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09/15/2008 10:43:20 AM · #476 |
Originally posted by Flash:
One of the first things I look for in a manager is one who will make a decision. I can teach them to make good ones over bad ones, but some people are simply afraid to make them in the first place. Those are the managers I can't afford. Too many present votes indicates an unwillingenss to be held accountable. |
Sometimes both choices are bad (or equally OK), in which case you could be vilified for voting either way and abstention is the wisest decision. In any case, "present" should be preferable to "absent." |
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09/15/2008 10:45:42 AM · #477 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
why would I believe him on his proposed "Tax cut for 95% of americans" when 40% don't even pay Federal tax. If he calculates income redistribution as a tax cut, then I doubt I'll like his definitions any better when the most liberal voter in the Senate becomes Persident. |
If 95% of Americans pay less (or receive help if they didn't make enough to pay taxes), then his statement is accurate, though I'm sure the wealthy appreciate your heartfelt concern for their plight. |
If he is lying about the 95%, then why would I believe him on anything else he says.
Regarding the wealthy, why do those on the left feel entitled to their money? It's not yours. Is stealing now part of the "progressive" agenda? |
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09/15/2008 10:49:09 AM · #478 |
What time period are we discussing ⦠?2005-2008? ⦠I guess you don't want McCain ???
Originally posted by Flash:
Seems like he had enough judgement and foresight to vote "present" so that he would not have to defend actually standing for something. Regarding foresight - isn't that like have an extra sense? One that allows you to predict the future? One that gives you an extra edge?
One of the first things I look for in a manager is one who will make a decision. I can teach them to make good ones over bad ones, but some people are simply afraid to make them in the first place. Those are the managers I can't afford. Too many present votes indicates an unwillingenss to be held accountable. That is not the kind of manager I want running my country - I mean company. |
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 10:50:13. |
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09/15/2008 11:02:03 AM · #479 |
Actually the numbers are wrong. From the commenst section the authro admitted as such.
"Greg Molyneux says:
September 9th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
B. Ginsberg is right. Andrew, your numbers in the post do not match the numbers represented in your spreadsheet. I went ahead and used the summation function for each column and came up with the following results:
Obama 2005-2008
No Vote: 228
Yay: 253
Nay: 87
McCain 2005-2008
No Vote: 300
Yay: 136
Nay: 132
Andrew Blanco says:
September 9th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Wow. My apologies. I officially need to learn Excel or not post any more analysis of numbers.
Thanks."
What the numbers do show is that McCain actually voted for and against bills about 50/50 meaning to me he actually had a position. Obama just voted Y to nearly everything, meaning I can't trust him to be a good steward of my money.
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 11:06:22. |
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09/15/2008 11:16:57 AM · #480 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Actually the numbers are wrong. From the commenst section the authro admitted as such.
"Greg Molyneux says:
September 9th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
B. Ginsberg is right. Andrew, your numbers in the post do not match the numbers represented in your spreadsheet. I went ahead and used the summation function for each column and came up with the following results:
Obama 2005-2008
No Vote: 228
Yay: 253
Nay: 87
McCain 2005-2008
No Vote: 300
Yay: 136
Nay: 132
Andrew Blanco says:
September 9th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Wow. My apologies. I officially need to learn Excel or not post any more analysis of numbers.
Thanks."
What the numbers do show is that McCain actually voted for and against bills about 50/50 meaning to me he actually had a position. Obama just voted Y to nearly everything, meaning I can't trust him to be a good steward of my money. |
No, it just means that Obama agreed with more of the legislation that was voted on than McCain. It's not indicative of having a position or not. Not surprising really when you consider who's in control of the Senate.
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09/15/2008 11:24:35 AM · #481 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
No, it just means that Obama agreed with more of the legislation that was voted on than McCain. It's not indicative of having a position or not. Not surprising really when you consider who's in control of the Senate. |
So, if the Democrats are in control of the Senate and the Democrats are the ones setting the agenda for which bills come for a vote, then McCains 50/50 Y/N vote tally since 2005 indicates a fairly consistent support for working with the other party. Completely opposite of the slant presented by he Obama campaign claiming that McCain is 4 more years of Bush. Here's another lie from Obama. |
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09/15/2008 11:26:13 AM · #482 |
Look -  Flash is making the point that Obama can't make a decision ⦠so has more non-votes to prove it. But if his competition is McCain, than there is really no argument there.
