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10/16/2008 11:44:17 AM · #101 |
"It's drawing attention to a movie which is mainstreaming and normalizing pornography, saying if you need money, this is what you do,"
What they choose to advertise or not is their decision, but if this is the reason, then it stinks of hypocricy. I have seen adds for a slew of Mafia movies, a fair asortment of guns for hire, and a decent selection of hitman films all advertised during ball games, at bus stations, billboards, and elsewhere.
I guess the moral is, making a nuddie flick for money... bad... killing people for money... that's good wholesome family entertainment!!!! |
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10/16/2008 11:47:58 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I never said taking candid photos in the bath amounted to pedophilia, but if you start including genetalia, then yes, there is some concern. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Who said ANYTHING about genitalia????????
And yes, you DID make the pedophilia reference in context, so the inference would be that's what you meant by the comment.
Sir, you've now gone and made presumptions that are entirely off base.
How would you make this leap?
PLEASE explain? |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
No "leap" or "presumptions" at all (on my part). |
Okay....then explain the quote above.
It was neither germaine, nor mentioned previously. |
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10/16/2008 12:04:32 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by Trinch:
...killing people for money... that's good wholesome family entertainment!!!! |
No - that should be "bad" also...conservatives lost that battle. :-/ |
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10/16/2008 12:09:43 PM · #104 |
Excuse me...
Ahem-hem-hem
Penis.
That is all.
.
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10/16/2008 01:42:47 PM · #105 |
From another thread:
"Perhaps, we could all just ignore a certain someone completely from now on.... it's always one (maybe two) from the same source, over and over, in ways that scream "LOOK AT ME". We're not raising our voices in opposition, we're giving in to an obvious cry for attention." |
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10/17/2008 06:51:02 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by Marc923:
No, I'm not a parent. But if I were and my kid asked what porno meant. I'd simply explain it's a movie for adults. That's all you need. |
I have always found it pretty ridiculous to call a porno movie a movie for adults. That definition encompasses a lot of respectable movies and doesn't indicate to the child the horrible nature of pornography. How many guys out their are addicted to their internet porn? A lot if you consider what a huge money making industry this is. It's destructive to families. No porno's aren't movies for adults they are movies for little boys in men's bodies who never grew up into adulthood in their sexual attitudes and prefer to look at half the human race as holes to dump their bodily fluids into.
I've got no problem with the title of that movie or where they advertise it... it's just another opportunity to point out to my children how evil the world can be and warn them against it. |
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10/17/2008 07:19:00 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Marc923:
No, I'm not a parent. But if I were and my kid asked what porno meant. I'd simply explain it's a movie for adults. That's all you need. |
I have always found it pretty ridiculous to call a porno movie a movie for adults. That definition encompasses a lot of respectable movies and doesn't indicate to the child the horrible nature of pornography. How many guys out their are addicted to their internet porn? A lot if you consider what a huge money making industry this is. It's destructive to families. No porno's aren't movies for adults they are movies for little boys in men's bodies who never grew up into adulthood in their sexual attitudes and prefer to look at half the human race as holes to dump their bodily fluids into.
I've got no problem with the title of that movie or where they advertise it... it's just another opportunity to point out to my children how evil the world can be and warn them against it. |
I disagree.
While there may be lots of bad porn, it is changing to accommodate the tastes of a broader audience, not just pervy guys in trenchcoats. There are plenty of women who enjoy porn and plenty of couples that enjoy porn together as part of a healthy relationship. If it's not for you, fine, but don't mis-characterize it to suit your agenda. |
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10/17/2008 07:29:20 PM · #108 |
Oh no, plug your kid's ears! The movieSex Drive is being advertised... :P
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKUi8J_xGI
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10/17/2008 07:30:44 PM · #109 |
I saw that and wondered if I should bring it up. It looks like it could be kind of funny. |
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10/17/2008 07:39:59 PM · #110 |
Didnt read the thread at all-- not into ranting-- but would like to that the OP, cuz I'm a huge Kevin Smith fan and didnt know this movie was coming out--
Great trailer on IMDB (its a rated trailer -- meaning you have to be 17 to watch-- naughty words)-- have to be registered on IMBD to watch
Trailer
Billboards or not-- Ill be seeing this movie..
