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10/03/2008 08:33:46 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by ralph:
we are taxed
for that we get:
roads
garbage pickup
sewer
clean water
snowplows in the winter
street sweepers in the summer
we get to give to the arts, forgien aid, the disposed or the incapapble
police, prisons, a fair justice system
education k-12 & subsidized post secondary
armed forces / domestic & abroad
(& in canada we get heath care)
customs / imigration / food inspectors/ basic research / libraries / public transpertation ..
i'm sure i'm missing a few things ...
Pardon me .. what is the complaint ??
or what would you do without ? & how many people wouuld be harmed by the lack of funding ?
the greater good is funded by our taxes .. shouldn't we put in our fair share ?
i pay alot of taxes (+40% income 13% consumption & plenty in property taxes etc .. ) .. & i do not begrudge the money sent .. |
Sounds like socialism to me.
Provide for a common defense and insure the GENERAL welfare.
In most place that have street sweepers and public sanitation, that is paid for monthly by the users.
Schools get money from property taxes as well as the Federal teet. But education is not a function of the federal government, it's a local thing. Too much centralization stifles competition and improvement. Kids learned much better 50 years ago than they do now, because of all the regulations and policies put into place to "level" the playing field.
Reduce taxes on everyone as Bush properly did, yes, including the rich who already pay more than their fair share. Reduction at the top creates jobs as well as giving opportunties for everyone to be charitable (as it should be). PEOPLE should decide where they wish to give in donation and what arts they support. The government should not be deciding what programs and artwork is worthy of tax dollars -- because none of it is.
A very minimal basic "safety net" is required. Not the bloat we have now. |
More of the same .....
/rant
Do you read your posts Hawkeye? You spew the same crap over and over and I now believe you really do think like that, I thought it was a show at first. Or maybe you are just trying to emulate your heroes because you see them doing it you think it's OK to spew the same bullshit? You're a relic like McCain. You belong in history, like racism, bigotry, and the confederates, all but forgotten.
/rant over |
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10/03/2008 08:40:29 AM · #27 |
Insulting? If they are abusing the system, then they're a dirtbag or should I say...freeloading dirtbag? Is that better?
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by Chinabun:
They do in Baltimore. That's why the democrats always win in our state. All the republican votes come from the suburbs and since Baltimore is so big and populated with dirtbag abusers, I'll have to keep supporting them.
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by Chinabun:
You forgot the welfare for people who CAN work, but choose to be lazy crackheads with five kids. People who DONT pay taxes shouldn't be able to vote.
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As if they vote now. lol |
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How insulting can you get? I hope you don't work for the government. |
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10/03/2008 08:40:38 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by ralph:
we are taxed
for that we get:
roads
garbage pickup
sewer
clean water
snowplows in the winter
street sweepers in the summer
we get to give to the arts, forgien aid, the disposed or the incapapble
police, prisons, a fair justice system
education k-12 & subsidized post secondary
armed forces / domestic & abroad
(& in canada we get heath care)
customs / imigration / food inspectors/ basic research / libraries / public transpertation ..
i'm sure i'm missing a few things ...
Pardon me .. what is the complaint ??
or what would you do without ? & how many people wouuld be harmed by the lack of funding ?
the greater good is funded by our taxes .. shouldn't we put in our fair share ?
i pay alot of taxes (+40% income 13% consumption & plenty in property taxes etc .. ) .. & i do not begrudge the money sent .. |
Sounds like socialism to me.
Provide for a common defense and insure the GENERAL welfare.
In most place that have street sweepers and public sanitation, that is paid for monthly by the users.
Schools get money from property taxes as well as the Federal teet. But education is not a function of the federal government, it's a local thing. Too much centralization stifles competition and improvement. Kids learned much better 50 years ago than they do now, because of all the regulations and policies put into place to "level" the playing field.
Reduce taxes on everyone as Bush properly did, yes, including the rich who already pay more than their fair share. Reduction at the top creates jobs as well as giving opportunties for everyone to be charitable (as it should be). PEOPLE should decide where they wish to give in donation and what arts they support. The government should not be deciding what programs and artwork is worthy of tax dollars -- because none of it is.
