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09/10/2008 12:09:29 PM · #251 |
Well, no. She is no dog and she does hunt.
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09/10/2008 12:17:01 PM · #252 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... It's like the campaigns are run by a bunch of second graders at recess. |
I'm waiting for the full-on food fight in the cafeteria. |
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09/10/2008 12:26:27 PM · #253 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
The one reply I would make is to read the reaction comments to the article I linked. It is telling of how the perception is playing out. Regardless of whether you agree with the respondents, their replys represent some statistcal representation of the voting block at large. |
13 responses on a Fox News site is NOT a statistcal representation, much less that of the voting block at large. |
Sure it is. Each reply is statistically representative of others who chose not to reply but feel the same or similar. Just like calling 600 likely voters is statistically representative of "x" opinion. |
Statistically representative of Fox News readers, maybe. 13 samples is pretty small number to represent a population It's certainly not a statistical representation of the voting population as a whole, but rather some biased segment of that population (e.g. Those who read/watch Fox , feel strongly enough about the site to sign up and who care enough about that particular news item to take the time to post.) |
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09/10/2008 12:27:49 PM · #254 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Each reply is statistically representative of others who chose not to reply but feel the same or similar. Just like calling 600 likely voters is statistically representative of "x" opinion. |
OK, then the 423 responses here should be even more representative of voter opinion. |
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09/10/2008 12:31:49 PM · #255 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
terms do over time take on different meanings and associations. The word "cool" was a reference to temperature before it came to be associated with "hip" and "groovy". The term "lipstick" has become associated with Palin since her VP acceptance speech... |
Indeed... the term "American" was once viewed positively in other countries before it came to be associated with military aggression and torture.
It's a fairly common expression, and I'm sure you know McCain himself has used the exact same phrase at least twice in the past year... before he ever met Palin. It should be readily apparent that Obama's use was in reference to calling the same old policies "change" (not even referring to a person), and it would be disingenuous for the GOP to cry foul over use of a word they "associate" with themselves when they continue to play Barracuda against the wishes of Heart. :-/ |
Palin compared herself to a dog in her acceptance speech.
It's OK to call her a dog, but not a pig? |
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09/10/2008 12:41:50 PM · #256 |
| What I want to know is if they cause this much fuss about a slight that may or may not have been intentional. How would a McCain/Palin administration react to someone like the leader of Iran calling them the "Great Satan" or worse, burning them in effigy? A temper tantrum in the Oval Office? Maybe breaking down for a good long cry with their blankie? |
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09/10/2008 12:47:55 PM · #257 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
I guess the phrase "that dog dont hunt" is a sexist reference to Pailin also now. |
Not necessarily. But when Obama referenced Palin as a "moose shooter" instead of a hunter, he did nothing to endear himself to those hunters that might be trying to give him the benefit of the doubt on 2nd amendment concerns. A voting block that Bill and Hillary know all too well. |
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09/10/2008 12:50:28 PM · #258 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
Each reply is statistically representative of others who chose not to reply but feel the same or similar. Just like calling 600 likely voters is statistically representative of "x" opinion. |
OK, then the 423 responses here should be even more representative of voter opinion. |
They are - as the sample size is larger. Whether it is the correct opinion will be determined on Nov the 4th. |
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09/10/2008 12:59:02 PM · #259 |
In any election, the only poll that counts is the one on election day.
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09/10/2008 01:10:03 PM · #260 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
What I want to know is if they cause this much fuss about a slight that may or may not have been intentional... |
The fuss itself is the campaign strategy, and it's brilliant. It doesn't matter if the claims are true because most people won't bother to find out, and any controversy raised in the news distracts from the issues. |
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09/10/2008 01:16:36 PM · #261 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Statistically representative of Fox News readers, maybe. 13 samples is pretty small number to represent a population It's certainly not a statistical representation of the voting population as a whole, but rather some biased segment of that population (e.g. Those who read/watch Fox , feel strongly enough about the site to sign up and who care enough about that particular news item to take the time to post.) |
I never claimed it was a statistical representation of the whole - only that it was a representation of some voters - voters whom both candidates want voting for them - which specifically begs the question why would Barack chance alienating a potential voting block based on a known associative term like "lipstick"? I don't think he would intentionally and I suspect that if this story has legs, you will see some kind of a clarification from the Obama camp - directly to female voters - instead of their current tract of defending the statement by first copping that it is used in Washington (presisely the place Palin supporters aren't fond of) and 2 blaming McCain for using the same phrase. My point was/is that McCain's use of it preceeded the association with Palin - thus it is in reality a separate event - akin to using the term cool before it was associated with hip and groovy. Lipstick has a different association now. Right or wrong, doesn't change the perception I and others had when we heard Obama use it. |
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09/10/2008 01:28:13 PM · #262 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Well, no. She is no dog and she does hunt. |