Rant on----
Bye :) |
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10/17/2008 09:08:20 PM · #111 |
I consider myself a liberal.I am a parent who has free and open dialogue with his children. I have definately gotten more conservative as I got older.
Given the hypothetical & despicable choice of having my kids watch 'Deep Throat' or 'Scarface' I would make the same choice every time.
However, I believe it is the general lowering of the bar by our society that has allowed for the making of the 2 movies mentioned above in the first place.
Would we really be any worse off if neither of these genres came into popularity?
I understand the need for artists to explore new ground and push the limits but sometimes I feel it is just lowering standards.
As usual the answer to these things seems to be at neither left/right extreme but somewhere in the middle ground which generally is an area called 'common sense'. |
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10/17/2008 09:21:15 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by buzzrock:
Didnt read the thread at all-- not into ranting-- but would like to that the OP, cuz I'm a huge Kevin Smith fan and didnt know this movie was coming out--
Great trailer on IMDB (its a rated trailer -- meaning you have to be 17 to watch-- naughty words)-- have to be registered on IMBD to watch
Trailer
Billboards or not-- Ill be seeing this movie..
Rant on----
Bye :) |
Saw a commercial for it on FOX last night. Actually looks pretty funny. |
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10/17/2008 10:17:27 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Marc923:
No, I'm not a parent. But if I were and my kid asked what porno meant. I'd simply explain it's a movie for adults. That's all you need. |
I have always found it pretty ridiculous to call a porno movie a movie for adults. That definition encompasses a lot of respectable movies and doesn't indicate to the child the horrible nature of pornography. How many guys out their are addicted to their internet porn? A lot if you consider what a huge money making industry this is. It's destructive to families. No porno's aren't movies for adults they are movies for little boys in men's bodies who never grew up into adulthood in their sexual attitudes and prefer to look at half the human race as holes to dump their bodily fluids into.
I've got no problem with the title of that movie or where they advertise it... it's just another opportunity to point out to my children how evil the world can be and warn them against it. |
I disagree.
While there may be lots of bad porn, it is changing to accommodate the tastes of a broader audience, not just pervy guys in trenchcoats. There are plenty of women who enjoy porn and plenty of couples that enjoy porn together as part of a healthy relationship. If it's not for you, fine, but don't mis-characterize it to suit your agenda. |
I don't have an agenda. I don't think that the people addicted to internet porn are pervy guys in trenchcoats either as porn's influence on people has moved well beyond that as even you admit that it is becoming 'mainstream'. Just because more people are watching it does not negate it's negative effects on people's sexual attitudes towards women. Even if women are participating in the consumption: that only shows that they are accepting of their gender being degraded. I'm sure their are degrees of porn but most of it is geared towards men who aren't enjoying it with their spouse and even if they are you can bet that nearly 100% of it is being 'acted' out by those who are not married or even in a relationship. There is a lot wrong with people who have no relationship, other than just the fact they are being paid, having sex with one another for the enjoyment of others.
I don't expect that everyone will agree with my assessment and that's fine. I'll state again that I do not have an agenda. I'm not trying to accomplish anything. Just throwing my thoughts out there for anybody who wants to read it. |
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10/17/2008 11:31:46 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Marc923:
No, I'm not a parent. But if I were and my kid asked what porno meant. I'd simply explain it's a movie for adults. That's all you need. |
I have always found it pretty ridiculous to call a porno movie a movie for adults. That definition encompasses a lot of respectable movies and doesn't indicate to the child the horrible nature of pornography. How many guys out their are addicted to their internet porn? A lot if you consider what a huge money making industry this is. It's destructive to families. No porno's aren't movies for adults they are movies for little boys in men's bodies who never grew up into adulthood in their sexual attitudes and prefer to look at half the human race as holes to dump their bodily fluids into.
I've got no problem with the title of that movie or where they advertise it... it's just another opportunity to point out to my children how evil the world can be and warn them against it. |
I disagree.