Most recent
109th
Energy Votes? |
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09/15/2008 11:29:36 AM · #483 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
No, it just means that Obama agreed with more of the legislation that was voted on than McCain. It's not indicative of having a position or not. Not surprising really when you consider who's in control of the Senate. |
So, if the Democrats are in control of the Senate and the Democrats are the ones setting the agenda for which bills come for a vote, then McCains 50/50 Y/N vote tally since 2005 indicates a fairly consistent support for working with the other party. Completely opposite of the slant presented by he Obama campaign claiming that McCain is 4 more years of Bush. Here's another lie from Obama. |
You're having logic problems. Those McCain votes agreed with the Bush position over 90% of the time. |
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09/15/2008 11:30:56 AM · #484 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
If Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate - which he does - then every one else is "more conservative". |
Either he has no experience or he has a liberal voting record. You don't get it both ways. So pick one. |
Who said he has no experience? I've heard and read where he has no "executive" experience. He has a voting record. A sparse one. A liberal one. But a record. Most of which contains "present" votes. |
Either he has a sparse record with lots of "present" votes, or he has a liberal voting record. You don't get it both ways. So pick one. |
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09/15/2008 11:41:16 AM · #485 |
95% in 2007
100% in 2008
So he's primed to BE Bush next year ⦠unless of course, he's a Senator still ... |
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09/15/2008 11:47:22 AM · #486 |
| And from this link provided from your link, Obama votes the party line (96-97%). Not the kind of candidate I'm looking for. Again Obama's claim of McCain being the one to watch out for as the one who can't think for himself and just blindly follows the "Bush Doctrine" (which Karl Rove didn't even know the answer to - as there have been 4 coined by the media), is again another lie. Obama is the one that follows lockstep with his party. |
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09/15/2008 11:55:48 AM · #487 |
| So I assume you voted for someone else in the primary? |
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09/15/2008 12:06:58 PM · #488 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
If Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate - which he does - then every one else is "more conservative". |
Either he has no experience or he has a liberal voting record. You don't get it both ways. So pick one. |
Who said he has no experience? I've heard and read where he has no "executive" experience. He has a voting record. A sparse one. A liberal one. But a record. Most of which contains "present" votes. |
Either he has a sparse record with lots of "present" votes, or he has a liberal voting record. You don't get it both ways. So pick one. |
Actually you can have a sparse voting record, which Obama does since he has only been in the Senate for 3 1/2 years and has missed many votes due to campaigning(so has McCain), and have that sparse record be the most liberal voting record in the Senate during that period. So in fact you can have it both ways, that's simple logic.
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 12:29:21. |
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09/15/2008 12:11:03 PM · #489 |
Originally posted by metatate:
So I assume you voted for someone else in the primary? |
I did not vote for Obama - if that is your question?
Care to hazard a guess on where Obama and McCain might stand on this news item from the UK? |
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09/15/2008 12:14:54 PM · #490 |
I was wondering which kind you were looking for? Apparently someone that votes against his/her party â¦Â so I was curious who you thought was a good example of that and received your vote in the primary election ⦠that's all.
Republican or Democrat, naturally. Originally posted by Flash:
⦠Not the kind of candidate I'm looking for. ⦠|
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 12:15:05. |
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09/15/2008 12:25:32 PM · #491 |
Somehow I don't know if should be on the top list off issues I want to ask my politicians in the United States. Do you think it should be?
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09/15/2008 12:27:46 PM · #492 |
Originally posted by metatate:
I was wondering which kind you were looking for? Apparently someone that votes against his/her party â¦Â so I was curious who you thought was a good example of that and received your vote in the primary election ⦠that's all.
Republican or Democrat, naturally. Originally posted by Flash:
⦠Not the kind of candidate I'm looking for. ⦠|
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I actually encouraged my nephew (1st year in college) to look hard at Obama. He seemed to capture the imagination of young voters and getting them to participate in the process was paramount in my opinion. When I was 18, I was about as far left a socialist as one might encounter. Even socialized with some SDS folks (Students for Democratic Society - for those of you too young to remember). I think it goes with the inexperience and gulibility of youth (late 60's). I certainly do not think that way now - nor have I for many decades.
My issues for this election are not particularly attributed to a candidate, but more to the parties and what they historically support. My views on individual rights vs collective rights pretty much forces me into the Republican camp - regardless of who is headlining the ticket. I suspect many here - vote democratic for similar personal reasons. Whether it is abortion, gun control or income redistribution. We all have our strong issues.