A very minimal basic "safety net" is required. Not the bloat we have now. |
More of the same .....
/rant
Do you read your posts Hawkeye? You spew the same crap over and over and I now believe you really do think like that, I thought it was a show at first. Or maybe you are just trying to emulate your heroes because you see them doing it you think it's OK to spew the same bullshit? You're a relic like McCain. You belong in history, like racism, bigotry, and the confederates, all but forgotten.
/rant over |
Yep, I read them. They're true and a good read.
Have a nice day.
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10/03/2008 08:41:08 AM · #29 |
For me taxes are kinda a catch 22. I do concrete, and normally I would be installing curb, sidewalks in large subdivisions, and businesses. This year I would probably be worse for wear if not for the large federally funded airport being located here in St. George, UT. So I might bitch a little about taxes, it is also something that will keep food on the table for the next 5 years or so..
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10/03/2008 08:42:28 AM · #30 |
Actually, unless you are implying that every democrat is on welfare, your comment about Baltimore being full of "dirtbag abusers" is inaccurate. It's a known fact that democrats are more likely to populate urban centers, and therefore believe things like public transport are a necessary thing. If you don't believe me, you can look into how the various polling systems are weighted based on population distribution.
As for the comment of Mccain being the past... a more realistic explanation is that he is the future, as republicans of the past never behaved in the way that republicans (read as: Neoconservative) of today do. The republicans of today tend to meddle far more with personal affairs than in the past, increase spending, possibly add bureaucracy, and decided to have a definitively strong religious influence and/or slant, none of which used to be the case. |
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10/03/2008 08:52:47 AM · #31 |
I did look it up. I've lived here my whole life so I think I would know how my state works. Also, never said every democrat is on welfare. I said all the welfare abusers ARE DEMOCRATS and Baltimore City is full of WELFARE ABUSERS. Which means that they should not be able to vote because they dont PAY TAXES. If they're not putting anything into society why should they get a vote, when all they do is TAKE TAKE TAKE. They need to get a job, get off drugs, and stop having kids. When that happens then they should have voting rights and if YOU CANT FEEDEM DONT BREEDEM!
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Actually, unless you are implying that every democrat is on welfare, your comment about Baltimore being full of "dirtbag abusers" is inaccurate. It's a known fact that democrats are more likely to populate urban centers, and therefore believe things like public transport are a necessary thing. If you don't believe me, you can look into how the various polling systems are weighted based on population distribution.
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Message edited by author 2008-10-03 08:56:28. |
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10/03/2008 08:57:38 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Sounds like socialism to me.
Provide for a common defense and insure the GENERAL welfare.
In most place that have street sweepers and public sanitation, that is paid for monthly by the users.
Schools get money from property taxes as well as the Federal teet. But education is not a function of the federal government, it's a local thing. Too much centralization stifles competition and improvement. Kids learned much better 50 years ago than they do now, because of all the regulations and policies put into place to "level" the playing field. |
yes it is - most could not survive in purely capitalistic environment..
the general welfare is what you pay your taxes for / to help everyone & not be so self centered that my pay check is more important than "Bob, Jane .."
In the US, state schools (college) are subsidized / to much little centralization caused redundancies & makes things more expensive..
thing were always better in the golden age N years ago, with the Cleavers a nice black & white world everybody was very happy back then right ??!!
