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09/26/2008 10:07:20 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by dahkota:
You know, I really should just ignore this drivel as it is really irritating me. But I just want to say that, in my majority black, democratic county, there are less foreclosures than in a close-by, majority white, upper middle class, republican county. Hmmm... makes that article kind of suspect with regard to truth. |
Hmmm...so blacks are democrats and upper middle class whites are republicans? No wonder politics are so polarizing - racial bias and prejudice still run beneath the surface. It makes me also wonder how much of a factor race will be when election night in November is over.
As for your point on foreclosures, you make a fine observation. The "creative mortgage lending" really turned into something it wasn't intended to be (although there were risky loan failures in the beginning also). In the end it did turn into a fast buck for many and it also allowed too many people to take on way more than they could afford (yes, including upper middle class "republicans"). Interesting read --> How the Subprime Mortgage Mess Began
Another hmmm...does it mean that all people that drive expensive cars are automatically "republicans" also? Could have sworn I saw some democrats with their elitist view of "yes, let's help the poor and downtrodden...just don't take my highend perks away" driving around in some very expensive vehicles. Oh, I know, they bought that vehicle from a minority owned dealership, so it's ok. |
Actually, I was talking about their elected governments when I referenced political party. It had nothing to do with race (though the racial breakdown of each county is verifiable). Additionally, with regard to what cars they drive, I have no clue - I was referring to the median household income and housing values of each county. I try my hardest not to make assumptions about people or groups of people; instead I use facts.
Your drivel about cars and elitist views is just more of the same. Find some facts to back it up or continue to be disregarded due to not having verifiable facts about anything. |
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09/26/2008 10:17:50 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by dahkota:
You know, I really should just ignore this drivel as it is really irritating me. But I just want to say that, in my majority black, democratic county, there are less foreclosures than in a close-by, majority white, upper middle class, republican county. Hmmm... makes that article kind of suspect with regard to truth. |
Hmmm...so blacks are democrats and upper middle class whites are republicans? No wonder politics are so polarizing - racial bias and prejudice still run beneath the surface. It makes me also wonder how much of a factor race will be when election night in November is over.
As for your point on foreclosures, you make a fine observation. The "creative mortgage lending" really turned into something it wasn't intended to be (although there were risky loan failures in the beginning also). In the end it did turn into a fast buck for many and it also allowed too many people to take on way more than they could afford (yes, including upper middle class "republicans"). Interesting read --> How the Subprime Mortgage Mess Began
Another hmmm...does it mean that all people that drive expensive cars are automatically "republicans" also? Could have sworn I saw some democrats with their elitist view of "yes, let's help the poor and downtrodden...just don't take my highend perks away" driving around in some very expensive vehicles. Oh, I know, they bought that vehicle from a minority owned dealership, so it's ok. |
Actually, I was talking about their elected governments when I referenced political party. It had nothing to do with race (though the racial breakdown of each county is verifiable). Additionally, with regard to what cars they drive, I have no clue - I was referring to the median household income and housing values of each county. I try my hardest not to make assumptions about people or groups of people; instead I use facts.
Your drivel about cars and elitist views is just more of the same. Find some facts to back it up or continue to be disregarded due to not having verifiable facts about anything. |
Never said they were facts, just observations and questions. BTW - Do you have "facts" on the foreclosure #'s and demographics of the counties you mention? |
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09/26/2008 10:24:58 AM · #78 |
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09/26/2008 10:32:27 AM · #79 |
Mostly, you will just shut the *&^% up.
That was funny. I tried reading one of her columns once. It meandered so badly that I literally had no idea what she was trying to say. |
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09/26/2008 11:07:46 AM · #80 |
I must post an apology to Glad2badad. This morning I was half asleep and angry and I responded to his post. However, I did not pay attention to who posted it and made the blind assumption that someone else had. My anger and ire, readily apparent in my email, was not a response exactly to what glad2badad posted, but a response to previously posted material by another person. Glad2badad just got caught in the crossfire and I did not intend for that to happen.
I have learned my lesson in that I should only reply to exactly what is quoted, not previously argued points not included. Also, wait until I wake up before spouting off.
Again, please accept my apology. |
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09/26/2008 11:09:25 AM · #81 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Mostly, you will just shut the *&^% up.
That was funny. I tried reading one of her columns once. It meandered so badly that I literally had no idea what she was trying to say. |
Yeah the second time he said it I lol. That's exactly what I would say to her, turn around and walk away. I don't know if it's because she's a woman and that I have very rarely been exposed to women like her or that she's just a mean person who thinks she is right in all she says. She repulses me.
