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09/30/2008 03:15:28 PM · #201 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think a lot of folks are pretty sure there's a depression coming no matter what, and we don't particularly care whether those stockbrokers have to start flippin' a few burgers for "the King" ... |
Ha! Maybe we'll start to see some decent service at "the King" and others! Lately , at least here, they really suck 'cause they are all run by less than motivated teens and young adults..... the last of the worker pool for our area. (the better workers went for the better jobs 'cause there are plenty of jobs in our local market currently)
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09/30/2008 03:21:18 PM · #202 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by srdanz:
I'm also pretty sure that credit-worthy people/companies will be able to get a credit. Unless there is an evidence that a substantial number of individuals/companies with good credit rating and healthy business plan has been denied a loan, then I won't believe the panic spreading mouths spitting nonsense... |
It's certainly possible that the unanimous opinions of Warren Buffet, the Treasury Secretary, Fed chairman and SEC chairman are wrong on matters of the economy, but it's probably fair to say none of us here have enough real knowledge of the situation to label it nonsense. |
It doesn't take a financial genius to see that handing over giving $700B dollars to Paulson, who will have absolute discretion over its use is letting the fox guard the henhouse. If you're looking to place blame for the current mess, he should be one of your prime targets.
I'd also wager that none of those people are worrying about the impact on the ordinary person as they are on the wealthy (themselves). |
Wow. I agree with Spazmo. |
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09/30/2008 03:21:44 PM · #203 |
Originally posted by Ristyz:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think a lot of folks are pretty sure there's a depression coming no matter what, and we don't particularly care whether those stockbrokers have to start flippin' a few burgers for "the King" ... |
Ha! Maybe we'll start to see some decent service at "the King" and others! Lately , at least here, they really suck 'cause they are all run by less than motivated teens and young adults..... the last of the worker pool for our area. (the better workers went for the better jobs 'cause there are plenty of jobs in our local market currently) |
I'm curious to see whether those folks will work for the Federal minimum wage. |
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09/30/2008 03:26:28 PM · #204 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by srdanz:
I'm also pretty sure that credit-worthy people/companies will be able to get a credit. Unless there is an evidence that a substantial number of individuals/companies with good credit rating and healthy business plan has been denied a loan, then I won't believe the panic spreading mouths spitting nonsense... |
It's certainly possible that the unanimous opinions of Warren Buffet, the Treasury Secretary, Fed chairman and SEC chairman are wrong on matters of the economy, but it's probably fair to say none of us here have enough real knowledge of the situation to label it nonsense. |
I certainly would not go as far as calling bs on Warren Buffet. What I'm talking about is the representation of the perceived state of the affairs by people with the agenda. To make things worse, those people (media) have no agenda of their own, they play for someone or something that they think is good.
All I'm saying is, all those people you mentioned had the job of following the affairs. (Including Mr. Buffet, who did not work for the gov't but is definitively working in the industry.)
And we are suddenly led to believe that these people suddenly realized that the shit hit the fan, while 30 days ago it was business as usual. This type of crisis does not happen overnight. Enron, maybe. If I had the time (and I might do that tonight), I'll find a thread on this very site where we've discussed credit crisis in the US and the ultimate inability to maintain the spending rate at which we were going. If we here were able to suspect that, I must imagine that someone up there had a hunch along the same lines.
Why not wait till november, and try again?
I do not buy the crisis until I see it. I do not see it. I only see handwaving and I need concrete examples. Kinda like God/god. Maybe I should just believe. |
Quite honestly, I believe that Buffett did see this coming. His company has been sitting on 40 billion in cash. Why would a company/investment firm sit on that much money? He saw the shit storm coming and knew he would be able to use those funds to acquire a multitude of strong investments for dirt cheap at the right moment, which he already has been doing.
ETA:\\I think that the fact that Buffett is acquiring in this time of crisis points to the direction that this will turn around. The man is no dummy to invest in a broken system.
Message edited by author 2008-09-30 15:30:44. |
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09/30/2008 03:26:55 PM · #205 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
I do not buy the crisis until I see it. I do not see it. I only see handwaving and I need concrete examples. Kinda like God/god. Maybe I should just believe. |
Here?
here?
here?
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09/30/2008 03:34:37 PM · #206 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
Originally posted by srdanz:
I do not buy the crisis until I see it. I do not see it. I only see handwaving and I need concrete examples. Kinda like God/god. Maybe I should just believe. |
Here?
here?
here? |
Now, I don't have time to read them all at the moment but i did skim over the first link (the Time article).
Am I reading it correctly when the main problem being presented is that people with bad credit won't be able to get a loan?