I would rather live in a place were EVERYBODY was taken care of rather than the privileged few .. so like i said / i pay tax , lots of tax for the greater good
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10/03/2008 09:08:05 AM · #33 |
| You are misunderstanding my point. My point is that ALL urban areas are more likely to hold democrats regardless. Just as you can make generalizations about welfare democrats I, too, can make generalizations about how every republican is some rich white male in the middle of the south that owns a tobacco plantation and uses tax loopholes to make himself rich, overpay himself and underpay his workers. I am not doubting the fact that there are large numbers of individuals who are on welfare and/or homeless (many cases the same thing) in Baltimore. I am pointing out that ALL urban centers lean to the left compared to the area around them. Unless the majority of Baltimore is comprised of "dirtbag abusers" the left leaning of the city would be unrelated to your reasoning. Urban centers also have a far higher homeless rate- many of which are homeless and can't "get a job" because of the high correlation between the homeless and mental illness. I agree 100% about out of control reproduction rates. I work in healthcare and know all too well about this. |
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10/03/2008 09:09:45 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by ralph:
we are taxed
for that we get:
roads
garbage pickup
sewer
clean water
snowplows in the winter
street sweepers in the summer
we get to give to the arts, forgien aid, the disposed or the incapapble
police, prisons, a fair justice system
education k-12 & subsidized post secondary
armed forces / domestic & abroad
(& in canada we get heath care)
customs / imigration / food inspectors/ basic research / libraries / public transpertation ..
i'm sure i'm missing a few things ...
Pardon me .. what is the complaint ??
or what would you do without ? & how many people wouuld be harmed by the lack of funding ?
the greater good is funded by our taxes .. shouldn't we put in our fair share ?
i pay alot of taxes (+40% income 13% consumption & plenty in property taxes etc .. ) .. & i do not begrudge the money sent .. |
Sounds like socialism to me.
Provide for a common defense and insure the GENERAL welfare.
In most place that have street sweepers and public sanitation, that is paid for monthly by the users.
Schools get money from property taxes as well as the Federal teet. But education is not a function of the federal government, it's a local thing. Too much centralization stifles competition and improvement. Kids learned much better 50 years ago than they do now, because of all the regulations and policies put into place to "level" the playing field.
Reduce taxes on everyone as Bush properly did, yes, including the rich who already pay more than their fair share. Reduction at the top creates jobs as well as giving opportunties for everyone to be charitable (as it should be). PEOPLE should decide where they wish to give in donation and what arts they support. The government should not be deciding what programs and artwork is worthy of tax dollars -- because none of it is.
A very minimal basic "safety net" is required. Not the bloat we have now. |
More of the same .....
/rant
Do you read your posts Hawkeye? You spew the same crap over and over and I now believe you really do think like that, I thought it was a show at first. Or maybe you are just trying to emulate your heroes because you see them doing it you think it's OK to spew the same bullshit? You're a relic like McCain. You belong in history, like racism, bigotry, and the confederates, all but forgotten.
/rant over |
I'm surprised this hasn't made it to 'Rant' yet. Guess it will soon enough.
Jac - What part of the response that Hawkeye made puts you in such a bad mood? Was it that he dared make a post at all and your reaction was to his existence period? Or was there something specific he said that you disagree with. Hawkeye's post reads like a well made point from my POV. |
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10/03/2008 09:10:15 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Kids learned much better 50 years ago than they do now, because of all the regulations and policies put into place to "level" the playing field. |
Try essentially no TV, no internet, no video games, and more imaginative play time. |
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10/03/2008 09:11:26 AM · #36 |
Something to think about Here
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 09:17:33. |
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10/03/2008 09:16:22 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by ralph:
we are taxed
for that we get:
roads
garbage pickup
sewer
clean water
snowplows in the winter
street sweepers in the summer
we get to give to the arts, forgien aid, the disposed or the incapapble
police, prisons, a fair justice system
education k-12 & subsidized post secondary
armed forces / domestic & abroad
(& in canada we get heath care)
customs / imigration / food inspectors/ basic research / libraries / public transpertation ..
i'm sure i'm missing a few things ...
Pardon me .. what is the complaint ??
or what would you do without ? & how many people wouuld be harmed by the lack of funding ?
the greater good is funded by our taxes .. shouldn't we put in our fair share ?
i pay alot of taxes (+40% income 13% consumption & plenty in property taxes etc .. ) .. & i do not begrudge the money sent .. |
Sounds like socialism to me.
Provide for a common defense and insure the GENERAL welfare.
In most place that have street sweepers and public sanitation, that is paid for monthly by the users.
Schools get money from property taxes as well as the Federal teet. But education is not a function of the federal government, it's a local thing. Too much centralization stifles competition and improvement. Kids learned much better 50 years ago than they do now, because of all the regulations and policies put into place to "level" the playing field.