Enough, time for a 10k bike ride to get my drugs; endorphins. ;] |
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09/26/2008 11:18:28 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
I must post an apology to Glad2badad. This morning I was half asleep and angry and I responded to his post. However, I did not pay attention to who posted it and made the blind assumption that someone else had. My anger and ire, readily apparent in my email, was not a response exactly to what glad2badad posted, but a response to previously posted material by another person. Glad2badad just got caught in the crossfire and I did not intend for that to happen.
I have learned my lesson in that I should only reply to exactly what is quoted, not previously argued points not included. Also, wait until I wake up before spouting off.
Again, please accept my apology. |
How do you like your coffee? :-D
It's all fine. There's a reason for the cliche - "Never talk politics or religion..." I should heed that cliche myself (I think - can't remember the rest of it - might not apply in this context). |
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09/26/2008 11:46:56 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
It makes me also wonder how much of a factor race will be when election night in November is over. |
I have read and heard this a fair amount lately and particularly wish to address a point that those making it may have forgotten. Obama would not have won the primaries had it not been for white support. He wouldn't have even been within striking distance of Hillary. In fact, many black leaders were promoting Hillary over Obama even into the summer. Obama's critical support base has consistently been the youth vote and particularly the white youth vote. Yes it is true that blacks in some states voted overwhelmingly for Obama, but that was AFTER he had already reached a groundswell of white support and was seriously challenging Hillary for the nomination. Blacks were criticizing him for not being "black" enough. I do not for one minute believe that whites who supported and voted for Obama during the primary season will suddenly not vote for him because he is black and that is BS in the highest degree. It was never about race for them. It was about HOPE. Regarding the voters who sat out the primary or voted republican, they were not in Obama's camp to begin with and to suggest that he might loose based on his race is just plain stupid. He may loose, and if he does - no doubt some will try to claim "victim" due to race - but its not true. Whites are who pushed Obama into the candidate position. It will not be whites that keep him from the presidency - if he fails to win it - regardless of the spin at the time and unfortunate riled masses who may claim otherwise - although based on percentages they may be the block that is critical as independents - but they weren't in his camp to begin with. The positions of the candidates and how their are percieved will ultimately determine who wins in November. No matter how much pot stirring is done.
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09/26/2008 12:25:09 PM · #84 |
| Flash, you've completely missed the point. The majority of white, upper middle class men tend to vote Republican, and more than 80% of blacks have voted for the democratic candidate in all but three elections since 1964. All you've done is point out he minority who don't. |
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09/26/2008 12:33:05 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Flash, you've completely missed the point. The majority of white, upper middle class men tend to vote Republican, and more than 80% of blacks have voted for the democratic candidate in all but three elections since 1964. All you've done is point out he minority who don't. |
You are going to have to define "upper middle class" here. Nearly everybody considers themselves upper middle class... :) |
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09/26/2008 12:39:08 PM · #86 |
I was asked about statistics with regard to foreclosure rates. Here are a few:
Prince Georges County - pop: 846,123 (63%AA, 27%WA), median income $55K, foreclosure rate 1/340
Fairfax County - pop: 1,077,000 (9% AA, 73%WA), median income $100,000, foreclosure rate 1/306
Loudon County - pop: 268,817 (7%AA, 82%WA), median income $108,000, foreclosure rate 1/227
Prince Georges County is considered the wealthiest majority african american county in the nation.
Fairfax and Loudon Counties alternate as the wealthiest counties in the nation.
In the area, the worst foreclosure rate is Prince William County:
pop: 383,644 (19%AA, 69%WA), median income $65,960, foreclosure rate 1/95
The foreclosure rate shows how many houses per foreclosure in the county. Since we are looking at uneven population rates, this seemed the fair way to do it. By Count, here are the numbers:
PGC 427
FFC 581
LC 294
PWC 1046
These numbers are from June. The numbers above (foreclosure rates) are from August 2008. |
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09/26/2008 01:01:14 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Flash, you've completely missed the point. The majority of white, upper middle class men tend to vote Republican, and more than 80% of blacks have voted for the democratic candidate in all but three elections since 1964. All you've done is point out he minority who don't. |
You are going to have to define "upper middle class" here. Nearly everybody considers themselves upper middle class... :) |
True, which is why I didn't give a specific percentage. The definitions of middle class vary, but the statistical preference remains with each version I found. |
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09/26/2008 01:13:49 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Flash, you've completely missed the point. The majority of white, upper middle class men tend to vote Republican, and more than 80% of blacks have voted for the democratic candidate in all but three elections since 1964. All you've done is point out he minority who don't. |
You are going to have to define "upper middle class" here. Nearly everybody considers themselves upper middle class... :) |
True, which is why I didn't give a specific percentage. The definitions of middle class vary, but the statistical preference remains with each version I found. |