Weird concept. |
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09/30/2008 03:34:59 PM · #207 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by srdanz:
I'm also pretty sure that credit-worthy people/companies will be able to get a credit. Unless there is an evidence that a substantial number of individuals/companies with good credit rating and healthy business plan has been denied a loan, then I won't believe the panic spreading mouths spitting nonsense... |
It's certainly possible that the unanimous opinions of Warren Buffet, the Treasury Secretary, Fed chairman and SEC chairman are wrong on matters of the economy, but it's probably fair to say none of us here have enough real knowledge of the situation to label it nonsense. |
It doesn't take a financial genius to see that handing over giving $700B dollars to Paulson, who will have absolute discretion over its use is letting the fox guard the henhouse. If you're looking to place blame for the current mess, he should be one of your prime targets.
I'd also wager that none of those people are worrying about the impact on the ordinary person as they are on the wealthy (themselves). |
Wow. I agree with Spazmo. |
It's going to start with the locusts and raining frogs next... |
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09/30/2008 03:36:26 PM · #208 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by srdanz:
I'm also pretty sure that credit-worthy people/companies will be able to get a credit. Unless there is an evidence that a substantial number of individuals/companies with good credit rating and healthy business plan has been denied a loan, then I won't believe the panic spreading mouths spitting nonsense... |
It's certainly possible that the unanimous opinions of Warren Buffet, the Treasury Secretary, Fed chairman and SEC chairman are wrong on matters of the economy, but it's probably fair to say none of us here have enough real knowledge of the situation to label it nonsense. |
It doesn't take a financial genius to see that handing over giving $700B dollars to Paulson, who will have absolute discretion over its use is letting the fox guard the henhouse. If you're looking to place blame for the current mess, he should be one of your prime targets.
I'd also wager that none of those people are worrying about the impact on the ordinary person as they are on the wealthy (themselves). |
Wow. I agree with Spazmo. |
Things are bad when this starts happening:) |
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09/30/2008 03:41:37 PM · #209 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
Originally posted by srdanz:
I do not buy the crisis until I see it. I do not see it. I only see handwaving and I need concrete examples. Kinda like God/god. Maybe I should just believe. |
Here?
here?
here? |
Not everybody should have unbounded credit.
I say that denying credit to some people who would have gotten credit before is probably going to happen anyway and probably should have happened sooner. |
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09/30/2008 03:43:06 PM · #210 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
Originally posted by srdanz:
I do not buy the crisis until I see it. I do not see it. I only see handwaving and I need concrete examples. Kinda like God/god. Maybe I should just believe. |
Here?
here?
here? |
What did you answer with these?
the first one talks about less credit card offers going out, and a tighter control over whom to offer a credit line? The second one talks about a person not being able to get a new truck for $3000 down, while at the same time talks about persons with verifiable income and good credit not having any trouble securing loans? The third one also talking about tightening rules for giving out credit?
This is exactly why we should not hurry with infusing money. If that money will go to finance people from these examples, what are the guarantees that those people will return the money? None.
Give me actual case where someone with a legitimate business plan and a history of good credit decisions is refused a loan. I've heard Caterpillar mentioned in the news, only to read about it from the company that they do not have credit issues. |
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09/30/2008 03:59:57 PM · #211 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Wow. I agree with Spazmo. |
Holy cow, so do I
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09/30/2008 04:00:26 PM · #212 |
here is a list of the companies that were on the endangered list at the beginning of the year. Looks like most are still on it. Especially if you look at thier stock quotes. Six Flags has a stock quote of .67 cents.
List |
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09/30/2008 04:22:52 PM · #213 |
cue the spooky music when you realize this broadcast in August 2006...
Peter Shiff predicts trouble while a talking head laughs at him
This is really worth a watch. Peter is mentor to Ron Paul who is advocating we let it all crash. Maybe there's something to it...
Message edited by author 2008-09-30 16:24:15. |
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09/30/2008 04:28:14 PM · #214 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
Give me actual case where someone with a legitimate business plan and a history of good credit decisions is refused a loan. I've heard Caterpillar mentioned in the news, only to read about it from the company that they do not have credit issues. |
Credit concerns at McDonalds called "overblown"
Don't listen to the sound bites, but read what's actually happening. Bank of America is not extending further credit to McDonalds to upgrade their latte machines. |
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09/30/2008 04:33:49 PM · #215 |
Whoops, nothing like eating crow on national TV. |
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09/30/2008 04:51:00 PM · #216 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by srdanz:
Give me actual case where someone with a legitimate business plan and a history of good credit decisions is refused a loan. I've heard Caterpillar mentioned in the news, only to read about it from the company that they do not have credit issues. |
Credit concerns at McDonalds called "overblown"
Don't listen to the sound bites, but read what's actually happening. Bank of America is not extending further credit to McDonalds to upgrade their latte machines. |
Clicked around on the same website, found this article: Historical perspective Thought it was interesting.