While there may be lots of bad porn, it is changing to accommodate the tastes of a broader audience, not just pervy guys in trenchcoats. There are plenty of women who enjoy porn and plenty of couples that enjoy porn together as part of a healthy relationship. If it's not for you, fine, but don't mis-characterize it to suit your agenda. |
I don't have an agenda. I don't think that the people addicted to internet porn are pervy guys in trenchcoats either as porn's influence on people has moved well beyond that as even you admit that it is becoming 'mainstream'. Just because more people are watching it does not negate it's negative effects on people's sexual attitudes towards women. Even if women are participating in the consumption: that only shows that they are accepting of their gender being degraded. I'm sure their are degrees of porn but most of it is geared towards men who aren't enjoying it with their spouse and even if they are you can bet that nearly 100% of it is being 'acted' out by those who are not married or even in a relationship. There is a lot wrong with people who have no relationship, other than just the fact they are being paid, having sex with one another for the enjoyment of others.
I don't expect that everyone will agree with my assessment and that's fine. I'll state again that I do not have an agenda. I'm not trying to accomplish anything. Just throwing my thoughts out there for anybody who wants to read it. |
Why do you think all porn is necessarily degrading to women?
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10/18/2008 12:04:03 AM · #115 |
Originally posted by MichaelC:
However, I believe it is the general lowering of the bar by our society that has allowed for the making of the 2 movies mentioned above in the first place.
Would we really be any worse off if neither of these genres came into popularity? |
Pornography, and hedonistic sexual behavior in general, has been around since time immemorial. So, of course, has violence, and the glorification of violence by society. We can debate all we want about whether the new media-based world has pushed these things to an extreme, but nevertheless they've always been with us.
As far as violence goes, I think we're deluding ourselves if we think that somehow we have reached, in this society, a nadir of violence. That's simply not true. Even now, in other places on the earth than America, violence is so much more extreme and prevalent than it is here, and of course in earlier ages it was positively epidemic. Granted, the popular depictions of it now are growing ever more senselessly and luridly graphic, but that's just the "lipstick on the pig" (jejeje)...
I'm NOT "condoning" or championing violence and pornography here, btw; I'm just laying a little perspective down on where we've come from...
R. |
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10/18/2008 03:07:25 AM · #116 |
Robert, I think we are in agreement. There will always be a market for this stuff (and should be) which is why I said 'popularity' instead of 'existence'. I just wish it wasn't so "out there" & "in your face".
Now before I start getting accused of any repression & hypocrisy and hear all the yells of "openess", I just believe certain subjects such as the 2 we have been discussing should not be in the public forum as much as they are and discussion/display should be in a more private forum for those that wish to participate rather than having it foisted on the general public.
"Masturbation" would be a good example of a subject that most folks would have differing opinions on, however, it is not a subject that the majority of society want discussed in public. Yet it is much more a natural part of the average person's life than violence & porn.
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10/18/2008 03:18:15 AM · #117 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Trinch:
...killing people for money... that's good wholesome family entertainment!!!! |
No - that should be "bad" also...conservatives lost that battle. :-/ |
You say that with a straight face when the Terminator himself is the Governor of the most populous state in the nation ??? ;-) |
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10/18/2008 12:53:44 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why do you think all porn is necessarily degrading to women? |
I cannot speak to every single piece of pornography but the mere fact that the sexuality of women is being exploited for the viewing pleasure of millions of horny men who have no other thought towards her other than her physical qualities I feel degrades women into a collection of body parts with no other redeeming characteristic. Porn often if not always takes the position that women are here to service the men sexually. That to me is degrading of the female gender. I think our society as a whole degrades women as nothing but sexual objects in our entertainment but it reaches it's most blatant and undeniable peak when it comes to pornography. |
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10/18/2008 01:42:00 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why do you think all porn is necessarily degrading to women? |
I cannot speak to every single piece of pornography but the mere fact that the sexuality of women is being exploited for the viewing pleasure of millions of horny men who have no other thought towards her other than her physical qualities I feel degrades women into a collection of body parts with no other redeeming characteristic. Porn often if not always takes the position that women are here to service the men sexually. That to me is degrading of the female gender. I think our society as a whole degrades women as nothing but sexual objects in our entertainment but it reaches it's most blatant and undeniable peak when it comes to pornography. |
Why do women do it then? The only thing dirty about pornography is your dirty mind, not that yours is any dirtier than someone else. Porn is a record of a sexual act usually between two consenting adults. Do you not have sex? I don't like opera, it always gives me a headache and I never understand anything they're saying. Do I go to the opera, no. Do I read articles about opera, no. I avoid it at all costs because I do not like to be exposed to it. It's an easy task actually, and it makes me wonder why people don't do the same with pornography and other things they don't like.
