The financial bailout... the cause of the problem?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/29/2008 03:38:10 PM · #151

Originally posted by srdanz:

Anybody wants to go and buy some stock today?

I hear they'll be selling it at $1.19/ pound.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

09/29/2008 03:44:01 PM · #152

in a bit of woulda, shoulda, coulda, I had been seriously considering putting 30% of my portfolio into GLD. If we get any sort of rebound tomorrow, I may still do it. I think this may be the tip of the iceberg. And that doesn't mean we may not have a bit of recovery, but in the long term, I think it may be pay-the-piper-time for our wanton fiscal unrestraint.

antares1966

Nikon D7200

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

09/30/2008 03:40:57 AM · #153

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm really thinking about buying the next dip in gold or silver...just gotta hope things don't play out like the 30's, when the government decided to "buy" a gold position by confiscating it from the people.

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

09/30/2008 08:14:07 AM · #154

I heard on the news this morning that the average american has between 20-27 thousand in credit card debt. So i get to work and mention it to some co-workers. Two of the three sitting here said they have that kind of debt right now. One has $32,000 and the other has $28,000. I couldn't believe it!

They have good jobs too, averaging between 60-70K a yr which is the norm for the state of Maryland. I asked them how they got to that point and they both said that they bought things they didn't need. They also said sometimes they would pay cash for the material items and then when the regular day to day bills came in they wouldnt have the money so they would use their credit cards to pay bills like electric and for food.

Message edited by author 2008-09-30 08:15:04.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

09/30/2008 10:21:21 AM · #155

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by srdanz:
OK, bailout is rejected. House voted against it. Let's see how the market handles it.

Okay, so the Republicans aren't voting for it because Pelosi blamed the problem on Bush? First off, that was a pretty stuipd comment on her part (how surprising), but do they really think that it's a good reason to shoot it down?

Not just the Republicans. 95 Democrats voted against the bill including 5 of Nancy Pelosi's chairpersons - who were allowed to vote no due to tight races this year in their districts. Here we have a perfect example of the house with a majority, enough votes on their side alone to pass this measure - and they blame the republicans. More "poor me I'm a victim". The mantra of the liberal left.

McCain might be the one to finally pull off an accross the aisle deal. Of course, we could just call Obama. He'd chat with us on a conference call. What Pelosi did yesterday was unconientable(sp) for a sitting speaker. She should be fired.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/30/2008 10:29:52 AM · #156

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by srdanz:
OK, bailout is rejected. House voted against it. Let's see how the market handles it.

Okay, so the Republicans aren't voting for it because Pelosi blamed the problem on Bush? First off, that was a pretty stuipd comment on her part (how surprising), but do they really think that it's a good reason to shoot it down?

Not just the Republicans. 95 Democrats voted against the bill including 5 of Nancy Pelosi's chairpersons - who were allowed to vote no due to tight races this year in their districts. Here we have a perfect example of the house with a majority, enough votes on their side alone to pass this measure - and they blame the republicans. More "poor me I'm a victim". The mantra of the liberal left.

McCain might be the one to finally pull off an accross the aisle deal. Of course, we could just call Obama. He'd chat with us on a conference call. What Pelosi did yesterday was unconientable(sp) for a sitting speaker. She should be fired.

Just out of curiousity, would you feel better if the Democrats re-visited the document in question, put in exactly what they would like to see in the document and then, using their majority, pass it, regardless of the objections of the Republicans.

I do find it sad that some view this as an "us vs them" scenario, particularly when we consider the ramifications of the actions or inactions of the politicians.

Surely this is one scenario where political views can be temporarily set aside to the benefits of the Nation... or is that too much to ask.

Ray

09/30/2008 10:31:46 AM · #157

Originally posted by Chinabun:

Is a person who goes into 20-30K of credit card debt, responsible for their own fate? I say yes. I don't care if they lose their house. Be responsible. Be accountable for your actions. It is not someone elses fault when you mismanage your money. That's your own fault and you should be the one paying the price of that decision. I don't have the latest cell phone technology. I don't have a big flat screen TV. I don't have the latest laptop computer or video games or electronic gadgets. I can't afford them. If you can't afford them, then don't buy them. We spent the first 10 years of marriage with an old used portable TV. Our first couch was an innertube with a blanket over it. Our living room had no furniture for almost 9 years. Our first dining set was two orange crates with a folded cardboard box on top and 2 folding chairs from a garage sale. Live within your means. You are not owed luxury. Some get it and good for them. But live within your means.

citymars

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

09/30/2008 10:31:57 AM · #158

Originally posted by Flash:

... More "poor me I'm a victim". The mantra of the liberal left.

Flash, you can repeat this "talking point" over and over again (as you have), but that doesn't make it true.