The point I was making, was that none of the "upper middle class" whites that are republicans - regardless of definition - voted for Obama in the first place and likely won't in the national either. Therefore to claim that "whites" are the cause for Obama's defeat - if he is actually defeated - is a false argument. They were not in his voting block to begin with. The reason Obama is where he is today is in large part due to a sizeable "white" vote. That in and of itself should be the evidence that "white" america is not concerned with his ethnicity. Are there some? Sure! But they NEVER supported him. To blame whites for Obama's defeat if it happens, completely dismisses the white support that allowed him to claim the nomination in the first place. |
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09/26/2008 01:51:57 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Flash, you've completely missed the point. The majority of white, upper middle class men tend to vote Republican, and more than 80% of blacks have voted for the democratic candidate in all but three elections since 1964. All you've done is point out he minority who don't. |
You are going to have to define "upper middle class" here. Nearly everybody considers themselves upper middle class... :) |
True, which is why I didn't give a specific percentage. The definitions of middle class vary, but the statistical preference remains with each version I found. |
The point I was making, was that none of the "upper middle class" whites that are republicans - regardless of definition - voted for Obama in the first place and likely won't in the national either. Therefore to claim that "whites" are the cause for Obama's defeat - if he is actually defeated - is a false argument. They were not in his voting block to begin with. The reason Obama is where he is today is in large part due to a sizeable "white" vote. That in and of itself should be the evidence that "white" america is not concerned with his ethnicity. Are there some? Sure! But they NEVER supported him. To blame whites for Obama's defeat if it happens, completely dismisses the white support that allowed him to claim the nomination in the first place. |
Related, but only tangentially, is my opinion that the whites that don't vote for Obama just because he is black will be balanced out by the blacks that vote for him just because he "is." ("Is" in quotation marks because my understanding is that his mother was white?) |
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09/26/2008 01:55:24 PM · #90 |
Back to the topic at hand...
It's crap like this that makes me want to kick every officer and board member at those companies in the gonads with steel-toed boots. |
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09/26/2008 02:02:39 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Back to the topic at hand...
It's crap like this that makes me want to kick every officer and board member at those companies in the gonads with steel-toed boots. |
Spaz...this is one of those rare times when we agree on something. $20mil!!! That's crazy. Six to twelve months from now this guy will probably be at the helm making multi-millions somewhere else. |
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09/26/2008 02:07:23 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Back to the topic at hand...
It's crap like this that makes me want to kick every officer and board member at those companies in the gonads with steel-toed boots. |
Spaz...this is one of those rare times when we agree on something. $20mil!!! That's crazy. Six to twelve months from now this guy will probably be at the helm making multi-millions somewhere else. |
Unless he can find another failing company to lead. . . .
Then, he will make even more.
I'm no economist, admittedly, so will someone please explain to me, simply, why junk like this happens?
17 days? He would've only barely gotten a paycheck, yet, if he were a mere mortal like most of us. |
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09/26/2008 02:24:13 PM · #93 |
related but off topic, kind of...The reason I got out of the corporate world, or at least the high tech world, were the games I saw going on with regard to profit and executive bonuses. Two examples:
The CEO who was given an $11million bonus for making his number that quarter. Didn't matter that in the previous 12 quarters he lost money, nor that he laid off over a thousand people to get to that number.
The VP who, when he realized we weren't going to ship enough product to make our number, ordered, on the last day of the quarter, any computers, partly completed computers, and parts of computers out of the warehouse and factory and onto trucks that pulled out of the parking lot at 5PM. Since they were no longer in the warehouse and no longer in the factory, they were counted as sold and shipped. The company made its number for the quarter, barely, and he got his multi-million $ bonus. The share holders and wall street got screwed in the end though, (as did most of the employees) when the company declared bankruptcy a couple of quarters later. Even better though - some of those shells actually made it to customer sites. Imagine their surprise when they tried to plug them in... |
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09/26/2008 02:27:40 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Hmmm...so blacks are democrats and upper middle class whites are republicans? No wonder politics are so polarizing - racial bias and prejudice still run beneath the surface. It makes me also wonder how much of a factor race will be when election night in November is over. |
Originally posted by Flash:
The point I was making, was that none of the "upper middle class" whites that are republicans - regardless of definition - voted for Obama in the first place and likely won't in the national either. |
None of "upper middle class" whites that are republicans voted for Obama? Wow! I'd like to see a source on that claim!
Originally posted by Flash:
Therefore to claim that "whites" are the cause for Obama's defeat - if he is actually defeated - is a false argument. |
The statement you just made above is a direct contradiction of this one. |
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09/26/2008 02:40:22 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
related but off topic, kind of...The reason I got out of the corporate world, or at least the high tech world, were the games I saw going on with regard to profit and executive bonuses. Two examples:
The CEO who was given an $11million bonus for making his number that quarter. Didn't matter that in the previous 12 quarters he lost money, nor that he laid off over a thousand people to get to that number.