Reduce taxes on everyone as Bush properly did, yes, including the rich who already pay more than their fair share. Reduction at the top creates jobs as well as giving opportunties for everyone to be charitable (as it should be). PEOPLE should decide where they wish to give in donation and what arts they support. The government should not be deciding what programs and artwork is worthy of tax dollars -- because none of it is.
A very minimal basic "safety net" is required. Not the bloat we have now. |
More of the same .....
/rant
Do you read your posts Hawkeye? You spew the same crap over and over and I now believe you really do think like that, I thought it was a show at first. Or maybe you are just trying to emulate your heroes because you see them doing it you think it's OK to spew the same bullshit? You're a relic like McCain. You belong in history, like racism, bigotry, and the confederates, all but forgotten.
/rant over |
I'm surprised this hasn't made it to 'Rant' yet. Guess it will soon enough.
Jac - What part of the response that Hawkeye made puts you in such a bad mood? Was it that he dared make a post at all and your reaction was to his existence period? Or was there something specific he said that you disagree with. Hawkeye's post reads like a well made point from my POV. |
He'll really love this: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pPP6urgmUU :)
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10/03/2008 09:16:56 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Kids learned much better 50 years ago than they do now, because of all the regulations and policies put into place to "level" the playing field. |
Try essentially no TV, no internet, no video games, and more imaginative play time. |
Those definitely lend to it as well, not doubt. But they are a part of the problem just like the items I listed.
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10/03/2008 09:17:33 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by ancientimages:
Something to think about Here |
DU(h).com never offers anything worth thinking about as there is never any thinking going on. Wow... I take it back! I'm surprised they let such a post stand.
Try this: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pPP6urgmUU
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 09:18:47.
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10/03/2008 09:17:58 AM · #40 |
| JAC and SPIRIT - I dont have a problem with people who NEED welfare. I have a problem with people who abuse it and can help themselves in some way. My mom was on welfare until I was 3 but she also worked and then helped herself get a better job so she wouldn't have to depend on free income. Just because I don't agree with supporting freeloaders doesn't make me a "redneck supremacist". I actually don't even know what you meant by that term. You sound like you are defending people with mental disorders, disabled, etc., which I never said anything about people who need welfare. I said ABUSERS. My nephew is disabled and he gets a disability check because he NEEDS it. Not because he's lazy and doesn't want to try and help himself. |
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10/03/2008 09:20:56 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Chinabun:
JAC and SPIRIT - I dont have a problem with people who NEED welfare. I have a problem with people who abuse it and can help themselves in some way. My mom was on welfare until I was 3 but she also worked and then helped herself get a better job so she wouldn't have to depend on free income. Just because I don't agree with supporting freeloaders doesn't make me a "redneck supremacist". I actually don't even know what you meant by that term. You sound like you are defending people with mental disorders, disabled, etc., which I never said anything about people who need welfare. I said ABUSERS. My nephew is disabled and he gets a disability check because he NEEDS it. Not because he's lazy and doesn't want to try and help himself. |
Save you breath/fingers. Jac won't listen to anyone outside his little echo chamber.
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 10:06:00. |
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10/03/2008 09:26:25 AM · #42 |
Thanks, HawkeyeLonewolf...
the same info, including the original column written during the Reagan administration, can be found on sites ranging from ultra-conservative to ultra-liberal. I think the message is.. we can discuss and complain til the cows come home, but we (the voters) do have the power to do something about it.
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10/03/2008 09:32:20 AM · #43 |
what we need is a $700 billion tax payer bail out / buy out of corporate bad debt so those corporations can stay afloat and continue on with their poor business practices.
the feds will in the long run pull a huge profit from our dollars buying all that bad debt. that profit will -of course - 100% be returned to those that funded the buy out ( tax payers ). the feds realize the potential of this arrangement and start regulating business transactions further taking a piece of every single transaction that takes place and then again all that profit is returned to the taxpayers. in essence we as taxpayers actually get paid by the feds to live in our country.
hehe - yeah that'll be the day pigs fly, horses talk, donkeys ride bicycles, and elephants play bridge.
