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09/15/2008 08:54:51 AM · #451 |
Originally posted by Flash:
If we look at the Senate records of both Presidential Candidates (just since 2005 to give Obama a fair chance) the record shows McCain MUCH more willing to reach accross party lines to do the work of the American people while Obama will work on postage stamp issues.
If we are real - there is no evidence that Obama will take on his own party and stand his ground. He does have a good delivery though. Somewhere it is written about "wolves in sheeps clothing". Judge them by their actions - not their words. |
Since you seem to be suggesting that Obama has done NOTHING, his actions would pose no threat to your society... can you say the same for your champion.
Ray |
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09/15/2008 09:13:28 AM · #452 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Flash:
If we look at the Senate records of both Presidential Candidates (just since 2005 to give Obama a fair chance) the record shows McCain MUCH more willing to reach accross party lines to do the work of the American people while Obama will work on postage stamp issues.
If we are real - there is no evidence that Obama will take on his own party and stand his ground. He does have a good delivery though. Somewhere it is written about "wolves in sheeps clothing". Judge them by their actions - not their words. |
Since you seem to be suggesting that Obama has done NOTHING, his actions would pose no threat to your society... can you say the same for your champion.
Ray |
I did not say that "Obama has done NOTHING". I did point out some factual evidence about voting records and bills sponsored and who actually is getting bi-partisan support. For Obama to claim that he is the agent of change when he has voted 97% with his own party (while McCain has proven time and again that he will work accross party lines - with 55% bipartisan cosponsorship) is untrue at best. Unless change is defined as moving America towards the most liberal philosophied and voting member of the Senate. With Biden as #3.
Maybe this is what Americans want. If they elect Obama, it is certainly what they will get. |
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09/15/2008 09:19:55 AM · #453 |
One day maybe you will see the light.
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
"I can see Russia from my house!" |
So what? On a clear night, I can see the moon :O)
Ray |
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09/15/2008 09:27:51 AM · #454 |
Originally posted by Flash:
For Obama to claim that he is the agent of change when he has voted 97% with his own party... is untrue at best. |
Except that voting with his party WOULD be a change from the policies of at least 7 of the past 8 years. |
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09/15/2008 09:31:19 AM · #455 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
For Obama to claim that he is the agent of change when he has voted 97% with his own party... is untrue at best. |
Except that voting with his party WOULD be a change from the policies of at least 7 of the past 8 years. |
I think that is what I said.
"Unless change is defined as moving America towards the most liberal philosophied and voting member of the Senate. "
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09/15/2008 09:37:31 AM · #456 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I think that is what I said.
"Unless change is defined as moving America towards the most liberal philosophied and voting member of the Senate. " |
Think harder. Voting with the minority party is not necessarily moving America towards the views of one particular Senator. Speaking of voting records, THIS is pretty funny/sad– "John McCain’s campaign is running a Spanish language ad in battleground states that blames Barack Obama and Senate Democrats for the failure of attempts to overhaul the nation’s immigration laws — even though the Republican nominee and his Democratic counterpart cast identical votes in the key Senate showdowns on that issue last year."
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 09:42:56. |
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09/15/2008 09:43:40 AM · #457 |
Originally posted by Flash:
If we look at the Senate records of both Presidential Candidates (just since 2005 to give Obama a fair chance) the record shows McCain MUCH more willing to reach accross party lines to do the work of the American people while Obama will work on postage stamp issues.
If we are real - there is no evidence that Obama will take on his own party and stand his ground. He does have a good delivery though. Somewhere it is written about "wolves in sheeps clothing". Judge them by their actions - not their words.
edit ti add: This came from the comments section of my link. I have no idea if it is true - however it will cause me to [i][i]investigate it;[/i][/i]
"Before you dismiss the fact that Sarah Palin is Commander
of the Alaska National Guard consider this. Alaska is the
first line of defense in our missile interceptor defense system. The 49th
Missile Defense Battalion of the Alaska National Guard is the unit that
protects the entire nation from ballistic missile attacks. It's on
permanent active duty, unlike other Guard units. As governor of Alaska ,
Palin is briefed on highly classified military issues, homeland security,
and counterterrorism. Her exposure to classified material may rival even
Biden's and certainly by far exceeds Obama's. She's also the commander in
chief of the Alaska State Defense Force (ASDF), a federally recognized
militia incorporated into Homeland Security's counterterrorism plans.