Message edited by author 2008-09-30 16:51:37.
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09/30/2008 06:21:34 PM · #217 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by srdanz:
Give me actual case where someone with a legitimate business plan and a history of good credit decisions is refused a loan. I've heard Caterpillar mentioned in the news, only to read about it from the company that they do not have credit issues. |
Credit concerns at McDonalds called "overblown"
Don't listen to the sound bites, but read what's actually happening. Bank of America is not extending further credit to McDonalds to upgrade their latte machines. |
That's because they sensibly see that investing capital in a business plan which requires selling $3 coffee in a period of looming austerity is a bad idea. Now, if McDonald's asked for some money to pay their workers' health coverage so they wouldn't have to come to work sick and spread contagion to the rest of us might earn their loan application another look, at least from me. |
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09/30/2008 07:45:32 PM · #218 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by srdanz:
Give me actual case where someone with a legitimate business plan and a history of good credit decisions is refused a loan. I've heard Caterpillar mentioned in the news, only to read about it from the company that they do not have credit issues. |
Credit concerns at McDonalds called "overblown"
Don't listen to the sound bites, but read what's actually happening. Bank of America is not extending further credit to McDonalds to upgrade their latte machines. |
That's because they sensibly see that investing capital in a business plan which requires selling $3 coffee in a period of looming austerity is a bad idea. Now, if McDonald's asked for some money to pay their workers' health coverage so they wouldn't have to come to work sick and spread contagion to the rest of us might earn their loan application another look, at least from me. |
I didn't mention anything about the sensibility. Someone asked for an actual example of credit tightening. I would think 18 months ago the benefit of the doubt would have gone to McDonalds that they know what they are doing. Now not apparently so.
Not saying that's a good or bad thing. I'm trying to formulate my opinion, but I'm actually leaning toward the "let it burn" theory. Time to rip the bandaid off fast instead of over six years. |
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09/30/2008 07:50:23 PM · #219 |
| Does anybody think this sounds familiar? I don't like the ending to the story. |
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10/01/2008 12:52:56 AM · #220 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Wow. I agree with Spazmo. |
Holy cow, so do I |
Dang, it is coming to an end.
I agree with Spazmo, as well. |
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10/01/2008 10:38:22 AM · #221 |
| ACORN's home page for those who may want to read about their policies and practices. |
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10/01/2008 12:01:21 PM · #222 |
I apologize for not reading the whole thread (I'm hungry and I need to do some housework) but can anyone succinctly tell me WHY having the government bail out the financial industry is a good thing? And particularly, why a Republican government, which according to rumors I've heard is against more government interference or something like that, is pushing for this?
I really don't follow politics. Can you tell? :-) |
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10/01/2008 12:46:27 PM · #223 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I apologize for not reading the whole thread (I'm hungry and I need to do some housework) but can anyone succinctly tell me WHY having the government bail out the financial industry is a good thing? And particularly, why a Republican government, which according to rumors I've heard is against more government interference or something like that, is pushing for this?
I really don't follow politics. Can you tell? :-) |
Because doing nothing is what the government did in the late 20's and I, for one, don't want to have my kids talk about growing up during the Great Depression II.
Part of the Republican party's support has to do with the above. Part of it has to do with their rich cronies, and themselves, being in trouble.
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10/01/2008 12:52:33 PM · #224 |
| I guess I don't see how a government that is already overextended can "afford" to bail out some rich cronies who've screwed up (apparently). Is there not an accountability issue? I do understand I'm horribly naive. |
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10/01/2008 01:02:46 PM · #225 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I guess I don't see how a government that is already overextended can "afford" to bail out some rich cronies who've screwed up (apparently). Is there not an accountability issue? I do understand I'm horribly naive. |
One thought is that the government (ie. us, the taxpayer) will recoup most or all of the money by eventually selling the assets we buy when prices have come back up. Only the government is big enough to hold that much for long enough to get the value back. NOW, the problem comes in that government often screws things up and the best-case scenario rarely surfaces with government programs (and that's coming from someone who is more authoritarian than libertarian). That's the risk in my view.
My thinking is if I am on the hook as a taxpayer and taking the risk, I want something tangible for it. Nobody with two bits of sense invests in risk without expecting some reward. Why should I be anything different? Give me, the taxpayer, a stake in the company. |
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