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09/17/2008 01:39:15 PM · #1 |
Here's the deal. I've just given my Rebel XT body to my sister so I'm out of a camera and I have ~$3k camera money burning a hole in my pocket. It's upgrade time, and I'd like your input on my options, or maybe things I haven't considered.
Having given my body away and only owning one serious lens, I'm open to switching systems (Nikon's Speedlites and AF system are the main temptations). But I'm totally unfamiliar with the Nikon system and my lens options therein.
The obvious question is - what do I shoot. Well, everything! I'm a general purpose amateur photographer. I'm leaning a bit toward a nice studio setup for portraits and the like, but I want it to be capable if I travel or want to shoot sports or my daughter's school play.
Here are the scenarios I've considered, and the + and - associated with them:
Nikon D700 kit
 + =
- 12.1 MP
+ 8 fps with grip
+ 51-point AF
- 24-120 f/3.5-5.6 VR lens (as opposed to current 24-105 f/4L IS)
+ Cheaper Speedlites, built-in commander
+ Available NOW
- Unfamiliar with Nikon system
- Friends use Canon system
+ $2840 (after I sell my 24-105)
Canon 5D Mk II Kit
 +
+ 21.1 MP, awesome IQ, movie feature is a small bonus
- 3.9 fps
- 9+6-point AF
+ Current 24-105 f/4 L IS
- Expensive Speedlights, $200 commander
- Available late November
+ Familiar with Canon system
+ Friends use Canon system
- ~$3000, keep 24-105
Canon 50D plus extras
 + + +???
- 15.1 MP APS-C sensor
+ 6.3 fps
- 9+6-point AF
+ Current 24-105 f/4 L IS
+ Ultra wide (~10-22 range)
- Expensive Speedlights, $200 commander
- Available mid October
+ Familiar with Canon system
+ Friends use Canon system
- ~$2300
+ ~$700 left over for other lenses, lights, goodies
Specific questions I have:
- What is the usability difference between AF systems? Will I notice if I don't shoot sports specifically? Kids can be pretty fast-paced...
- Should I gravitate toward the speedlites using TTL systems, or just get powerful, manual studio strobes? Obviously speedlites are more useful for a mobile setup.
- If I take the 50D route, what other goodies would you recommend?
Thanks for your time!
-Jeff |
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09/17/2008 01:45:28 PM · #2 |
My guess for you would be the 50D. FF has the most advantage with wide angle and with noise. If those benefits are worth the premium then I may be wrong. It really depends how you plan to use it.
The 5D mark II will be your best landscape/portrait camera.
The other two will be great walkaround, family, hobby cameras.
The 50D has the advantage that you already have one nice lens for it. |
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09/17/2008 01:58:31 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
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The 5D mark II will be your best landscape/portrait camera.
The other two will be great walkaround, family, hobby cameras.
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Why do you think the 5Dmk2 is a better landscape/portrait camera then the D700, they are both full frame? I am not interested in Nikon/Canon BS. Just curious, why you think so. Is it the more pixels or is it supposed to have more dynamic range?