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10/18/2008 02:17:54 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why do you think all porn is necessarily degrading to women? |
I cannot speak to every single piece of pornography but the mere fact that the sexuality of women is being exploited for the viewing pleasure of millions of horny men who have no other thought towards her other than her physical qualities I feel degrades women into a collection of body parts with no other redeeming characteristic. Porn often if not always takes the position that women are here to service the men sexually. That to me is degrading of the female gender. I think our society as a whole degrades women as nothing but sexual objects in our entertainment but it reaches it's most blatant and undeniable peak when it comes to pornography. |
Why do women do it then? The only thing dirty about pornography is your dirty mind, not that yours is any dirtier than someone else. Porn is a record of a sexual act usually between two consenting adults. Do you not have sex? I don't like opera, it always gives me a headache and I never understand anything they're saying. Do I go to the opera, no. Do I read articles about opera, no. I avoid it at all costs because I do not like to be exposed to it. It's an easy task actually, and it makes me wonder why people don't do the same with pornography and other things they don't like. |
I agree Jack, opera sucks! And so do some porn actors :P |
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10/18/2008 02:40:32 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by JMart:
I agree Jack, opera sucks! And so do some porn actors :P |
Ha ha, I get it. |
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10/18/2008 03:04:18 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why do you think all porn is necessarily degrading to women? |
I cannot speak to every single piece of pornography but the mere fact that the sexuality of women is being exploited for the viewing pleasure of millions of horny men who have no other thought towards her other than her physical qualities I feel degrades women into a collection of body parts with no other redeeming characteristic. Porn often if not always takes the position that women are here to service the men sexually. That to me is degrading of the female gender. I think our society as a whole degrades women as nothing but sexual objects in our entertainment but it reaches it's most blatant and undeniable peak when it comes to pornography. |
What about the sexuality of the men involved? Do you feel that their sexuality is being exploited?
"Porn often if not always takes the position that women are here to service the man sexually." In some cases, yes, and to some people, men AND women, that sort of thing is what they enjoy. The same could be said for the man serving the needs of the woman. In most situations, it's absolutely mutual. In any event, the people acting in the film are there of their own free will. They make porn because they want to, not because there's a gun to their head. If anything, it's the women in porn that have the control over what happens, what things they will and will not do.
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10/18/2008 03:29:06 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
"Porn often if not always takes the position that women are here to service the man sexually." In some cases, yes, and to some people, men AND women, that sort of thing is what they enjoy. The same could be said for the man serving the needs of the woman. In most situations, it's absolutely mutual. In any event, the people acting in the film are there of their own free will. They make porn because they want to, not because there's a gun to their head. If anything, it's the women in porn that have the control over what happens, what things they will and will not do. |
That's fine, but just for the sake of argument, the fact that people might, hypothetically, participate of their own free will in an industry founded on the degrading of women does not alter the fact that the degrading happens. It's not the condition of the actors and actresses that concerns us, it's the quality or essence of the output that matters.
R. |
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10/18/2008 04:25:22 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
"Porn often if not always takes the position that women are here to service the man sexually." In some cases, yes, and to some people, men AND women, that sort of thing is what they enjoy. The same could be said for the man serving the needs of the woman. In most situations, it's absolutely mutual. In any event, the people acting in the film are there of their own free will. They make porn because they want to, not because there's a gun to their head. If anything, it's the women in porn that have the control over what happens, what things they will and will not do. |
That's fine, but just for the sake of argument, the fact that people might, hypothetically, participate of their own free will in an industry founded on the degrading of women does not alter the fact that the degrading happens. It's not the condition of the actors and actresses that concerns us, it's the quality or essence of the output that matters.
R. |
So you're saying it's bad because it promotes the degradation of women in general? If so, what would you suggest be done about it? |
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10/18/2008 04:33:08 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by yanko:
So you're saying it's bad because it promotes the degradation of women in general? If so, what would you suggest be done about it? |
No, I'm not getting into that. I am just pointing out the logical fallacy in that particular argument; the willingness of the participants to engage in the making of the product is irrelevant to the value of the product. What, if anything, we should do about it I do not know.
R.
Message edited by author 2008-10-18 16:33:29. |
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