"The only difference between a pitbull and a hockey mom - lipstick" ... so if anything having to do with lipstick is off limits ... so is any reference to dogs
this is so contrived and stupid
Message edited by author 2008-09-10 13:30:27. |
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09/10/2008 01:41:44 PM · #263 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
this is so contrived and stupid |
First rule of marketing: Know your target audience. |
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09/10/2008 01:43:30 PM · #264 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by nomad469:
this is so contrived and stupid |
First rule of marketing: Know your target audience. |
You calling the American public contrived and studpid? ;oP
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09/10/2008 01:47:47 PM · #265 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by nomad469:
this is so contrived and stupid |
First rule of marketing: Know your target audience. |
You calling the American public contrived and studpid? ;oP |
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. - H. L. Mencken
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09/10/2008 01:52:25 PM · #266 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I never claimed it was a statistical representation of the whole - only that it was a representation of some voters - voters whom both candidates want voting for them - which specifically begs the question why would Barack chance alienating a potential voting block based on a known associative term like "lipstick"? I don't think he would intentionally and I suspect that if this story has legs, you will see some kind of a clarification from the Obama camp - directly to female voters - instead of their current tract of defending the statement by first copping that it is used in Washington (presisely the place Palin supporters aren't fond of) and 2 blaming McCain for using the same phrase. |
Since we're looking for "clarification," McCain might do well to clarify -- directly to female voters -- why he called his wife a "cunt" and why he tells rape jokes. And while he's at it, maybe he could clarify for us his entire dismal voting record on issues important to women like pay equity and workplace discrimination, just to name a few.
Gimme a break. |
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09/10/2008 01:53:35 PM · #267 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by nomad469:
this is so contrived and stupid |
First rule of marketing: Know your target audience. |
You calling the American public contrived and studpid? ;oP |
About half the American public, apparently. |
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09/10/2008 01:56:40 PM · #268 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
What I want to know is if they cause this much fuss about a slight that may or may not have been intentional... |
The fuss itself is the campaign strategy, and it's brilliant. It doesn't matter if the claims are true because most people won't bother to find out, and any controversy raised in the news distracts from the issues. |
Oh yes, better to trade insults and fake outrage than actually discuss issues and character. |
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09/10/2008 01:58:06 PM · #269 |
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09/10/2008 02:00:59 PM · #270 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Oh yes, better to trade insults and fake outrage than actually discuss issues and character. |
Note that there was no outrage over Obama's point regarding change. Only that he used the word 'lipstick' *gasp* as a description of dressing up the same old policies. |
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09/10/2008 02:05:49 PM · #271 |
To be fair, several points in that article are based on internet rumors. |
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09/10/2008 02:15:19 PM · #272 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
I guess the phrase "that dog dont hunt" is a sexist reference to Palin also now. |
I was going to call it "making mountains out of molehills", but you know, that's probably a veiled reference to her breasts.
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09/10/2008 02:18:39 PM · #273 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
The fuss itself is the campaign strategy, and it's brilliant. It doesn't matter if the claims are true because most people won't bother to find out, and any controversy raised in the news distracts from the issues. |
Ain't that the truth.
Courtesy of CBS News, here are some other "lipstick on a pig" references for you to consider:
"I think they put some lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig." ΓΆ€“ John McCain, in reference to Hillary Clinton's health care plan, last year.
"George Bush has given a mission to General Petraeus, and he has done his best to try to figure out how to put lipstick on a pig." ΓΆ€“ Barack Obama, last year.
"Or as we say out in our home state of Wyoming, you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but it's still a pig." ΓΆ€“ Dick Cheney, 2004.
"It's all about withdrawal or not withdrawal, okay? I mean that's what it's all about. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig." ΓΆ€“ John McCain, last year.
"You can put lipstick and earrings on a hog and call it Monique, but it's still a pig." ΓΆ€“ Texas Gov. Ann Richards.
"John Kerry tries to put a bunch of fancy, fancy talk...but there is nothing you can do to really -- to really obscure that record. You can try, though. And in Wyoming, we've got a saying for what it is when you keep trying to make something that's not so good look good, we call it putting lipstick on a pig." ΓΆ€“ Lynne Cheney, 2004.
"It gets down to whether you support what's being done in this new strategy or you don't. You can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig in my view." ΓΆ€“ John McCain, last year.
Message edited by author 2008-09-10 14:28:11. |
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09/10/2008 02:40:40 PM · #274 |
I hope you are not representing this as an example of your sound research and basis for your informed choice. |
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09/10/2008 03:03:21 PM · #275 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I hope you are not representing this as an example of your sound research and basis for your informed choice. |
Check this it seems to be from a reputable source, Time. It was sited in the article Judith posted.
"Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor."
Oh yeah that is who I want a heartbeat away from the big chair.
Message edited by author 2008-09-10 15:03:50. |
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