Jeff I may stick with Canon if I were you. There just seems to be more used lenses available. I think everything else is pretty much equal, Any of the choices will be a huge upgrade. I would love a 5DII but I have speedlights and wireless cactus triggers for off camera flash work. Also I had more trouble missing shots with the commander then I do the triggers. Could have been me though, but it never worked right and was always blowing out the subject. |
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09/17/2008 02:04:00 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
My guess for you would be the 50D. FF has the most advantage with wide angle and with noise. |
Ah, but I find those factors very appealing... Maybe I've just got FF envy. =)
Originally posted by jdannels:
Also I had more trouble missing shots with the commander then I do the triggers. Could have been me though, but it never worked right and was always blowing out the subject. |
Thanks for that input. I had heard that commander-mode might not work that great. Plus I currently have manual Vivitar 285's, so if TTL isn't all it's cracked up to be, maybe the speedlite point is moot. |
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09/17/2008 02:10:57 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by smurfguy:
Originally posted by jdannels:
Also I had more trouble missing shots with the commander then I do the triggers. Could have been me though, but it never worked right and was always blowing out the subject. |
Thanks for that input. I had heard that commander-mode might not work that great. Plus I currently have manual Vivitar 285's, so if TTL isn't all it's cracked up to be, maybe the speedlite point is moot. |
I think it can be, I was only using a single sb600 so maybe with another flash would have made a difference. Hard to say. I know for some shoots I shot in a dark field and the sensor was facing the the flash and still was hit and miss. I am sure others say it works great, maybe my sb600 is not so great. :P |
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09/17/2008 02:55:58 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by jdannels:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
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The 5D mark II will be your best landscape/portrait camera.
The other two will be great walkaround, family, hobby cameras.
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Why do you think the 5Dmk2 is a better landscape/portrait camera then the D700, they are both full frame? I am not interested in Nikon/Canon BS. Just curious, why you think so. Is it the more pixels or is it supposed to have more dynamic range? |
The honest answer is I don't know the Nikon lineup and can't keep the new cameras apart. I didn't realize the D700 was FF (quibble: isn't it 1.1x?). Given that, it makes it more desirable for landscape. Noise may or may not be similar between the two. We'll have to see how the new camera actually delivers on noise. The nearly doubling of pixels may help or hinder. It does make it easier to blow up those landscapes to 30x40, but it may provide a noise headwind the processor may not be able to handle.
Message edited by author 2008-09-17 14:57:11. |
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09/17/2008 03:09:28 PM · #7 |
Is there consistency across the Canon line as to controls, menus, etc...
Seems to me that the learning curve would be much shorter staying with a brand you are familiar with. Just a thought. Good luck in whatever choice you make...and have FUN putting out that fire in your pocket! :-D
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09/17/2008 03:15:54 PM · #8 |
Buy a new or used 30D.
Blow your money on lenses.
Start saving for the 5D MarkIII.
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09/17/2008 03:18:44 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Is there consistency across the Canon line as to controls, menus, etc... |
To a degree. My XT didn't have a rear wheel, so it'd be a least a bit of a step even within Canon. Still, being young and funky, I would consider learning about a new toy camera fun.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Good luck in whatever choice you make...and have FUN putting out that fire in your pocket! :-D |
Thanks, I'm looking forward to it! =D |
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09/17/2008 04:36:25 PM · #10 |
You wanna know what I would do? I'd toss all of those choices out, watch the market for the flood of used, and new 5DMKI price to plummet, purchase one and then buy some killer glass for it. I recently picked up a second hand 5D to compliment my 1DMKIII. I can honestly say the only drawback is the 3FPS and the small diamond of AF points. The camera is really amazing, and very soon the price on it used and new will be down to the point it would be silly not to pick one up. I have a few weddings coming up and ditched the 40D in favor of the 5D. I havent regretted it one bit.
With 3K in my pocket I'd pick up the 5D and a couple of affordable L lens and enjoy the heck out of myself.
17-40 F4 for landscapes and the 70-200 F2.8 Non IS model, or 70-200F4IS and the 5D for me please. And I'm pretty sure you said you already had a 24-105L. I'd say you are set. Its not always about the latest and greatest. Sometimes its quality over quantity.
Matt
Message edited by author 2008-09-17 16:37:21.
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09/17/2008 04:37:23 PM · #11 |
50D vs 40D vs 5D vs 5D2...
5D is old, slow and perhaps cheap, relatively speaking. Not a bad camera and for what you're talking about it may be a very good option.
40D rocks. An awesome body, and again, gonna be clearanced soon. Not sure the current price, but it was recently $940. I got a backup at that give away price. Better IQ and DR than the old 5D.