Palin is privy to military and intelligence secrets that are vital to the
entire country's defense. Given Alaska 's proximity to Russia , she may
have security clearances we don't even know about. According to the
Washington Post, she first met with McCain in February, but nobody ever
found out. " |
Other than visiting the Alaska NG troops for show and tell, I don't think she's ever actually exercised her role as CIC. |
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09/15/2008 09:46:09 AM · #458 |
Obama's "Change" for America is to move from a more centrist conservative philosophy to the far left. That is the "Change" voters are considering. McCain has demonstrated for years, his centrist positions. It is one reason the right wing of his party has such consternation over his selection. McCain is not endeared to conservatives - regardless how much Obama wants to portray him as such. Many conservatives refused to even vote for him as his record of bipartisan actions was too liberal for them. McCain IS far more conservative than Obama - but even Ted Kennedy and Biden and Kerry are more conservative than Obama. Liberman and Hillary are like right wingers compared to Obama. So a vote for Obama is a vote for the leftist of center any candidate in modern history. That's a scary "Change" to me.
edite to add in keeping with the thread topic of taxes - maybe what Obama means when he speaks of "Change" is that after he is done taxing me, all I'll have left is change.
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 09:51:05. |
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09/15/2008 09:50:36 AM · #459 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Obama's "Change" for America is to move from a more centrist conservative philosophy to the far left. That is the "Change" voters are considering. McCain has demonstrated for years, his centrist positions. It is one reason the right wing of his party has such consternation over his selection. McCain is not endeared to conservatives - regardless how much Obama wants to portray him as such. Many conservatives refused to even vote for him as his record of bipartisan actions was too liberal for them. McCain IS far more conservative than Obama - but even Ted Kennedy and Biden and Kerry are more conservative than Obama. Liberman and Hillary are like right wingers compared to Obama. So a vote for Obama is a vote for the leftist of center any candidate in modern history. That's a scary "Change" to me. |
I'd like some evidence that Obama is anything other than a Clintonian centrist. I haven't seen any, but I'd love it if you had some. It would make it easier for me to vote for him. |
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09/15/2008 09:51:55 AM · #460 |
I guess it depends on what your priorities are. When it comes down to core domestic issues, it seems like democrats usually are ahead.
Personally, I think this election should be about energy. And Obama (Dems if you prefer), are the "greener" party. This is something that will put us over the top if we do it right.
Poll on Education
I meant to add this:
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 10:00:38. |
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09/15/2008 09:55:24 AM · #461 |
Originally posted by Flash:
even Ted Kennedy and Biden and Kerry are more conservative than Obama. Liberman and Hillary are like right wingers compared to Obama. So a vote for Obama is a vote for the leftist of center any candidate in modern history. That's a scary "Change" to me. |
According to... you?
Originally posted by Flash:
edite to add in keeping with the thread topic of taxes - maybe what Obama means when he speaks of "Change" is that after he is done taxing me, all I'll have left is change. |
Ah, so you must make more than $250,000. Congrats. |
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09/15/2008 09:58:23 AM · #462 |
| Interesting poll Metatate. Looks like today's poll on handling the situation in Iraq goes strongly the other way. |
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09/15/2008 10:03:45 AM · #463 |
Originally posted by Flash:
"[i]Before you dismiss the fact that Sarah Palin is Commander
of the Alaska National Guard consider this. Alaska is the
first line of defense in our missile interceptor defense system. The 49th
Missile Defense Battalion of the Alaska National Guard is the unit that
protects the entire nation from ballistic missile attacks. It's on
permanent active duty, unlike other Guard units... |
Governors have no oversight of missile defenses or overseas deployment of National Guard units. Both are managed by the regular U.S. military. Palin's sole action as "commander" of Alaska's National Guard was to request a couple of water trucks and some sandbags to cope with a flood. I'm pretty sure you or I are qualified enough to handle that.
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 10:04:47. |
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09/15/2008 10:05:53 AM · #464 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
even Ted Kennedy and Biden and Kerry are more conservative than Obama. Liberman and Hillary are like right wingers compared to Obama. So a vote for Obama is a vote for the leftist of center any candidate in modern history. That's a scary "Change" to me. |
According to... you?
Originally posted by Flash:
edite to add in keeping with the thread topic of taxes - maybe what Obama means when he speaks of "Change" is that after he is done taxing me, all I'll have left is change. |
Ah, so you must make more than $250,000. Congrats. |
If Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate - which he does - then every one else is "more conservative".