09/30/2008 10:33:39 AM · #159

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Surely this is one scenario where political views can be temporarily set aside to the benefits of the Nation... or is that too much to ask.

Ray

Precisely why Speaker Pelosi was way out of bounds yesterday in chiding this as another Bush failure.

09/30/2008 10:36:28 AM · #160

Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by Flash:
... More "poor me I'm a victim". The mantra of the liberal left.

Flash, you can repeat this "talking point" over and over again (as you have), but that doesn't make it true.

So when Obama kept saying over and over and over during the debate that Mccain and Bush were the same - that it wasn't true as well? Or is only when a conservative repeats a phrase that it is relagated to a talking point and presumptively untrue. I've listed enough examples for readers to make up their own minds.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/30/2008 10:37:41 AM · #161

Okay, so I'm reading that the world markets are falling because we didn't pass the bill and ALL are urging US to come up with something to get the WORLD market back up. So now we (responsible bill payers and/or taxpayers) are not only expected to pay the way for these irresponsible US lenders/borrowers but now we need to pay the way for foreign investers?

Seriously?

09/30/2008 10:39:50 AM · #162

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by RayEthier:
Surely this is one scenario where political views can be temporarily set aside to the benefits of the Nation... or is that too much to ask.

Ray

Precisely why Speaker Pelosi was way out of bounds yesterday in chiding this as another Bush failure.

And of course, a verbal slight is good cause for the Republicans to screw the country by voting no, right?

WAH!!!!!!! The mean Democrat lady said a bad thing about me and my friends, now I'm going to pout.

If such a trivial matter is such a huge barrier to those Reps, how can they face a reporter or angry constituents?

The fact is that the Republican leadership in the house FAILED to deliver the votes of their members. Pelosi's speech is just an excuse for failure and a poor one at that.

Message edited by author 2008-09-30 10:41:52.

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

09/30/2008 10:53:10 AM · #163

I agree. I paid cash for all my stuff. That's why it took me so long to get my camera. I dont use credit cards.

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by Chinabun:
I heard on the news this morning that the average american has between 20-27 thousand in credit card debt. So i get to work and mention it to some co-workers. Two of the three sitting here said they have that kind of debt right now. One has $32,000 and the other has $28,000. I couldn't believe it!

They have good jobs too, averaging between 60-70K a yr which is the norm for the state of Maryland. I asked them how they got to that point and they both said that they bought things they didn't need. They also said sometimes they would pay cash for the material items and then when the regular day to day bills came in they wouldnt have the money so they would use their credit cards to pay bills like electric and for food.

Is a person who goes into 20-30K of credit card debt, responsible for their own fate? I say yes. I don't care if they lose their house. Be responsible. Be accountable for your actions. It is not someone elses fault when you mismanage your money. That's your own fault and you should be the one paying the price of that decision. I don't have the latest cell phone technology. I don't have a big flat screen TV. I don't have the latest laptop computer or video games or electronic gadgets. I can't afford them. If you can't afford them, then don't buy them. We spent the first 10 years of marriage with an old used portable TV. Our first couch was an innertube with a blanket over it. Our living room had no furniture for almost 9 years. Our first dining set was two orange crates with a folded cardboard box on top and 2 folding chairs from a garage sale. Live within your means. You are not owed luxury. Some get it and good for them. But live within your means.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/30/2008 10:55:17 AM · #164

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

The fact is that the Republican leadership in the house FAILED to deliver the votes of their members. Pelosi's speech is just an excuse for failure and a poor one at that.

As did the Democrats.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/30/2008 11:01:20 AM · #165

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

If such a trivial matter is such a huge barrier to those Reps, how can they face a reporter or angry constituents?

To be fair, if you'll read their comments, angry constituents are the very reason most of these voted no.

citymars

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

09/30/2008 11:04:36 AM · #166

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by Flash:
... More "poor me I'm a victim". The mantra of the liberal left.

Flash, you can repeat this "talking point" over and over again (as you have), but that doesn't make it true.

So when Obama kept saying over and over and over during the debate that Mccain and Bush were the same - that it wasn't true as well? Or is only when a conservative repeats a phrase that it is relagated to a talking point and presumptively untrue. I've listed enough examples for readers to make up their own minds.

I see -- so in your mind, it's okay to repeat distortions because others do? And by the way, your "examples" of liberals-as-victims are really just your spin on it.

09/30/2008 11:12:37 AM · #167

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

The fact is that the Republican leadership in the house FAILED to deliver the votes of their members. Pelosi's speech is just an excuse for failure and a poor one at that.

As did the Democrats.

The Democrats delivered a much greater number and percentage of their party's votes for the bailout than the Republicans. The Dem leadership delievered the votes they promised. The Republicans are the ones who came up short.

