT make you a good photographer. |
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