Regarding my income - no need for the congrats. Obama hasn't yet told the truth on his record, so why would I believe him on his proposed "Tax cut for 95% of americans" when 40% don't even pay Federal tax. If he calculates income redistribution as a tax cut, then I doubt I'll like his definitions any better when the most liberal voter in the Senate becomes Persident. |
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09/15/2008 10:06:22 AM · #465 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Interesting poll Metatate. Looks like today's poll on handling the situation in Iraq goes strongly the other way. |
In all fairness, this poll was taken on MSNBC, which happens to be Obama's non-official news headquarters. I would put as much faith in this poll as one from Fox news website. |
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09/15/2008 10:11:49 AM · #466 |
Originally posted by Flash:
If Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate - which he does - then every one else is "more conservative". |
Either he has no experience or he has a liberal voting record. You don't get it both ways. So pick one. |
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09/15/2008 10:16:21 AM · #467 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
If Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate - which he does - then every one else is "more conservative". |
Either he has no experience or he has a liberal voting record. You don't get it both ways. So pick one. |
Who said he has no experience? I've heard and read where he has no "executive" experience. He has a voting record. A sparse one. A liberal one. But a record. Most of which contains "present" votes.
Message edited by author 2008-09-15 10:18:30. |
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09/15/2008 10:20:14 AM · #468 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
In all fairness, this poll was taken on MSNBC, which happens to be Obama's non-official news headquarters. I would put as much faith in this poll as one from Fox news website. |
I guess that depends upon who you ask. "Critics have accused the network of allegedly promoting both a liberal and a conservative agenda." Much of the current "bias" appears to stem from criticism of Bush and the Republican party. Well HELLOOO... with an approval rating in the low 30's, you'd have to be biased to NOT be critical. |
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09/15/2008 10:22:12 AM · #469 |
Originally posted by Flash:
He has a voting record... Most of which contains "present" votes. |
Yet still more votes than McCain. ;-) |
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09/15/2008 10:23:44 AM · #470 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
In all fairness, this poll was taken on MSNBC, which happens to be Obama's non-official news headquarters. I would put as much faith in this poll as one from Fox news website. |
I guess that depends upon who you ask. "Critics have accused the network of allegedly promoting both a liberal and a conservative agenda." Much of the current "bias" appears to stem from criticism of Bush and the Republican party. Well HELLOOO... with an approval rating in the low 30's, you'd have to be biased to NOT be critical. |
So with congress having an approval rating of 9%, MSNBC should be all over that story. But sadly they are not. Their election anchors Olberman/Matthews have been replaced. I actually like Matthews - |
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09/15/2008 10:26:53 AM · #471 |
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09/15/2008 10:28:20 AM · #472 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
In all fairness, this poll was taken on MSNBC, which happens to be Obama's non-official news headquarters. I would put as much faith in this poll as one from Fox news website. |
I guess that depends upon who you ask. "Critics have accused the network of allegedly promoting both a liberal and a conservative agenda." Much of the current "bias" appears to stem from criticism of Bush and the Republican party. Well HELLOOO... with an approval rating in the low 30's, you'd have to be biased to NOT be critical. |
Shannon,
You know darned well that a "poll" of this nature has no statistical validity whatsoever.
You're good at stirring up the pot though, I'll give you that. |
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09/15/2008 10:36:27 AM · #473 |
Originally posted by Flash:
If Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate - which he does - then every one else is "more conservative". |
Riiiight. Note that McCain wasn't ranked at all because he missed too many senate votes.
Originally posted by Flash:
why would I believe him on his proposed "Tax cut for 95% of americans" when 40% don't even pay Federal tax. If he calculates income redistribution as a tax cut, then I doubt I'll like his definitions any better when the most liberal voter in the Senate becomes Persident. |
If 95% of Americans pay less (or receive help if they didn't make enough to pay taxes), then his statement is accurate, though I'm sure the wealthy appreciate your heartfelt concern for their plight. |
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09/15/2008 10:37:28 AM · #474 |
Seems like he had enough judgement and foresight to vote "present" so that he would not have to defend actually standing for something. Regarding foresight - isn't that like have an extra sense? One that allows you to predict the future? One that gives you an extra edge?
One of the first things I look for in a manager is one who will make a decision. I can teach them to make good ones over bad ones, but some people are simply afraid to make them in the first place. Those are the managers I can't afford. Too many present votes indicates an unwillingenss to be held accountable. That is not the kind of manager I want running my country - I mean company. |
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09/15/2008 10:38:43 AM · #475 |
Originally posted by shanksware:
Shannon, You know darned well that a "poll" of this nature has no statistical validity whatsoever. |
Of course I do, but what's good for the goose... ;-P |
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