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10/30/2008 07:20:13 AM · #1 |
In doing my thing around town one afternoon this week (during my lunch hour) I was finally caught. I heard someone behind me say, "He just took your picture." I'm thinking, "Yeah, but it wasn't a very good one." Next I heard some ruckus followed by, "Hey, excuse me, excuse me." I turned around and there were about six people surrounding me -- older folks who I've seen loitering in the street before, so completely non-threatening. Not that I was planning a physical confrontation, but still...
I explained that I was simply taking pictures of the buildings around town -- and that̢۪s kind of true. "Well, we were in the background." "Oh, well I'll delete that one." Still suspicious, "Okay, alright, thank you." One guy continued to protest. "I want to see the picture. No, I want to see it." But I just walked away.
A little embarrassing, a little unnerving, but kind of amusing too. Actually, I feel like I̢۪ve been initiated into a club. I must have been feeling a little empowered after watching Bruce Gilden on YouTube. I was not shooting from the hip this time; rather, I had the camera at my chest. I have to work on that. Maybe the correct Gilden in-your-face response would have been, "Yeah, I was taking your picture. And now that you're all posed, let's get a few more..." Click, click, click...
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10/30/2008 07:31:17 AM · #2 |
I've not done much street photography but that does worry me a little getting caught and how annoyed people may be ... I was taking a few shots of a few people sat texting away when one looked up ... she didn't seem to bothered and in fact smiled for the camera!
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10/30/2008 11:00:06 AM · #3 |
Watching that Bruce Gilden video almost made me physically ill...no exagerration. It's the kind of stuff that gives photographers a bad name.
BUT if it empowered you that's a really great by-product. After viewing so many images in the side Challenge and the Challenge it seems that courage is a missing ingredient in a lot of the shots. Catching a story with a photograph at "the decisive moment" which makes the story clearly apparent does require a firm handle of the situation and the camera.
Be brave, show conviction but try not to be obnoxious. His manner was completely obnoxious and I didn't see many images in that video that had much value. There were perhaps two in the whole lot and I assume that video showed some of his better work. Oy!
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 11:08:43. |
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10/30/2008 11:10:53 AM · #4 |
Yea, I could only watch a few moments of that video. What an ass!
I get caught often. I think you can be confident and powerful and maintain kindness. |
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10/30/2008 11:13:08 AM · #5 |
Wow, I think that dude is an ass. Not quite candid photos are they? ;P
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10/30/2008 11:48:55 AM · #6 |
| I guess there are choices to be made. You can be either a wimp or a photographer. No one ever said life would be easy. |
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10/30/2008 12:03:34 PM · #7 |
Sharing and responding to  pawdrix's comment.
Almost, but not exactly. There were obstructions and passers-by, and by the time I got a window, I was clearly spotted, so it was a missed opportunity. I need to work on choreography maybe.
As I said, the picture was for illustrative purposes only. It didn't work out, but it gave me an opportunity to share an anecdote from the street. Off to shoot more right now, as a matter of fact, with new lessons in mind...
Great images, by the way.
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10/30/2008 12:29:15 PM · #8 |
why does his method make him an ass? he's capturing people, when they least expect it. always out in wide open public where no expectation of privacy exists. from the clip, it didn't appear that he verbally insulted anyone.
is it considered more tactful to capture people with a 300mm lens? ignorance is bliss, etc?
is eddie adams an ass for taking this picture: Picture
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 12:33:21. |
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10/30/2008 12:40:28 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
After viewing so many images in the side Challenge and the Challenge it seems that courage is a missing ingredient in a lot of the shots. |
Courage doing street photography is something I'm working on ... not easy to do! I'm also trying to work up the courage to ASK people if I can take their picture more often, which again, isn't easy for me to do ... I was standing on the street corner the other day waiting for a friend and had a chat with a fellow that was passing out flyers for a barbershop ... I did get the courage to ask him and got turned down ... at least he was nice about it though ... |
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10/30/2008 12:44:29 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
After viewing so many images in the side Challenge and the Challenge it seems that courage is a missing ingredient in a lot of the shots. |
Courage doing street photography is something I'm working on ... not easy to do! I'm also trying to work up the courage to ASK people if I can take their picture more often, which again, isn't easy for me to do ... I was standing on the street corner the other day waiting for a friend and had a chat with a fellow that was passing out flyers for a barbershop ... I did get the courage to ask him and got turned down ... at least he was nice about it though ... |
if you feel compelled to garner permission ..snap first, ask after. there is no legal obligation, btw, to get permission from your subjects, when out in public and not in a situation where privacy is implied.