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 09:33:59.
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10/03/2008 09:39:42 AM · #44 |
| I'm not attacking you, and I agree with your stance against freeloaders, but I also think that a lot of people are very hardline about such things and aren't looking at the roots of the issue (IE- homelessness, drug abuse). There is a reason why people cannot stop drugs- addiction. This is not an excuse for them, but I am saying they require treatment. When they do not receive treatment they continue their behavior. I proposed that generalization not because I am hinting that all republicans are such, but to illustrate how faulted crass generalizations are. I'll be the first to say that people are nanny'd too much by society. I was just trying to focus on a couple causes of the pattern you see, not undermine your observation that Baltimore votes democratic. |
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10/03/2008 09:40:31 AM · #45 |
What for me is interesting about politics and taxes in most countries is that:
- The politicians promise not to increase the taxes
- The general public is alergic to taxes and will vote down anyone who increases taxes
- The politicians increase government debt to cover their spending
I would argue that increasing the government debt, like president Bush has been doing the past 8 years, is an indirect way of increasing taxes. The only advantage is that it postpones taxes, the disadvantage is that not you will have to pay more now, but your children later. One way or another this money has to be payed off, either by higher taxes or less government spending.
So with the current huge debt that the US government has created, it would be very wise to increase taxes gradually the next 10 years, or your children will suffer. I believe that by now on average every American has a hidden tax debt of 30000 US Dollars....
But no politician will tell you that.
And no the US is not alone in this. Most Western governments do this, including mine and I hate them for it.
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10/03/2008 09:46:31 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
increasing the government debt, like president Bush has been doing the past 8 years, |
I'd like to quietly point out that the president doesn't hold the purse strings. Congress does.
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10/03/2008 09:48:35 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by chesire:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
increasing the government debt, like president Bush has been doing the past 8 years, |
I'd like to quietly point out that the president doesn't hold the purse strings. Congress does. |
Who dominated Congress the last couple of years?
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10/03/2008 09:53:45 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by chesire:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
increasing the government debt, like president Bush has been doing the past 8 years, |
I'd like to quietly point out that the president doesn't hold the purse strings. Congress does. |
Who dominated Congress the last couple of years? |
Exactly!
And who, in 1993 forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to start taking on high risk loans? Um, the Clinton Administration (not blaming Clinton personally, but his Admin).
And Barney Frank has had oversight on that for years and because he was a) having an affair with a man at Freddie and Fannie (Frank was in charge of Fannie? Chuckle anyone?) and b) inept, he failed to warn about the corruption and problems there.
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 10:05:50. |
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10/03/2008 10:12:37 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by chesire:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
increasing the government debt, like president Bush has been doing the past 8 years, |
I'd like to quietly point out that the president doesn't hold the purse strings. Congress does. |
Who dominated Congress the last couple of years? |
Exactly!
And who, in 1993 forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to start taking on high risk loans? Um, the Clinton Administration (not blaming Clinton personally, but his Admin).
And Barney Frank has had oversight on that for years and because he was a) having an affair with a man at Freddie and Fannie (Frank was in charge of Fannie? Chuckle anyone?) and b) inept, he failed to warn about the corruption and problems there. |
Who forced people to actually sign for stuff they couldn't afford?
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10/03/2008 10:18:02 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by chesire:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
increasing the government debt, like president Bush has been doing the past 8 years, |
I'd like to quietly point out that the president doesn't hold the purse strings. Congress does. |
Who dominated Congress the last couple of years? |
Exactly!
And who, in 1993 forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to start taking on high risk loans? Um, the Clinton Administration (not blaming Clinton personally, but his Admin).
And Barney Frank has had oversight on that for years and because he was a) having an affair with a man at Freddie and Fannie (Frank was in charge of Fannie? Chuckle anyone?) and b) inept, he failed to warn about the corruption and problems there. |
Who forced people to actually sign for stuff they couldn't afford? |
You're correct there. The blame is on both the Clinton Admin as well as the homeowners. But when someone dangles a food in front of a hungry person, they most likely will take it without thinking. |
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