The VP who, when he realized we weren't going to ship enough product to make our number, ordered, on the last day of the quarter, any computers, partly completed computers, and parts of computers out of the warehouse and factory and onto trucks that pulled out of the parking lot at 5PM. Since they were no longer in the warehouse and no longer in the factory, they were counted as sold and shipped. The company made its number for the quarter, barely, and he got his multi-million $ bonus. The share holders and wall street got screwed in the end though, (as did most of the employees) when the company declared bankruptcy a couple of quarters later. Even better though - some of those shells actually made it to customer sites. Imagine their surprise when they tried to plug them in... |
How very sad indeed. We've become a country of greed - gotta have more, more, more! That big screen TV, the latest in sound systems, a spiffy new car. Too many live way beyond their means, and we're encouraged to spend more, buy more! The stuff we do buy doesn't last anymore. We had the same washer and dryer the entire time I was growing up. Now? Five years, maybe ten, but no longer. Then you have to buy more! New! Better! It's all about things, numbers. Quality? Doesn't really seem to be a player anymore. Sad. |
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09/26/2008 02:43:54 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Originally posted by dahkota:
related but off topic, kind of...The reason I got out of the corporate world, or at least the high tech world, were the games I saw going on with regard to profit and executive bonuses. Two examples:
The CEO who was given an $11million bonus for making his number that quarter. Didn't matter that in the previous 12 quarters he lost money, nor that he laid off over a thousand people to get to that number.
The VP who, when he realized we weren't going to ship enough product to make our number, ordered, on the last day of the quarter, any computers, partly completed computers, and parts of computers out of the warehouse and factory and onto trucks that pulled out of the parking lot at 5PM. Since they were no longer in the warehouse and no longer in the factory, they were counted as sold and shipped. The company made its number for the quarter, barely, and he got his multi-million $ bonus. The share holders and wall street got screwed in the end though, (as did most of the employees) when the company declared bankruptcy a couple of quarters later. Even better though - some of those shells actually made it to customer sites. Imagine their surprise when they tried to plug them in... |
How very sad indeed. We've become a country of greed - gotta have more, more, more! That big screen TV, the latest in sound systems, a spiffy new car. Too many live way beyond their means, and we're encouraged to spend more, buy more! The stuff we do buy doesn't last anymore. We had the same washer and dryer the entire time I was growing up. Now? Five years, maybe ten, but no longer. Then you have to buy more! New! Better! It's all about things, numbers. Quality? Doesn't really seem to be a player anymore. Sad. |
Though not a pleasant situation, it is a needed wake-up call. Now, all we can hope for is that noone hits the snooze button.
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09/26/2008 02:45:16 PM · #97 |
Canon EOS-40D
Canon EOS-10D
Canon PowerShot G3
Lenses: Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Canon
Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS
Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Canon EF 70-210mm f/4.0
Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
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09/26/2008 02:48:42 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Canon EOS-40D
Canon EOS-10D
Canon PowerShot G3
Lenses: Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Canon
Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS
Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Canon EF 70-210mm f/4.0
Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM |
Your point is? I don't see any evidence here that I'm anywhere close to being overextended.
You've obviously missed mine.
Message edited by author 2008-09-26 14:52:48.
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09/26/2008 02:53:16 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
...... We've become a country of greed - gotta have more, more, more! That big screen TV, the latest in sound systems, a spiffy new car. Too many live way beyond their means, and we're encouraged to spend more, buy more! The stuff we do buy doesn't last anymore. We had the same washer and dryer the entire time I was growing up. Now? Five years, maybe ten, but no longer. Then you have to buy more! New! Better! It's all about things, numbers. Quality? Doesn't really seem to be a player anymore. Sad. |
Though not a pleasant situation, it is a needed wake-up call. Now, all we can hope for is that noone hits the snooze button. [/quote] |
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09/26/2008 02:57:19 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
...... We've become a country of greed - gotta have more, more, more! That big screen TV, the latest in sound systems, a spiffy new car. Too many live way beyond their means, and we're encouraged to spend more, buy more! The stuff we do buy doesn't last anymore. We had the same washer and dryer the entire time I was growing up. Now? Five years, maybe ten, but no longer. Then you have to buy more! New! Better! It's all about things, numbers. Quality? Doesn't really seem to be a player anymore. Sad. |
Though not a pleasant situation, it is a needed wake-up call. Now, all we can hope for is that noone hits the snooze button. |
[/quote]
What's your point?
The wakeup call I'm pointing to is that consumers need to realize when they can't afford something and walk away. Don't sign up for a loan that you can't support if some tiny thing goes wrong somewhere else.
It's called manage your debt load, plan for the future, save for a rainy day, etc. etc. etc.
Yes, I'm a consumer. So what. That's not the point.
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