50D - a few bells and whistles (micro af - for gearheads, it's not something you'll ever use IMO). 15mp? WTF for? No really? Landscapes -maybe. Otherwise it's just gonna slow your computer down and fill up your HD faster. You do get better high ISO, better than the old 5D.
5D2 - you get bragging rights, stay the most current, but you'll pay for those priveleges. You may have to wait or at least hunt a bit to find one.
OK, onto the lenses and such. Generally speaking, canon lenses are less costly than nikon, and easier to find used (or sell if/when you upgrade). Your friends shoot canon. Canon's flash is fine. More costly? Maybe, but the 580EX2 was available for $329 for a while last year (i shoulda bought a backup then!)
Either wireless TTL system works fine indoors if they point at/see eachother and they both suffer outdoors in the sun. You'd be suprised what you can do with manual flashes as the second and third units. You'll get used to whatever system you have and then develop your style based on what works for you.
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09/17/2008 05:00:06 PM · #12 |
I would go with the last package you mentioned. I have a 20D right now, and while it hasn't let me down, I cannot wait to pick up the 50D when it finally ships: better low-light preformance.sensor, DIGIC IV, better LCD screen, the list goes on and on.
I also have the 10-22. It is extremely useful, and I am often surprised by its sharpness, If only it was f/2.8 ;).
For me, the deal closer would be extra $700. You could get the 70-200 f/4L (~$600 which I hear is outstanding), or use it go a long way towards the 70-200 f/4L IS or the 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS. I have the f/4L IS and it is amazing, you can get handheld shots at 1/15s! The sharpness is also unlike anything I have seen.
If I understand you correctly, you have the 24-105, which means you would have 10-200mm covered. Which on the 50D is 16-320mm. I don't really think you could go wrong, unless you absolutely need 20+ MP or FF. Personally, I tend to like longer focal length, so the 1.6x CF doesn't bother me. |
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09/17/2008 05:54:41 PM · #13 |
I've thought about used. I've been watching FM, and used 5D's have been going in the range of $1700-$1900, depending on condition. Unfortunately, I imagine that used 5D prices won't really be affected until the 5DII hits the market.
Indeed, the 50D has a very nice feature set. A huge improvement over my XT. With cash to spare to snag a couple lenses, maybe some light. Even a discounted 40D would be a step up.
But on the other hand, I'm admittedly an IQ snob, pixel peeper, and tech geek. I tell myself I could additionally sell my camcorder (which rides in my camera bag) if I bought the 5dMKII. There's another couple hundred bucks right there.
Last time I went with glass over body. This time I'm tempted to try the other approach.
Hmmm... |
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09/17/2008 06:08:42 PM · #14 |
I will echo something I've said many times before. I hate spending money on a body. I love spending money on glass. The first will become obsolete, the second will likely last the lifetime of your hobby.
That being said, sometimes you have to spend money on a body. |
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09/17/2008 06:14:11 PM · #15 |
That's exactly what you said last time. =D
I did find a couple well-priced 5D's on locally that I'm looking into... It appears some folks are already selling off in preparation for the Mark II. As much of a snob as I am, I do love to be on the frugal end of the "latest and greatest" craze. |
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09/17/2008 06:18:53 PM · #16 |
| I'm likely to sell mine in about a month. It was only purchased in about March of this year and has 1-2k actuations (I never learned how to check that). Keep a lookout. :) |
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09/17/2008 06:29:07 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm likely to sell mine in about a month. It was only purchased in about March of this year and has 1-2k actuations (I never learned how to check that). Keep a lookout. :) |
1-2K?? Do you ever take it out to play? Or are you the one shot wonder? :P
smurfguy-- Craigslist SF has a few 5D's for sale now. $1500-2000 depending on the condition and accessories(BG, etc.) |
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09/17/2008 06:35:17 PM · #18 |
With the Nikon D700, it is exceptional at low light. i.e In a lot of cases you won't even need a flash. A lot of sport and wedding photographers are picking it up. (That or the D3). Heck, I've heard of people using their iPhone as a key light!