me, personally, i like to ruffle people's feathers, push their bubble, and get candids ...not a posed shot after asking if they feel in the mood to be photographed. |
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10/30/2008 12:46:47 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Thaddeus_Smith:
me, personally, i like to ruffle people's feathers, push their bubble, and get candids ...not a posed shot after asking if they feel in the mood to be photographed. |
but both techniques can produce outstanding results. One is not "better" than the other. |
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10/30/2008 12:48:08 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by Thaddeus_Smith:
me, personally, i like to ruffle people's feathers, push their bubble, and get candids ...not a posed shot after asking if they feel in the mood to be photographed. |
but both techniques can produce outstanding results. One is not "better" than the other. |
nor was i indicating as such. the people at the top of the thread, however, are. |
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10/30/2008 12:49:36 PM · #13 |
| my comment wasn't pointed - just adding to the conversation |
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10/30/2008 12:51:02 PM · #14 |
| no worries. i AM pointing. paparazzi stalking celebrities give photogs a bad name ..not street photographers that bend the social norms. |
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10/30/2008 01:17:57 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Thaddeus_Smith:
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
After viewing so many images in the side Challenge and the Challenge it seems that courage is a missing ingredient in a lot of the shots. |
Courage doing street photography is something I'm working on ... not easy to do! I'm also trying to work up the courage to ASK people if I can take their picture more often, which again, isn't easy for me to do ... I was standing on the street corner the other day waiting for a friend and had a chat with a fellow that was passing out flyers for a barbershop ... I did get the courage to ask him and got turned down ... at least he was nice about it though ... |
if you feel compelled to garner permission ..snap first, ask after. there is no legal obligation, btw, to get permission from your subjects, when out in public and not in a situation where privacy is implied.
me, personally, i like to ruffle people's feathers, push their bubble, and get candids ...not a posed shot after asking if they feel in the mood to be photographed. |
I agree ... but sometimes I would like to have my subject completely engaged with the camera ... street portrait vs street candid ... 2 very different things, IMHO ... nothing wrong with either approach and both can produce great results ... depends on what you're going for ... while I was chatting the the flyer dude I was snapping candids like crazy ... he was just so interesting that I wanted him to engage the camera for a different type of shot ... |
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10/30/2008 01:20:33 PM · #16 |
I liked some of his photos. There are some really interesting shots in his collection. I also shoot on the street and often don't ask for permission.
But I don't stick my camera 5 inches from an unsuspecting elderly woman's face just to get her panicked reaction.
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 13:21:43. |
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10/30/2008 01:35:02 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Thaddeus_Smith:
why does his method make him an ass? he's capturing people, when they least expect it.
is eddie adams an ass for taking this picture: Picture |
To put it simply I think his results are ridiculous. Personally, I see no point or interest in seeing peoples faces caught in mid-shock or confusion. Just my opinion but there's little to no value, I can see in the expressions he captured. Those images are a good deal about him and less about the people he shoots. He injects himself into the image. Just my opinion but I think it's totally cheesy.
I'll try to liken it with an anology of taking a picture series of people, a split second after they've been punched in the stomach. "This what people look like after they have been punched in the stomach" and my reaction would be "ok...and who cares"...
Eddie Adams image is apples and oranges away from Bruce G. His image is the story teller image of ALL story teller images. If a picture ever served a purpose, that would be the one I might point to as a prime example. It almost single handidly turned the tide of the Viet Nam War. Eddie Adams was doing his job and nailed the shit out of a peak, decisive moment. Most important, is that he didn't create the tension...it was pure and it was there. IMO, that's as good as it gets.
I did say that a few of the shots were ok. If you noticed they mixed in a few archive images into the presentation and I think they probably used what he or they consider to be some of his best work. If I'm correct and those were some of his best, I'll say that I don't think he's that good. Again, just an opinion.