Only 1/3 of the Republicans in the House voted yes vs. 2/3 of the Democrats.

Keep in mind that this bill was what the President (a Republican) and the Secretary of the Treasury (also a Republican) wanted to pass and the bill on which John Boehner and the other Republican leaders had promised to persuade their memeber to vote yes.

09/30/2008 11:15:37 AM · #168

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

If such a trivial matter is such a huge barrier to those Reps, how can they face a reporter or angry constituents?

To be fair, if you'll read their comments, angry constituents are the very reason most of these voted no.

I'm sure that is the real reason, or part of it anyway, along with it just being absolute crap, they must have realized that blaming the Dems made them look even more stupid.

09/30/2008 11:26:13 AM · #169

Originally posted by citymars:

I see -- so in your mind, it's okay to repeat distortions because others do? And by the way, your "examples" of liberals-as-victims are really just your spin on it.

1. I do not see my citing the "victimization" claim of liberal democrats as a distortion. Spazmo99 has given enough posts with that as the mantra to be sufficient for my case.
2. My examples are merely the most memorable to me and hardly qualify as "all emcompassing". I have no intention of spending more time on finding more examples, when either you get my point or your don't. It would likely depend on what spin you placed on the original event. I do get pretty tired of reading and hearing about how disadvantaged someone or group is because they didn't have the "sense" (in my opinion) to come in out of the rain.
3. It's kind of like the stock market. No one is forced to put their money there. There is risk associated with it. Accept the risk or don't play that game. There are many sound secure places for risk adverse individuals to put their money. Gold, Bonds, CD's to name a few. Nearly 30 years ago mutual funds were a disaster. Yet many have plowed their entire lifes savings into 1 or 2 poorly choosen and managed funds. That is not my fault. Nor conservatives. Nor liberals. Nor Bush or Cheney or anyone else - except for the person who put their money there. People get greedy and thereby accept greater risk than what they should. But no one makes them be greedy and risk a higher return - or a higher loss. That is an individual choice.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/30/2008 11:28:02 AM · #170

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

The fact is that the Republican leadership in the house FAILED to deliver the votes of their members. Pelosi's speech is just an excuse for failure and a poor one at that.

As did the Democrats.

The Democrats delivered a much greater number and percentage of their party's votes for the bailout than the Republicans. The Dem leadership delievered the votes they promised. The Republicans are the ones who came up short.

Only 1/3 of the Republicans in the House voted yes vs. 2/3 of the Democrats.

Keep in mind that this bill was what the President (a Republican) and the Secretary of the Treasury (also a Republican) wanted to pass and the bill on which John Boehner and the other Republican leaders had promised to persuade their memeber to vote yes.

I guess I was imagining things when I heard Pelosi, Obama, Kerry and pretty much EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRATIC LEADER urging EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRATIC MEMBER OF THE HOUSE to vote the bill in.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/30/2008 11:31:29 AM · #171

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

[quote=Phil] [quote=Spazmo99]

I'm sure that is the real reason, or part of it anyway, along with it just being absolute crap, they must have realized that blaming the Dems made them look even more stupid.

Won't see me disagree with that at all. In fact, I posted it earlier.

You also won't see me disagree with the fact that Pelosi is someone who couldn't care less about America but couldn't care more than furthering her own agenda of hate.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/30/2008 11:37:16 AM · #172

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Now this is spin. Right off the talking points from last night.

Remember - it is the Democrats who hold the majority. The Democrats who do not need a single Republican vote. The Democrats who failed to pass a measure they brought for a vote and excused their own members (in some cases committee chairs) from voting yes on. And it is the Democrats that tried to play politics with this by first not even informing the Minority leader/whip of the so called "agreement" before going public that they were saving us from ourselves.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

09/30/2008 11:38:58 AM · #173

Listen. The blame game is completely entrenched in Washington and isn't the domain of either side. If flash wants to keep his blinders on so he only sees the dems blaming the reps, that's his blind spot. Frankly it makes me sick that in this instance the reps came up with a democratic scapegoat (Pelosi) merely minutes after the vote was done. I agree with Spaz above. What does it say about the "dozen" republicans who supposedly said, in effect, "f*ck you Pelosi, I'm changing my vote!"? That seems to be the workings of a third-grade playground, not the halls of congress.

The dems do the same thing (to be fair), but just not in this instance. The republicans looked very stupid. So either the dozen people didn't change their vote because of Pelosi but the leaders were playing a silly blame game, or they did change their vote because of Pelosi and likely don't deserve to be representatives for their constituency.

I think it's time for congress to "man up" and vote the bill based on whether they think it's going to work or not (and that's not clear) and not what it does for their re-election campaign.

Message edited by author 2008-09-30 11:40:32.