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 12:49:38. |
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09/15/2008 12:32:18 PM · #493 |
Hopefully they both understand that another country's legal system is none of our business. Despite Fox' sensationalism, all this does is provide Muslims a way to resolve civil disputes (like marriages) within a 'jury' of their peers. Similar civil authority is already offered to Orthodox Jews. |
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09/15/2008 12:36:24 PM · #494 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Hopefully they both understand that another country's legal system is none of our business. Despite Fox' sensationalism, all this does is provide Muslims a way to resolve civil disputes (like marriages) within a 'jury' of their peers. Similar civil authority is already offered to Orthodox Jews. |
So do you support a similar adoption here? We certainly qualify as having many races and ethnicities within our borders. Shouldn't we also accomodate them? I think that would be Obama's position. Accomodate, accomodate, accomodate. |
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09/15/2008 12:36:38 PM · #495 |
But it's not like either candidate has experience in law anyway ⦠oh wait â¦
Originally posted by scalvert:
Hopefully they both understand that another country's legal system is none of our business. Despite Fox' sensationalism, all this does is provide Muslims a way to resolve civil disputes (like marriages) within a 'jury' of their peers. Similar civil authority is already offered to Orthodox Jews. |
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09/15/2008 12:42:21 PM · #496 |
to metatate -
fwiw, for me - arguing the opponents position is the best way to become familiar with the true stances of any candidate. I think that if more liberals tried to argue from the position of a conservative, then they would learn alot more about conservatives than if they are simply entrenched within their own ideology. (and vis versa). |
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09/15/2008 12:45:08 PM · #497 |
Originally posted by Flash:
So do you support a similar adoption here? |
Arbitration, in the context of United States law, is a legal alternative to litigation whereby the parties to a dispute agree to submit their respective positions (through agreement or hearing) to a neutral third party for resolution. Although the New York and federal arbitration laws were based on the English arbitration law of 1898, they omitted the English provision permitting for de novo review of questions of law. Thus, American courts can overturn arbitral rulings only for extremely gross procedural errors that violate due process, but cannot reverse most substantive errors.
Sounds like the British version might be an improvement. ;-) |
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09/15/2008 12:50:25 PM · #498 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Hopefully they both understand that another country's legal system is none of our business. Despite Fox' sensationalism, all this does is provide Muslims a way to resolve civil disputes (like marriages) within a 'jury' of their peers. Similar civil authority is already offered to Orthodox Jews. |
A few months ago Louis had a very good post regarding sharia law in Canada. It is peripheral but I would interested in the opinions of each candidate regarding this issue.
eta: found it in "The importance of punishment" thread, last page.
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 12:54:42. |
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09/15/2008 01:23:27 PM · #499 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Either he has a sparse record with lots of "present" votes, or he has a liberal voting record. You don't get it both ways. So pick one. |
Actually you can have a sparse voting record, which Obama does since he has only been in the Senate for 3 1/2 years and has missed many votes due to campaigning(so has McCain), and have that sparse record be the most liberal voting record in the Senate during that period. So in fact you can have it both ways, that's simple logic. |
How can you claim a record to be "most liberal" if it's sparse? By percentage of votes? That's a very superficial method. A small number of votes cannot demonstrate such a strong trend. That's simple statistics. You can't have it both ways. Pick one. |
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09/15/2008 01:48:29 PM · #500 |
Being a registered independent, I try not to entrench myself in an ideology.
I care a great deal for the environment and for the education of the children (and adults) of this country. These topics traditionally are strong points for the Dems ⦠so I guess I lean that way.
Personally, I think saying that the free market will solve all the problems is simply not the case. So the "anti-social program" rhetoric doesn't go far with me. Especially considering that Republicans seem to pick and choose where government money goes usually with a scare-tactic.
I believe the current Republican approach is so far out of touch with what is important that it's hard to grasp on to anything really. Itâs part of the reason a âcentristâ Republican won the R primaries, isnât it?
Originally posted by Flash:
fwiw, for me - arguing the opponents position is the best way to become familiar with the true stances of any candidate. I think that if more liberals tried to argue from the position of a conservative, then they would learn alot more about conservatives than if they are simply entrenched within their own ideology. (and vis versa). |
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