Switching to the Nikon system? Maybe a negative as its different but it could also considered to be a positive. (Think "new toy!" The whole experience will feel brand new!).
I'd actually see if you can rent before you make the committment. If that's an option that is. Who wants to be stuck with a camera that just doesn't feel right? Regardless of all the bells and whistles....
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09/17/2008 06:45:10 PM · #19 |
I won't sell mine if I upgrade. I'll keep it as a back-up. It's fairly low-mileaged(less than 8000 clicks) for being 2 years old.
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09/17/2008 06:51:46 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm likely to sell mine in about a month. It was only purchased in about March of this year and has 1-2k actuations (I never learned how to check that). Keep a lookout. :) |
1-2K?? Do you ever take it out to play? Or are you the one shot wonder? :P
smurfguy-- Craigslist SF has a few 5D's for sale now. $1500-2000 depending on the condition and accessories(BG, etc.) |
The move and stress associated really cut into my shooting this year. I could actually be wrong and it may be 3-5k, but the point is it's low. :) |
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09/17/2008 06:51:53 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm likely to sell mine in about a month. It was only purchased in about March of this year and has 1-2k actuations (I never learned how to check that). Keep a lookout. :) |
It's worth $1500 now ($1400 for a pal), less later. Come on, Doc, don't you have a backup to tide you over! ;)
Originally posted by mpeters:
smurfguy-- Craigslist SF has a few 5D's for sale now. $1500-2000 depending on the condition and accessories(BG, etc.) |
Yeah, I've got emails out to a few CL ads in the $1500 range... It's trust that's the issue with long-distance CL deals.
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09/17/2008 07:26:38 PM · #22 |
| Your hesitation on the CL deals makes sense. I've had good luck with them, all local-face to face transactions. But I'm sure the scammers are around. :( Happy hunting! |
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09/17/2008 08:03:41 PM · #23 |
I'm leaning more and more toward a used 5D or a new 5d Mk II. The price differential is around $1000 (camcorder sale factored in).
For the 5D2, I'd have (presumably) the best IQ and noise performance out there, the latest and greatest, and the ego to go with it. =P Oh, and a handy HD video recorder, but a two month wait.
For the 5D, I could have any of the following to boot:
- 70-200 f/2.8L or f/4L IS
I've never been particularly excited about this focal range. Seems like an inadequate telephoto, esp on FF, though too long for general purpose. With my 24-105, might as well get a 200 2.8 prime for $400 less. But 200mm - what's the point?
- A decent long prime, like 300 f/4 IS, or 400 f/5.6
But the long range is diminished on a FF body. Besides, I have no actual need for a long lens. =P
- 17-40 and a 50 f/1.4
Ah, now here's a tempting combo, by my reckoning. I've felt constrained by 24 x 1.6 as my widest.
- A nice set of 2-3 speedlights or a couple AlienBees.
Also tempting, but I could make do with just new triggers for my 285's.
BTW, one of the SFBay CL guys just told me that he's not interested in shipping. What's up with that? |
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09/17/2008 08:13:29 PM · #24 |
get good glass and cheap bodies. both my bodies are hand me downs, and i bought all my glass new.
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09/17/2008 08:13:54 PM · #25 |
I felt constrained with 24mm on a 1.6x too. Instead of getting a new lens, I went with the FF sensor and now it's like a 17mm. My next lens, however, is likely to be the 17-40, although I have a 16-35mm at work I can borrow whenever so maybe I'll hold off.
On the long end I faced the exact issue you are talking about. I wound up going with a 300mm prime. I like it, although it is probably the least used lens between it and my 24-105, 180 macro. Even 300mm on a FF isn't enough for serious wildlife. I'm thinking about a 1.4x teleconverter which may make it interesting. |
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