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 13:40:22. |
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10/30/2008 01:38:33 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Thaddeus_Smith:
why does his method make him an ass? he's capturing people, when they least expect it.
is eddie adams an ass for taking this picture: Picture |
Eddie Adams image is apples and oranges away from Bruce G. His image is the story teller image of ALL story teller images. If a picture ever served a purpose, that would be the one I might point to as a prime example. It almost single handidly turned the tide of the Viet Nam War. Eddie Adams was doing his job and nailed the shit out of peak, decisive moment. IMO, that's as good as it gets. |
that's the perspective now. it was not the intention then. they are indeed apples and oranges, however i was illustrating that often times it's our job as photographers to capture life as it is ..not as it appears when all consent forms have been signed and there's a smile for the camera. |
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10/30/2008 01:41:53 PM · #19 |
no better / worse than color images of crying children
just a different variant of humanity
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10/30/2008 02:38:07 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Thaddeus_Smith:
is eddie adams an ass for taking this picture: Picture |
Eddie Adams image is apples and oranges away from Bruce G. His image is the story teller image of ALL story teller images. If a picture ever served a purpose, that would be the one I might point to as a prime example. It almost single handidly turned the tide of the Viet Nam War. Eddie Adams was doing his job and nailed the shit out of peak, decisive moment. IMO, that's as good as it gets. [/quote]
that's the perspective now. it was not the intention then. they are indeed apples and oranges, however i was illustrating that often times it's our job as photographers to capture life as it is ..not as it appears when all consent forms have been signed and there's a smile for the camera. [/quote]
I'd say it was his intention to take a meaningful picture that told the story and reality of the war. That fact that it had mega-impact, I'm certain, was his goal though you can never tell or guarantee that. |
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10/30/2008 02:42:47 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'll try to liken it with an anology of taking a picture series of people, a split second after they've been punched in the stomach. "This what people look like after they have been punched in the stomach" and my reaction would be "ok...and who cares"... |
I'm not sure if I agree with you or not, Steve, but this analogy can be used for ANY type of photography that you happen to dislike. "This is a flower, who cares" ... "these people are going about life, who cares" ... "this person is smiling for the camera, who cares"
I think, by Bruce G's success, that more people care than don't care - else he'd be broke - and he isn't :) |
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10/30/2008 02:51:14 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'd say it was his intention to take a meaningful picture that told the story and reality of the war. That fact that it had mega-impact, I'm certain, was his goal though you can never tell or guarantee that. |
according to this interview ..you're far from the truth.
Click on "Eddie Adams"
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 14:52:37. |
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10/30/2008 02:59:32 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by ralph:
no better / worse than color images of crying children
just a different variant of humanity |
She (Jill Grreenberg) got a lot of shit for that, as well. Outside of slick lighting and post processing, I saw almost now value in looking at that series of images.
In terms of humanity, in most of those shots all he showed of humanity was how scared, shocked, repelled, confused people look when a strange photographer gets in their faces with a Flash. Their looks were pretty funny but who cares...they were as expected, no news to me.
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 15:11:59. |
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10/30/2008 03:11:11 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'll try to liken it with an anology of taking a picture series of people, a split second after they've been punched in the stomach. "This what people look like after they have been punched in the stomach" and my reaction would be "ok...and who cares"... |
I'm not sure if I agree with you or not, Steve, but this analogy can be used for ANY type of photography that you happen to dislike. "This is a flower, who cares" ... "these people are going about life, who cares" ... "this person is smiling for the camera, who cares"
I think, by Bruce G's success, that more people care than don't care - else he'd be broke - and he isn't :) |
Good point and I will say that I'm not overly impressed or interested in many of the subjects you mentioned. I'm just ranking his work low and I'm giving you my reasons. That's the best I can do but it's good to toss these things around in an honest and open way. Some poeple I assume see my points and may agree but on their first impression may have been wowed or surprised. It's definetly strange but in my opinion a non-event.
"more people care than don't care"
Some people are impressed by Joe The Plumber suffice to say I'm not.
Thaddeus-I watched a few documentaries on that single image and read a bunch about Eddie Adams and his thoughts on it. What I was trying to say is that any professional goes out and does his best and sometimes they don't even realize themselves what they have done but their intent is to take a meaningful image. He, as a PJ was telling a story.
Funny...I thought this was a throw away image (processed in two seconds without much love) and I probably should have entered it into the Street Challenge. I never choose what scores high. It very well may be my best received image of the year...who knows? I still need to go back and work on the whites but I did bring out some good tones on my first pass.
eta: As I look at the image above it is well taken but aside from the bells and whistles (cool looking metal Incense things...veils...etc) I don't think it shows any emotion. Just a woman straining a little to see a procession. There really isn't that much there that digs deeply. Perhaps that's why I saw it as a throw away.
Message edited by author 2008-10-31 10:12:28. |
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10/30/2008 03:17:20 PM · #25 |
| I should add: In my opinion, what Bruce G does should be illegal (imo). People should have the right to NOT be flashed in the face from 12" away in public. |
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